Picking strawberries.

[the other bob wilson]

Radio 5 Live did one of their programmes from a vegetable farm at Stourport on Severn yesterday. I had relatives who lived there in the late 60s and early 70s and we used to quite often meet them for a day at places like Ross on Wye.

I remember that the England v Brazil match in the 1970 World Cup was played on a Sunday and that I was worried about missing it because we were on one of our visits to our relatives. On that day, we went to a farm at somewhere like Symmons Yat and spent the day picking strawberries - the deal with the farmer was that, although you didn't get paid, you could eat as many strawberries as you liked as long as you were able to present him with a big enough quantity of picked fruit for him to sell.

Obviously, it was a system which was open to abuse, but on the four or five times I went there, I never came across anyone who did.

It was hard, tiring work in the sun, but I enjoyed it and yet I wasn't altogether surprised to hear yesterday that the farmer they interviewed was concerned about the implications of leaving the EU because he thought it would impact on the number of full time fruit pickers he would be able to employ.

Not to put too fine a point on it, he was very dubious about being able to fill the posts with British workers if the mainly migrant workforce he now uses were unable to continue with their jobs as a result of Brexit. He tried to stop short of saying British people were too lazy or just unwilling to do such work, but that was the message which came over.

If you offered me a job now (he pays the latest living wage rate) picking fruit and vegetables, I'd turn it down because I know I'd be knackered and no use to anyone after a couple of hours, but forty five years ago, I did it willingly and wasn't even being paid.

I'm not knocking youngsters here because I believe huge numbers of this country's adult population would consider such work beneath them somehow and, with productivity levels falling, I think those who try to make out that Brexit won't be a problem because we got along fine before we joined the Common Market may be guilty of not recognising that the character of the British worker has changed since then.

[Llanedeyrnblue]

Radio 5 Live did one of their programmes from a vegetable farm at Stourport on Severn yesterday. I had relatives who lived there in the late 60s and early 70s and we used to quite often meet them for a day at places like Ross on Wye.

I remember that the England v Brazil match in the 1970 World Cup was played on a Sunday and that I was worried about missing it because we were on one of our visits to our relatives. On that day, we went to a farm at somewhere like Symmons Yat and spent the day picking strawberries - the deal with the farmer was that, although you didn't get paid, you could eat as many strawberries as you liked as long as you were able to present him with a big enough quantity of picked fruit for him to sell.

Obviously, it was a system which was open to abuse, but on the four or five times I went there, I never came across anyone who did.

It was hard, tiring work in the sun, but I enjoyed it and yet I wasn't altogether surprised to hear yesterday that the farmer they interviewed was concerned about the implications of leaving the EU because he thought it would impact on the number of full time fruit pickers he would be able to employ.

Not to put too fine a point on it, he was very dubious about being able to fill the posts with British workers if the mainly migrant workforce he now uses were unable to continue with their jobs as a result of Brexit. He tried to stop short of saying British people were too lazy or just unwilling to do such work, but that was the message which came over.

If you offered me a job now (he pays the latest living wage rate) picking fruit and vegetables, I'd turn it down because I know I'd be knackered and no use to anyone after a couple of hours, but forty five years ago, I did it willingly and wasn't even being paid.

I'm not knocking youngsters here because I believe huge numbers of this country's adult population would consider such work beneath them somehow and, with productivity levels falling, I think those who try to make out that Brexit won't be a problem because we got along fine before we joined the Common Market may be guilty of not recognising that the character of the British worker has changed since then.

I grow my own in the garden

As for people thinking a type of work was beneath our youngsters or any other age group, maybe if benefits were not so easy to come by then perhaps they wouldn't able be so choosy.

[blue matt]

Radio 5 Live did one of their programmes from a vegetable farm at Stourport on Severn yesterday. I had relatives who lived there in the late 60s and early 70s and we used to quite often meet them for a day at places like Ross on Wye.

I remember that the England v Brazil match in the 1970 World Cup was played on a Sunday and that I was worried about missing it because we were on one of our visits to our relatives. On that day, we went to a farm at somewhere like Symmons Yat and spent the day picking strawberries - the deal with the farmer was that, although you didn't get paid, you could eat as many strawberries as you liked as long as you were able to present him with a big enough quantity of picked fruit for him to sell.

