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Thread: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

  1. #26

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    It wasn't a lie, it was a con, and the leave campaign used immigrants as there flag pole fear message, once the other arguements were losses.
    What is the difference between a " lie " and a " con " ? In my book they are both the same.

    Brexit campaigners were lying con artists.

  2. #27

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWales View Post
    What is the difference between a " lie " and a " con " ? In my book they are both the same.

    Brexit campaigners were lying con artists.
    Indeed ,should imagine that sits with both sides ,just a play on words really, you only have to follow the threads to see how words and their interpretation becomes lost.

    My point really was deals come with strings, most trade deals come with labour movement, we need trade and migrants, therefore we will see very little change in figures, I would be shocked if anyone gets extra wages because of brexit, in fact I can see a few of the European workers rights being stripped out.

    I do wonder sometimes if this was the conspiracy to end conspiracies, Cameron involved, knew he was going anyway, reward Boris, allow May in , stop in their tracks Gove ,Farage , damage and exploit Labour with Jezzies light european views, allow UKIP to further damage Labour heartlands, force EU to change its policy to free movement.

    There we have it politics at its best.

  3. #28

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    There's no great mystery why the majority who voted to leave did so, they were fed up with the way their communities were being transformed by mass immigration. Yes, both sides told fibs, but the remainers won the lie-o-meter competition by a light year. The biggest porkies of all were made by Cameron who stated several times that in the event of a leave vote the Article 50 notification would be sent immediately.

    It'll never be triggered: so all fans of the supremacy of EU law, multiculturalism, sky-high house prices and rental, depressed wages, jam-packed hospitals and a fortnight's wait for a doctor's appointment can rest easy safe in the knowledge that things will stay the same in spite of all the fake theatre we will witness in the years ahead.

  4. #29

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    But the stats have shown areas of lowest immigration voted leave whilst cities with lots of immigration voted remain?

  5. #30

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    With the exception of London, every region of England voted to exit. Wales did too. Northern Ireland voted to stay (border concerns) with Scotland (SNP still riding a wave, plus the Jocks are not that bright).

  6. #31

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    But the stats have shown areas of lowest immigration voted leave whilst cities with lots of immigration voted remain?
    Maybe the areas with low immigration wanted to keep it that way?

    Looking at some of the problems faced by areas of high immigration, it's not hard to see why.

  7. #32

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    But the stats have shown areas of lowest immigration voted leave whilst cities with lots of immigration voted remain?
    Which would seem to indicate that immigration was a mainstream media issue and not one that people really took into consideration when deciding whether they wanted unaccountable, un-elected officials, deriving more and more power for themselves in the future.

  8. #33

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Lecter View Post
    Maybe the areas with low immigration wanted to keep it that way?

    Looking at some of the problems faced by areas of high immigration, it's not hard to see why.
    What areas with high immigration have suffered? London, Manchester and Birmingham are in a better shape than they've ever been and have some of the highest immigration in the country.

    In fact the big cities need immigration to carry on growing.

  9. #34

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by jackrabbit View Post
    "Far from retreating into isolation, the UK economy now looks more open than ever. It is gradually dawning on all but the most stubborn in the Remain camp that the world still wants to do business with an independent UK — and that, freed from having to tag along with EU trade deals, this country is now able to negotiate mutually favourable arrangements with fast-growing economies such as India and China. Meanwhile, the EU’s problems continue. Standard and Poor’s, one of the world’s top credit ratings agencies, warned recently that the EU is ‘unsustainable in its current form’.

    This is precisely the concern that persuaded 52 per cent of Brits that our long-term future is best served outside the EU. Nobody doubted that economic turbulence would follow, but the case for optimism far outweighs the case for pessimism. Brexit is neither an economic drag nor a stimulus: it is simply the removal of a constraint. What Britain now goes on to achieve depends entirely on the vision and ambition of those in power. Politicians and businesses should snap out of their sulk, and see Brexit for what it is: the greatest opportunity ever handed to a government by an electorate." The Spectator

    Spot on. Time for all Remnants to stop whinging and just let's make use of this great opportunity. We're free of the dead hand of the EU. Cause for celebration if ever there was one.
    Agreed. It's so obvious, I can't see why more people haven't woken up to it.

  10. #35

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    But the stats have shown areas of lowest immigration voted leave whilst cities with lots of immigration voted remain?
    Ofcourse they did. You are not going to expect those who immigrated to an area to vote leave, so its goes to say that its obvious those areas with immigrants in will have less people voting leave. Immigrants are not going to vote to kick themselves out.

    Its a silly and obvious statistic.

    And as was said, people without the immigration, may want to keep it that way.

  11. #36

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Thing is, 'higher immigration' could mean anything. It could be a number or percentage comparison with each other, it could be a comparison with itself of the previous year. It could mean compared to the eu average.
    I meant higher immigration than us.

    We have had massive levels of immigration for a decade, and high levels of immigration way before that.

    Until recently (2013) Germany actually had a declining population. Only the recent migrant influx has led to an icrease in population.

