Immigration

[Rjk]

Why is it that even within the EU we could more than half immigration tomorrow, as the majority are from outside the EU, but no government will?

Why is it that all rich countries are actively encouraging immigration?

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ed-immigrants/

We are getting old as a nation, and we need working age people to pay for us.
Even better if they stay for a few years and then go home before they are old.

I don't think immigration could be any different outside of the EU.

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

Why is it that even within the EU we could more than half immigration tomorrow, as the majority are from outside the EU, but no government will?



Why is it that all rich countries are actively encouraging immigration?

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ed-immigrants/

We are getting old as a nation, and we need working age people to pay for us.
Even better if they stay for a few years and then go home before they are old.

I don't think immigration could be any different outside of the EU.

http://fortune.com/2015/09/08/germany-migrant-crisis/

I'm worried that pensions will become unsustainable at a time when I need them. Germany recognise the issue, and are actively seeking to address the issue. I've never been sure what the problem is - people talk about a drain on resources. The Government has always said migration brings in more in tax revenues than it takes out in benefits etc.

If that is the case, then surely the issue is about the lack of investment into schools, hospitals, roads and policing - and not about people draining the resources we have?

[Igovernor]

It's not the working immigrants that are a drain it's the ones coming in that don't work, like all the criminals/ economic immigrants etc. Most of the immigrants from outside the EU are skilled or professional/qualified workers where as the majority from the EU and those beyond that have arrived in the EU etc are not

[Wales-Bales]

The issue is not immigration, it is uncontrolled immigration. People will still come here to work, but on a points based system like they do in Australia, as opposed to the open borders that exist now.

[adz-a32]

The issue is not immigration, it is uncontrolled immigration. People will still come here to work, but on a points based system like they do in Australia, as opposed to the open borders that exist now.

Australia has a higher proportion of immigrants compared to the population tho 🙄

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0089281b4fc8c

[Wales-Bales]

Australia has a higher proportion of immigrants compared to the population tho ��

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0089281b4fc8c

It's managed tho, not a free-for-all

[Vindec]

Australia has a higher proportion of immigrants compared to the population tho ��

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0089281b4fc8c

The essential point is that Australia can choose how many can come and the skills they need to fill skill shortages. There is a skills list and if you don't match the requirements don't bother to apply. There is absolutely zero chance of getting in for those who are jobless or do not possess a skill that Australia needs. The reason Australia wants to attract immigrants and have higher number is due to the fact that they need certain skills for their economy to grow. But as they are in control they can turn off the tap when they choose.

[adz-a32]

It would be interesting to see the costs of leaving, implementing new trade deals and systems vs the costs of those that "don't work". Btw I thought economic migrants would work

[Rjk]

It's not the working immigrants that are a drain it's the ones coming in that don't work, like all the criminals/ economic immigrants etc. Most of the immigrants from outside the EU are skilled or professional/qualified workers where as the majority from the EU and those beyond that have arrived in the EU etc are not

The vast majority coming from the EU have a job to come to. If you were choosing somewhere in the EU to come and live off benefits then it wouldn't be here surely?

[lardy]

It's not the working immigrants that are a drain it's the ones coming in that don't work, like all the criminals/ economic immigrants etc. Most of the immigrants from outside the EU are skilled or professional/qualified workers where as the majority from the EU and those beyond that have arrived in the EU etc are not

The issue is not immigration, it is uncontrolled immigration. People will still come here to work, but on a points based system like they do in Australia, as opposed to the open borders that exist now.

People keep saying EU migration is uncontrolled. There are rules and my understanding is that you can go to another member state for three months. After that you can only stay if you have a job, you're a student, you're being supported by someone or if you apply for an extension as a job seeker (key word being apply).

We can also refuse EU migrants or family members on the grounds of, amongst other things, public security. Just having a criminal conviction doesn't mean you're automatically refused but the UK can use that as a reason to deny entry.

There are no doubt EU migrants who are here despite falling foul of the rules (Citizen Rights Directive if anyone's interested) but it's also worth remembering that the UK has the responsibility to check. In other words, if people need to be chucked out then it's up to us and not the EU to do it.

[lardy]

Some other stats. The 2015 International Passenger Survey (dudes with clipboards in airports) found that 44% of EU migrants came because they had a job and 32% came to look for work (15% studying).

The UK Labour Force survey says that of around 3m EU migrants in the UK, 2.15m are working (which excludes self employment).

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

It's not the working immigrants that are a drain it's the ones coming in that don't work, like all the criminals/ economic immigrants etc. Most of the immigrants from outside the EU are skilled or professional/qualified workers where as the majority from the EU and those beyond that have arrived in the EU etc are not

Some facts to back this up please.

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

It's managed tho, not a free-for-all

But there are, per head, more people immigrating into Australia than immigrating into the UK. If the UK adopted the Australian system, and if the effects on immigration were the same as those experienced in Australia - then the number of people coming into the UK would increase not decrease.