Obviously, it was a system which was open to abuse, but on the four or five times I went there, I never came across anyone who did.

It was hard, tiring work in the sun, but I enjoyed it and yet I wasn't altogether surprised to hear yesterday that the farmer they interviewed was concerned about the implications of leaving the EU because he thought it would impact on the number of full time fruit pickers he would be able to employ.

Not to put too fine a point on it, he was very dubious about being able to fill the posts with British workers if the mainly migrant workforce he now uses were unable to continue with their jobs as a result of Brexit. He tried to stop short of saying British people were too lazy or just unwilling to do such work, but that was the message which came over.

If you offered me a job now (he pays the latest living wage rate) picking fruit and vegetables, I'd turn it down because I know I'd be knackered and no use to anyone after a couple of hours, but forty five years ago, I did it willingly and wasn't even being paid.

I'm not knocking youngsters here because I believe huge numbers of this country's adult population would consider such work beneath them somehow and, with productivity levels falling, I think those who try to make out that Brexit won't be a problem because we got along fine before we joined the Common Market may be guilty of not recognising that the character of the British worker has changed since then.

Its not just youngsters though

I Bumped into a old work mate ( he was my labourer ) for a while, we got chatting and he said he left shortly after i left because it wasnt fun anymore ( now I am ashamed to say, when i was employed i treated jobs as a bit of a joke, i knew i could walk into another job fairly easy, as even though i had fun in work, i got the work done and did it well, thus could always phone ex-work mates and get a start )

I asked him what he was upto, he hadnt worked since i left which was 14 years ago now he is in his late 40's ( maybe early 50's ) I asked him why ? he replied " no need to work, the rent is paid and i get enough for a few beers on the weekend

I guess that just about sums the situation up

[TruBlue]

Maybe the people who voted out wanted to stop the importing of cheap foreign labour?

[the other bob wilson]

Maybe the people who voted out wanted to stop the importing of cheap foreign labour?

But the bloke who was on the radio pays the current living wage rate .

[TruBlue]

But the bloke who was on the radio pays the current living wage rate .

If no one will pick the fruit for that price he'll have no choice but to pay more or
if it becomes too expensive to employ people then I would assume the government would step in and make that one of the jobs available to migrants.

I never voted to leave but it was one of the arguments of their side, so I really don't think they'll be overly concerned about migrant fruit pickers.

[Wales-Bales]

Its not just youngsters though

I Bumped into a old work mate ( he was my labourer ) for a while, we got chatting and he said he left shortly after i left because it wasnt fun anymore ( now I am ashamed to say, when i was employed i treated jobs as a bit of a joke, i knew i could walk into another job fairly easy, as even though i had fun in work, i got the work done and did it well, thus could always phone ex-work mates and get a start )

I asked him what he was upto, he hadnt worked since i left which was 14 years ago now he is in his late 40's ( maybe early 50's ) I asked him why ? he replied " no need to work, the rent is paid and i get enough for a few beers on the weekend

I guess that just about sums the situation up

I bumped into an old workmate too, similar story except he takes foreign holidays 3 times a year and he's got a brand new motor.

I guess that sums up the situation.

[qccfc]

Currently on the governments website for jobs there is only one fruit picker job advertised on there, in Wolverhampton. That search was nationwide.

Maybe its a case that it suits the farmer who can contact an individual that supplies them with the labour for a cost that suits him, rather than advertising and going through the vetting process and the fact that people will leave during the work.

This is a starter or summer job for students its not a career, you might have youngsters doing it and then leaving when something better comes along, which will be a pain for the farmer, but its a fact of life really.

I dont buy this fact that UK kids are lazy, that itself is a lazy generalisation. It may be the case that it better for the farmer to use a contact to provide him with adult foreign labour (which will not need training, will not be looking for better opportunities, and will not need to be interviewed by the client).

