Jezza got stuffed regarding the confidence vote

[surge]

I don't know whether he should stay or go, but I don't think those now calling for his head have ever truly backed Corbyn and have been waiting for their moment. How can you be a party where the MP's never truly agreed or cared what the members voted for or, looking at the last batch of local elections, a lot of the public voted for?

Jeremy Corbyn was the one saying that Labour needed to be a broad church during the leadership race but it seems those mostly to the right of him in his party want none of that and are far more interested in power by any means (see the guardian opinion piece today which asks whether Hilary is a neo-con) than standing up for Labour values.

I don't think Corbyn can win an election when people talk about him "missing an open goal" in PMQ's and celebrate the Eagle who did it because she made cheap jibes at the Tories, but I don't think that's what our politics should be about and I don't think you should either. The House of Commons should not be about fist-pumping cuts which will cause many sleepless nights or dropping in words because you've lost a bet....Corbyn may not reflect your political views but our political landscape becoming a little more Corbyn-like would be a fantastic thing.

Or, you know, we could just stab him in the back because he cares more about Labour values than his media image and thus we don't think he can win an election.

[life on mars]

The fact it has even been suggested is a kind of "we still have no idea", i'm just flummoxed by it all, we desperately IMO, need a labour government, and the leader may not be the best leader but a leader that appeals to the public, it seems that the public doesn't vote on policy, but on looks, spin and bullshit, get it wrong and we may be stuck with the Tories for another 2 terms minimum, although this particular term post Brexit might be a poisoned chalice.

"" a leader that appeals to the public "" = Blair ? didn't he manage one of the biggest political landslide victory known in recent times ?

[Heathblue]

"" a leader that appeals to the public "" = Blair ? didn't he manage one of the biggest political landslide victory known in recent times ?

He did, he must have appealed to the public and whilst I voted for him, he's now probably, most my disliked prime minister of my time, I put him below Thatcher

[Wales-Bales]

He did, he must have appealed to the public and whilst I voted for him, he's now probably, most my disliked prime minister of my time, I put him below Thatcher

I wouldn't even rate him that highly.

[Llanedeyrnblue]

I reckon Corbyn's a a Tory plant if he isn't he's certainly unelectable

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Is this your opinion or is it a fact? How do you know?
It seems that this massive support he has amongst the labour electorate didn't seem to work in the Referendum. What makes you think it will work now?

Around 3/4 of Labour supporters voted remain.

[Wales-Bales]

After the recent uprising of the plebs during the referendum, the establishment must be terrified of Corbyn and he needs to be stopped, either by the Blue Tories or by the Red Tories. It's one man versus the whole political class who can smell trouble ahead.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Labour needs a slightly left wing leader, someone who will stand up for the worst off, the disabled and the working man. Someone with some humanity and isn't a career politician. It's interesting that of all the resigned cabinet ministers, all of them voted with the Tories on cuts to tax credits and payments for the disabled.

The best thing that could happen for Labour is for the Tory light brigade to **** off, the ones who are only there for power. That'll stop the infighting within the party. If Labour are united, the right wing media hell bent on destroying Corbyn and any form of socialism will have less to feed on.

[xsnaggle]

Around 3/4 of Labour supporters voted remain.

How do you know that?
All votes are secret. No one knows who voted how, it is all conjecture and numbers made up by polsters.
In a number of elections, including the last one they got it wrong ad the basic reason was what people tell them, and what those people actually do in the privacy of the voting booth are two different things.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

How do you know that?
All votes are secret. No one knows who voted how, it is all conjecture and numbers made up by polsters.
In a number of elections, including the last one they got it wrong ad the basic reason was what people tell them, and what those people actually do in the privacy of the voting booth are two different things.

Are you suggesting Labour voters were secret Brexiters? I don't. In fact, of Labour supporters I know, all of them voted remain.

[Packerman]

Are you suggesting Labour voters were secret Brexiters? I don't. In fact, of Labour supporters I know, all of them voted remain.

so how did the leave campaign do so well in the labour heartlands such as the north east and the welsh valleys, they hardly have any tory voters as labour normally sweep the board,

[surge]

2 pro-Corbyn messages on facebook and the second one is definitely my favourite:

Every single member who resigned this week abstained on the 2015 Welfare Bill which lead to poor and disabled paying for £12 million more in cuts.

35 MPs nominated Jeremy last year and 40 stood with him today – an increase in parliamentary support if anything.

[surge]

I reckon Corbyn's a a Tory plant if he isn't he's certainly unelectable

How? If you suppose he would have preferred to vote leave then he stands with 52% of the voting population which is more than the 37% Cameron won the last election with. It's just this week that one poll shows Labour moving ahead of the Tories.