    So to say Germany has had similar levels of immigration would be true for 1-2 years, but prior to that they had a shrinking population.

    And if you cannot see how millions of cheap labour individuals reduces wages. Its a simply matter of supply and demand. We have managed to increase the number of jobs dramatically over the last few years (2 million jobs), but as we started at a high level of unemployment and had as many immigrants come to the UK, the supply of labour has increased faster than the demand for labour. This will suppress prices of labour(i.e. wages) down. And the largest effect is felt of the lowest paid.

    A small caveat to that, is the highly skilled immigration can increase high wages for those around them.

    So effectively, immigration makes the poor poorer and the rich richer.

  12. #37

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Dragon View Post
    Ofcourse they did. You are not going to expect those who immigrated to an area to vote leave, so its goes to say that its obvious those areas with immigrants in will have less people voting leave. Immigrants are not going to vote to kick themselves out.

    Its a silly and obvious statistic.

    And as was said, people without the immigration, may want to keep it that way.
    Some Brits in Spain did vote Leave

  13. #38

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Dragon View Post
    Ofcourse they did. You are not going to expect those who immigrated to an area to vote leave, so its goes to say that its obvious those areas with immigrants in will have less people voting leave. Immigrants are not going to vote to kick themselves out.

    Its a silly and obvious statistic.

    And as was said, people without the immigration, may want to keep it that way.
    When are we kicking all the immigrants out, have they set a date yet?

  14. #39

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Dragon View Post
    I meant higher immigration than us.

    We have had massive levels of immigration for a decade, and high levels of immigration way before that.

    Until recently (2013) Germany actually had a declining population. Only the recent migrant influx has led to an icrease in population.

    So to say Germany has had similar levels of immigration would be true for 1-2 years, but prior to that they had a shrinking population.

    And if you cannot see how millions of cheap labour individuals reduces wages. Its a simply matter of supply and demand. We have managed to increase the number of jobs dramatically over the last few years (2 million jobs), but as we started at a high level of unemployment and had as many immigrants come to the UK, the supply of labour has increased faster than the demand for labour. This will suppress prices of labour(i.e. wages) down. And the largest effect is felt of the lowest paid.

    A small caveat to that, is the highly skilled immigration can increase high wages for those around them.

    So effectively, immigration makes the poor poorer and the rich richer.
    How are you controlling for all the other differences between Germany and the UK?

  15. #40

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Dragon View Post
    I meant higher immigration than us.

    We have had massive levels of immigration for a decade, and high levels of immigration way before that.

    Until recently (2013) Germany actually had a declining population. Only the recent migrant influx has led to an icrease in population.

    So to say Germany has had similar levels of immigration would be true for 1-2 years, but prior to that they had a shrinking population.

    And if you cannot see how millions of cheap labour individuals reduces wages. Its a simply matter of supply and demand. We have managed to increase the number of jobs dramatically over the last few years (2 million jobs), but as we started at a high level of unemployment and had as many immigrants come to the UK, the supply of labour has increased faster than the demand for labour. This will suppress prices of labour(i.e. wages) down. And the largest effect is felt of the lowest paid.

    A small caveat to that, is the highly skilled immigration can increase high wages for those around them.

    So effectively, immigration makes the poor poorer and the rich richer.
    All the studies I have ever read concluded that high levels of migration make the very poorest poorer and everyone else richer.

  16. #41

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    What areas with high immigration have suffered? London, Manchester and Birmingham are in a better shape than they've ever been and have some of the highest immigration in the country.

    In fact the big cities need immigration to carry on growing.
    The majority of the problems associated with mass immigration are more attributable to a lack of foresight from local/national government than the migrants themselves.

  17. #42

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    But Germany are under the same migration rules as us? Even more 'uncontrolled', if you insist on using the word wrongly.

    So I'm a little confused how this can be the reason our wages are down and theirs are up. I'm sure you can help me out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Wages rise in Germany, wages fall in uk, Germany has higher immigration than uk.

    = Blame immigration for wages falling in uk.

    Baffling. Broken record.
    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    How are you controlling for all the other differences between Germany and the UK?
    Please elaborate as to what areas.

    Economies have differences, but markets in general work the same, whether its a labour markets or economic markets.

  18. #43

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    When are we kicking all the immigrants out, have they set a date yet?
    I very much doubt that happening, even with some far right morons thinking it would. There is no reason why anyone needs to be kicked out. Immigration will still continue, hopefully on a more needs based method than the simple open door policy.

  19. #44

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Dragon View Post
    Please elaborate as to what areas.

    Economies have differences, but markets in general work the same, whether its a labour markets or economic markets.
    What areas? Everything except for immigration. You're saying that if one factor was different, then the UK wouldn't have wages going down ("The reason why we are the only major economy to have wages falling in the last decade is the 2million people that have come here to work") so have you controlled for other factors?

  20. #45

    Re: Will New Trade Deal Come With New Referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    why dont we get rid of all borders everywhere and we can go wherever we want ffs
    What's wrong with that idea?

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