[fugsyphil]

I entered a strawberry picking competition and came second to a woman with no legs...

jammy twat

[the other bob wilson]

Surely the point here is that the farmer said that while he didn't think that Brexit would mean an end to the opportunity he had to hire foreign migrants (I agree with him on that), he wasn't too optimistic about being able to do as well as he is now if he did have to rely on Brits to work for him picking fruit and vegetables.

I am only repeating what I heard on the radio and, while the sort of operation that was talked about seemed a long. long way away from what I experienced, I can imagine there being more formal arrangements at bigger farms and orchards.

As I mentioned before, while this guy didn't directly accuse Brits of being lazy, he did say they generally weren't as efficient as the foreign people who worked for him and there wasn't the same appetite for hard work that you tended to see from the migrants.

Based on what I see in everyday life, I can agree with the conclusion he comes to. Back when I was picking those strawberries, there was far more manual work around than there is now, it's also true to say that, in many cases, if something was broke then the first thing to do would be to try to fix it - not go and buy a new one. I have personal experience of this because around the same time as I was picking strawberries, I was often stopped from doing the sort of thing someone who is in their late teens would far prefer to do because I was told I had to help my dad fix the latest thing to go wrong with his car!

I suppose it was a throwback from the war where thrift was encouraged so much and people were forced to make do with what they had, but Britain had a proper manufacturing sector back then and so people were more used to physically demanding work - all in all, it was far more of a do it yourself population then than it is now.

That doesn't mean that it automatically follows that people, of all ages, are lazier now, but I don't believe they are as well equipped to cope with jobs where it's your body doing the work, as opposed to your mind -even if the spirit was willing, I don't believe your average Brit today would be as good at that picking strawberries job as I (and hundreds like me at the time) was all of those years ago.

[qccfc]

Surely the point here is that the farmer said that while he didn't think that Brexit would mean an end to the opportunity he had to hire foreign migrants (I agree with him on that), he wasn't too optimistic about being able to do as well as he is now if he did have to rely on Brits to work for him picking fruit and vegetables.

I am only repeating what I heard on the radio and, while the sort of operation that was talked about seemed a long. long way away from what I experienced, I can imagine there being more formal arrangements at bigger farms and orchards.

As I mentioned before, while this guy didn't directly accuse Brits of being lazy, he did say they generally weren't as efficient as the foreign people who worked for him and there wasn't the same appetite for hard work that you tended to see from the migrants.

Based on what I see in everyday life, I can agree with the conclusion he comes to. Back when I was picking those strawberries, there was far more manual work around than there is now, it's also true to say that, in many cases, if something was broke then the first thing to do would be to try to fix it - not go and buy a new one. I have personal experience of this because around the same time as I was picking strawberries, I was often stopped from doing the sort of thing someone who is in their late teens would far prefer to do because I was told I had to help my dad fix the latest thing to go wrong with his car!

I suppose it was a throwback from the war where thrift was encouraged so much and people were forced to make do with what they had, but Britain had a proper manufacturing sector back then and so people were more used to physically demanding work - all in all, it was far more of a do it yourself population then than it is now.

That doesn't mean that it automatically follows that people, of all ages, are lazier now, but I don't believe they are as well equipped to cope with jobs where it's your body doing the work, as opposed to your mind -even if the spirit was willing, I don't believe your average Brit today would be as good at that picking strawberries job as I (and hundreds like me at the time) was all of those years ago.

I think its a nonsense as stated there is only one fruit picking job advertised on the government approved job website in the UK. So where is the opportunity for youngsters to pick up this work.

Farmers are clearly using other means to get staff, i would suggest that route is agency.

Youngsters would have a quick turnover (students working for a set time in the summer holiday, people doing something until something else turns up, etc) for this sort of work, so the Farmer would have to keep hiring and firing, whereas the agency would offer staff for a set term for a set price, which is much more attractive for the Farmer.

What the Farmer cannot find is a market of youngsters that will give him the solid dependency that an agency supplying European workers can offer, and that's fair enough, i don't think it should be used as a slight on the people from this country.

I personally cannot see brexit happening, and even if it does happen i cannot see the UK keeping both the free market without accepting freedom of movement.