[Wales-Bales]

so how did the leave campaign do so well in the labour heartlands such as the north east and the welsh valleys, they hardly have any tory voters as labour normally sweep the board,

Nothing is what it appears to be There has been so much manipulation of the facts by both the politicians and the media, that most people don't have a clue about what is really going on. If anything, the confusion has been ramped up since the results became known. It's an all out propaganda war that we are witnessing.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

so how did the leave campaign do so well in the labour heartlands such as the north east and the welsh valleys, they hardly have any tory voters as labour normally sweep the board,

UKIP's vote in Wales rose dramatically since 2011 and no doubt has continued to rise since this year's Welsh government elections. A combination of the UKIP and Tory vote was 1% less than Labour's in the WAG election but would certainly have risen with more support for UKIP at Labour's expense. Labour heartlands have less Plaid support than across Wales.

I still reckon around 75% across the UK sounds about right, dropping to maybe 60%-70% in Wales. That would be enough in Labour heartlands, with the combined Tory and UKIP votes to see a leave verdict.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

What comes first as a Labour MP

1. Representing the constituents that elected you

or

2. Representing the Labour party members wishes


Because at the moment you cant seem to have both

There is a crossover where members are constituents. It's impossible to represent all constituents who vote for you as they'll have different views on certain things. I have no problem with MPs not agreeing with all policies set out by their parties. Party members have the opportunities to vote and shape the party but, again, there'll be MPs who disagree with somethings decided by members.

It's hardly a case of either/or.

[tommy31]

UKIP's vote in Wales rose dramatically since 2011 and no doubt has continued to rise since this year's Welsh government elections. A combination of the UKIP and Tory vote was 1% less than Labour's in the WAG election but would certainly have risen with more support for UKIP at Labour's expense. Labour heartlands have less Plaid support than across Wales.

I still reckon around 75% across the UK sounds about right, dropping to maybe 60%-70% in Wales. That would be enough in Labour heartlands, with the combined Tory and UKIP votes to see a leave verdict.

The Labour heartlands aren't full of Labour thinking people though. That's our problem here. We have the Labour vote with the UKIP mindset.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

The Labour heartlands aren't full of Labour thinking people though. That's our problem here. We have the Labour vote with the UKIP mindset.

There is that as well, coupled with a small desire to give Labour a bloody nose over the Welsh Government.

I think there's potential for Plaid to do well out of this referendum, especially if Scotland holds another independence vote and leaves the UK. Wales will be truly in the shit if we're reliant on a Tory government in Westminster and an ineffective Labour government at the Senedd for years. I believe Welsh people would ultimately prefer joining Scotland and a united Ireland in some Celtic coalition in the EU than being stranded on its own in the UK being strangled by England.

[tommy31]

There is that as well, coupled with a small desire to give Labour a bloody nose over the Welsh Government.

I think there's potential for Plaid to do well out of this referendum, especially if Scotland holds another independence vote and leaves the UK. Wales will be truly in the shit if we're reliant on a Tory government in Westminster and an ineffective Labour government at the Senedd for years. I believe Welsh people would ultimately prefer joining Scotland and a united Ireland in some Celtic coalition in the EU than being stranded on its own in the UK being strangled by England.

I was also optimistic about this before last thursday. Time will tell, but I hope you are right.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I was also optimistic about this before last thursday. Time will tell, but I hope you are right.

You know my stance on Welsh independence but since the UK voted to leave the EU, I have reassessed my opinion somewhat, especially with murmurings of Scotland and Northern Ireland possibly leaving the UK at some point.

[jon1959]

You know my stance on Welsh independence but since the UK voted to leave the EU, I have reassessed my opinion somewhat, especially with murmurings of Scotland and Northern Ireland possibly leaving the UK at some point.

Don't forget Gibraltar.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Don't forget Gibraltar.

I probably will once they've left.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Juncker has said that obviously any new countries wanting to join the EU MUST adopt the Euro and what's made it made worse for the remaining EU countries not in the Euro is that the EU commission has said now that the UK is leaving they must also put plans in place to join the Euro - it's part of the 5 presidents report that roadmaps the EU policy direction.

Given that - are you sure you still want an Independent Wales to join up ? just so you can get some EU money in return - Im not sure the rest of Wales would, but I may well be wrong.

It's more about sovereignty and not being controlled by England.

[tommy31]

It's more about sovereignty and not being controlled by England.

This is true. By the time it comes around, the question might as well be:
What do you want to be:
1) Wales
2) West Anglia

[Eric the Half a Bee]

This is true. By the time it comes around, the question might as well be:
What do you want to be:
1) Wales
2) West Anglia

Actually, what the feck is going on here? We're supposed to argue about this at length!!!!