Reply With QuoteIt seems a mighty dangerous and unsettling thing to have offered a referendum built on nonsense from all sides promising changes that just cannot happen.
What use is a referendum if there is no leeway to change things anyway?
| + Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results |
Does anyone belive that any new trade deal will not come with a commitment to accept migrant labour movement between the countries, if so will we see a new referendum to exit the rest of the world.
It seems a mighty dangerous and unsettling thing to have offered a referendum built on nonsense from all sides promising changes that just cannot happen.
What use is a referendum if there is no leeway to change things anyway?
Indeed, what we will now see is Commonwealth migrants instead of European, one thing I can guarantee is we still have migrants and immigration, cant wait for Boris's first defense of the figures as Foreign Secretary , as a London mayor he fully knows that large cities cannot operate without migrants .Originally Posted by Blue in the Face
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-free-movement
Shocker!!
"Hollande’s comments suggest it will be difficult for the UK to fulfil the desire of Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, and other prominent leave figures during the referendum campaign, who favoured access to the single market while imposing limits on immigration."
When was immigration uncontrolled?
My point was that in the UK Immigration IS Controlled.
Non EEA citizens need a visa, admittedly EEA citizens don't, but we still have passport control.
As the UK never signed up to Schengen it had never lost control of its borders anyway.
Why do you think you pass border controls on leaving and returning to the UK ?
Just one of the " Leave " big lies.
Exactly, I've given up trying to correct those who say we had (or still have) uncontrolled immigration.
Is that what uncontrolled immigration is to you?
It wasn't a lie, it was a con, and the leave campaign used immigrants as there flag pole fear message, once the other arguements were losses.
May believes, probably rightly so, that the vote out was a clear democratic wish to stop the free movement of people. So I cant see the free movement of people being agreed, even though european nations say it must be. I know they have little interest in democratic voices. But I Can't see MAy backing down.
There will be a quasi free trade agreement, which will be somewhere between free trade, and the normal trade agreements. And there will be some free movement of europeans, but limited work access.
But EU movement was not controlled. AND NonEU citizens from within the EU could still freely move, and work as an EU citizen because some other country on different principles to what we would apply.
500,000 new people a year is uncontrolled. I struggle to see how you could see that as controlled migration?
EU citizens could only stay in the UK after three months if they were a student, had a job, were being supported by someone or apply for an extension as a job seeker.
The 2015 International Passenger Survey (dudes with clipboards in airports) found that 41% of EU migrants came because they had a job and 32% came to look for work (a further 15% studying).
The UK Labour Force survey says that of around 3m EU migrants in the UK, 2.15m are working (which excludes self employment).
In short, far from being uncontrolled, the vast majority have come to the UK because we need them.
Last edited by lardy; 28-07-16 at 13:11.
"Far from retreating into isolation, the UK economy now looks more open than ever. It is gradually dawning on all but the most stubborn in the Remain camp that the world still wants to do business with an independent UK — and that, freed from having to tag along with EU trade deals, this country is now able to negotiate mutually favourable arrangements with fast-growing economies such as India and China. Meanwhile, the EU’s problems continue. Standard and Poor’s, one of the world’s top credit ratings agencies, warned recently that the EU is ‘unsustainable in its current form’.
This is precisely the concern that persuaded 52 per cent of Brits that our long-term future is best served outside the EU. Nobody doubted that economic turbulence would follow, but the case for optimism far outweighs the case for pessimism. Brexit is neither an economic drag nor a stimulus: it is simply the removal of a constraint. What Britain now goes on to achieve depends entirely on the vision and ambition of those in power. Politicians and businesses should snap out of their sulk, and see Brexit for what it is: the greatest opportunity ever handed to a government by an electorate." The Spectator
Spot on. Time for all Remnants to stop whinging and just let's make use of this great opportunity. We're free of the dead hand of the EU. Cause for celebration if ever there was one.
And thats still uncontrolled even having a job. The reason why we are the only major economy to have wages falling in the last decade is the 2million people that have come here to work, and keep our wages suppressed.
Our wages have (under 1 measure that is not wholly accurate) fallen by nearly 10%, whilst germany have risen 10%.
Yes some migration is needed and will always be needed, but the sheer numbers have simply been considerably more than is required, and the average working person has paid for it. Missing out on some £4,000 in wages.
They have not come because we need them, they have come because they need us. We need a tiny number of the migrants that have actually come.
But Germany are under the same migration rules as us? Even more 'uncontrolled', if you insist on using the word wrongly.
So I'm a little confused how this can be the reason our wages are down and theirs are up. I'm sure you can help me out.
Can you link me to the 4 grand stat please? Ta in advance.
Simple maths. lost 10%, when we could of gained 10%, so assuming a 20% rise in average wage. Which is £24k here in Wales, £28 across the UK, gives you £4,800 and £5,400. Put a little less than the calculated figure as its a bit of a generalisation But when you take into account we had less austerity than the EU, we have a stronger recovery than any of the european nations, and employment levels are high, it would suggest that 2m cheap labour individuals coming in has suppressed wages significantly.
Last edited by Barry Dragon; 29-07-16 at 10:11.
This just doesn't make sense. If you're assuming that 99.9% of EU workers in the UK are cheap labour (which common sense and experience should tell you is miles from the truth), then you need to be looking at that area of wage and not average.
And this one factor really doesn't explain why UK wages should drop when the same factor affects Germany and they've seen a rise (by your figures). That should again tell you that the reason is elsewhere.
Wages rise in Germany, wages fall in uk, Germany has higher immigration than uk.
= Blame immigration for wages falling in uk.
Baffling. Broken record.
Germany has only had higher immigration for 1 year. We had higher immigration for 6 years previous.
Haa Germany had no immigration? Still waiting for an explanation as to why immigration makes our wages fall when it makes german wages rise.
When I studied research/stats in the very first lesson we were told correlation does not mean causation. That certainly comes to mind in this thread.
Last edited by lardy; 29-07-16 at 22:02.
I don't think that is true either, do you just make this stuff up on the spot?
I am pretty sure net migration to Germany has been higher for at least the last 3 years, in 2014 I am pretty sure it was significantly higher and obviously in 2015.
There is a higher percentage of foreign nationals living in Germany than the UK.
Thing is, 'higher immigration' could mean anything. It could be a number or percentage comparison with each other, it could be a comparison with itself of the previous year. It could mean compared to the eu average.
Posting Permissions