[TruBlue]

Surely the point here is that the farmer said that while he didn't think that Brexit would mean an end to the opportunity he had to hire foreign migrants (I agree with him on that), he wasn't too optimistic about being able to do as well as he is now if he did have to rely on Brits to work for him picking fruit and vegetables.

I am only repeating what I heard on the radio and, while the sort of operation that was talked about seemed a long. long way away from what I experienced, I can imagine there being more formal arrangements at bigger farms and orchards.

As I mentioned before, while this guy didn't directly accuse Brits of being lazy, he did say they generally weren't as efficient as the foreign people who worked for him and there wasn't the same appetite for hard work that you tended to see from the migrants.

Based on what I see in everyday life, I can agree with the conclusion he comes to. Back when I was picking those strawberries, there was far more manual work around than there is now, it's also true to say that, in many cases, if something was broke then the first thing to do would be to try to fix it - not go and buy a new one. I have personal experience of this because around the same time as I was picking strawberries, I was often stopped from doing the sort of thing someone who is in their late teens would far prefer to do because I was told I had to help my dad fix the latest thing to go wrong with his car!

I suppose it was a throwback from the war where thrift was encouraged so much and people were forced to make do with what they had, but Britain had a proper manufacturing sector back then and so people were more used to physically demanding work - all in all, it was far more of a do it yourself population then than it is now.

That doesn't mean that it automatically follows that people, of all ages, are lazier now, but I don't believe they are as well equipped to cope with jobs where it's your body doing the work, as opposed to your mind -even if the spirit was willing, I don't believe your average Brit today would be as good at that picking strawberries job as I (and hundreds like me at the time) was all of those years ago.

I think it's more to do because it's a shit job and most hard working Brits are likely to have better jobs than that, hard working Romanians probably haven't. That's not just the case for the farmer but for most industries. The hard working best people in there are already working for people so they are hard to get hold of. That way you can either pay more to attract them or get the lesser quality staff, this is the same across all industries.

As for helping their parents fix things, I think cars of yesteryear were considerably less complicated than cars of today.

However I appreciate that it's a generational thing, but you ask a kid to take a look and fix and iPad, phone etc for you and they'll blow most adults out of the water. These skills are likely to be a lot more useful to them going forward.

That certainly doesn't make the UK workforce lazy and it appears both yourself and the farmer are alluding too.

[the other bob wilson]

I think its a nonsense as stated there is only one fruit picking job advertised on the government approved job website in the UK. So where is the opportunity for youngsters to pick up this work.

Farmers are clearly using other means to get staff, i would suggest that route is agency.

Youngsters would have a quick turnover (students working for a set time in the summer holiday, people doing something until something else turns up, etc) for this sort of work, so the Farmer would have to keep hiring and firing, whereas the agency would offer staff for a set term for a set price, which is much more attractive for the Farmer.

What the Farmer cannot find is a market of youngsters that will give him the solid dependency that an agency supplying European workers can offer, and that's fair enough, i don't think it should be used as a slight on the people from this country.

I personally cannot see brexit happening, and even if it does happen i cannot see the UK keeping both the free market without accepting freedom of movement.

Not sure that the method of recruiting his employees is that relevant - the farmer is clearly getting migrants and Brits working for him, it just seems that, generally speaking, the Brits aren't as good at it and, according to him, are more likely to walk away after a few days.

I tend to agree with you about Brexit, but I'd say we'll get a watered down version which will include the two criteria you mention that can be passed off as the public getting what they voted for.

[qccfc]

Not sure that the method of recruiting his employees is that relevant - the farmer is clearly getting migrants and Brits working for him, it just seems that, generally speaking, the Brits aren't as good at it and, according to him, are more likely to walk away after a few days.

I tend to agree with you about Brexit, but I'd say we'll get a watered down version which will include the two criteria you mention that can be passed off as the public getting what they voted for.

Yes because the Brits are more than likely to be students and entry level employees, whilst the Europeans are generally moving away to work and to get money. Immediately the mindset should be different.

If i was running a business you would have the choice between taking on a young person who i would have to invest time in to grow, or to take on a European who could take to the job immediately and take the same money, it would be an seem an easy choice to take the more experienced option. Especially in a manual field.