[Croesy Blue]

It's managed tho, not a free-for-all

If we had the same points based system Austrailia does our immigration would increase.

The rules of the EU allow us to control immigration from within the Eu quite well, it's the immigration from outside the eu we need to deal with.

[lardy]

If anyone is wavering towards voting Leave because of the uncontrolled immigration of criminals from the EU, I'd ask you to consider this:

As I said above, there are rules and it's the UK responsibility to properly identify those who fall foul of them and prevent entry. If we leave the EU, do you think that funding is suddenly going to be given to our border controls to help them do this job properly?

[blue matt]

As I said above, there are rules and it's the UK responsibility to properly identify those who fall foul of them and prevent entry. If we leave the EU, do you think that funding is suddenly going to be given to our border controls to help them do this job properly?

Why wouldnt it be ? ? ??

do you think the leave campaign ( dont forget its a all party effort on both sides ) would have gone to that much trouble and then think " Ah fook it, lets now spend anything on Border control " ? ? ?

of course we will spend money on border control, why wouldnt we ? ? ?

[AfricanBluebird]

It's not the working immigrants that are a drain it's the ones coming in that don't work, like all the criminals/ economic immigrants etc. Most of the immigrants from outside the EU are skilled or professional/qualified workers where as the majority from the EU and those beyond that have arrived in the EU etc are not

We have benefitted economically from economic migration of course. Immigrants are less likely to receive benefits than British people and net contribution is positive.

Do we have a perfect system? No we don't. Is coming out of the EU the solution.. Absolutely not.

[lardy]

Why wouldnt it be ? ? ??

do you think the leave campaign ( dont forget its a all party effort on both sides ) would have gone to that much trouble and then think " Ah fook it, lets now spend anything on Border control " ? ? ?

of course we will spend money on border control, why wouldnt we ? ? ?

Immigration has been a big point in general elections, hence the rise of UKIP. If that hasn't spurred more money to go onto border control then I'd need a more convincing argument than 'why wouldn't it be?' to be confident it would change.

I'm interested that you seem to think the Leave campaign will be running the country after the referendum.

[Croesy Blue]

Why wouldnt it be ? ? ??

do you think the leave campaign ( dont forget its a all party effort on both sides ) would have gone to that much trouble and then think " Ah fook it, lets now spend anything on Border control " ? ? ?

of course we will spend money on border control, why wouldnt we ? ? ?

If they want to negotiate a trade deal with the EU I doubt that much will change.

I don't think money needs to spent on controlling the borders more on the rules that allows people to come here.

[blue matt]

Immigration has been a big point in general elections, hence the rise of UKIP. If that hasn't spurred more money to go onto border control then I'd need a more convincing argument than 'why wouldn't it be?' to be confident it would change.

I'm interested that you seem to think the Leave campaign will be running the country after the referendum.

Did i say the leave campaign will be running the country ? ? ? No, BUT they will be part of whatever government is in power ( thus i said " dont forget its a all party effort on both sides " )

I am afraid your post just looks more propaganda for the stay campaign, oh look, if we leave, we will have no border control, so voting leave will not stop immigration of criminals

[blue matt]

If they want to negotiate a trade deal with the EU I doubt that much will change.

I don't think money needs to spent on controlling the borders more on the rules that allows people to come here.

indeed, the rule that allow people to come in, yet in the EU we cannot set them rules ( for EU nationals )

[lardy]

Did i say the leave campaign will be running the country ? ? ? No, BUT they will be part of whatever government is in power ( thus i said " dont forget its a all party effort on both sides " )

I am afraid your post just looks more propaganda for the stay campaign, oh look, if we leave, we will have no border control, so voting leave will not stop immigration of criminals

I'm sorry you didn't understand it.

We will always have border control. We have border control now. I'm correcting people who say that we currently don't.

[Croesy Blue]

indeed, the rule that allow people to come in, yet in the EU we cannot set them rules ( for EU nationals )

Yes we can 3 months stay and if they don't find a job they have to go home.

[TH63]

indeed, the rule that allow people to come in, yet in the EU we cannot set them rules ( for EU nationals )

Whilst we are in the EU, we have a say on how those rules are set. We also have a veto on new member states.

Leave, and we lose that veto and we lose our influence over the rules.

UKIP are playing on, what I believe to be, inherent British mistrust of foreigners.

They are telling you about how bad things are, they're telling you who to blame, but they're not offering any real solutions, other than the one that suits their agenda to seize power I.e Leave, the EU, the magic bullet that will solve all your problems. Except it won't.

[Croesy Blue]

It's isn't even a mistrust of foreigners, most British people like to shift the blame of why their life hasn't turned out how they would have liked.

So they pick an easy scapegoat; immigrants, the government, the man keeping them down etc.