What is then unfair is to compare the older, more in need of a wage worker, to the younger, less experienced person, of course there is a difference.

[the other bob wilson]

I think it's more to do because it's a shit job and most hard working Brits are likely to have better jobs than that, hard working Romanians probably haven't. That's not just the case for the farmer but for most industries. The hard working best people in there are already working for people so they are hard to get hold of. That way you can either pay more to attract them or get the lesser quality staff, this is the same across all industries.

As for helping their parents fix things, I think cars of yesteryear were considerably less complicated than cars of today.

However I appreciate that it's a generational thing, but you ask a kid to take a look and fix and iPad, phone etc for you and they'll blow most adults out of the water. These skills are likely to be a lot more useful to them going forward.

That certainly doesn't make the UK workforce lazy and it appears both yourself and the farmer are alluding too.

I find it very interesting and illuminating that, right there in your first sentence, you talk about "shit" jobs.

With regard to working on my dad's car, it was only used to illustrate the point I was trying to make - the tendency nowadays is to do what I do, get someone in.

You make a good point about the skill sets of youngsters nowadays - it may look as if I'm accusing them of being lazy, but that's not my intention. Things have, no doubt, moved on a lot from the time I'm talking about, but there are still the same old "shit" jobs to be done now as there were then.

Although it's arguing against what I said earlier about attitudes in the early 70s a bit, I've just remembered that there was an influx of immigrants from the Commonwealth in the 50s to fill jobs, mainly in public transport, which the British public appeared reluctant to take. While these weren't the highest paying jobs, they certainly weren't what I'd describe as "shit" either - it would appear that even then, there were some jobs that the British worker deemed to be beneath them and so I think those who expected to see a significant reduction in the number of migrants working in this country after the way the referendum vote went, might be in for a disappointment, because somebody will have to do these "shit" jobs. .

[blue matt]

I find it very interesting and illuminating that, right there in your first sentence, you talk about "shit" jobs.

With regard to working on my dad's car, it was only used to illustrate the point I was trying to make - the tendency nowadays is to do what I do, get someone in.

You make a good point about the skill sets of youngsters nowadays - it may look as if I'm accusing them of being lazy, but that's not my intention. Things have, no doubt, moved on a lot from the time I'm talking about, but there are still the same old "shit" jobs to be done now as there were then.

Although it's arguing against what I said earlier about attitudes in the early 70s a bit, I've just remembered that there was an influx of immigrants from the Commonwealth in the 50s to fill jobs, mainly in public transport, which the British public appeared reluctant to take. While these weren't the highest paying jobs, they certainly weren't what I'd describe as "shit" either - it would appear that even then, there were some jobs that the British worker deemed to be beneath them and so I think those who expected to see a significant reduction in the number of migrants working in this country after the way the referendum vote went, might be in for a disappointment, because somebody will have to do these "shit" jobs. .

talking about skills set, I was involved in a discussion with some parents monday night, we were discussing if the power went out ( like the TV series revolution ) in our close who would we have inside a gated community to " start again " , pleased to say i was " in " as being a carpenter / builder that is a skill that would be needed, we have a handyman aswell ( who would be handy, but he is also overweight, so might eat too much of our food, so i wasnt sure on him ) we have a mechanic ( handy ) and thats it, no-one else would bring a practical skill ( unless you want the head of H&S involved telling you cannot work about 1 M on some steps )

Have we really lost the practical skill needed to survive ? ? ?

Look at the Uk during the war, they dug deep and got on with it, growing veg in gardens and spare land, they made do and mended, could society today cope with that ? ? ?

[NYCBlue]

I bumped into an old workmate too, similar story except he takes foreign holidays 3 times a year and he's got a brand new motor.

I guess that sums up the situation.

He lives solely off benefits and takes foreign holidays 3 times a year and he's got a brand new motor? Bollocks.

[TruBlue]

I find it very interesting and illuminating that, right there in your first sentence, you talk about "shit" jobs.

With regard to working on my dad's car, it was only used to illustrate the point I was trying to make - the tendency nowadays is to do what I do, get someone in.

You make a good point about the skill sets of youngsters nowadays - it may look as if I'm accusing them of being lazy, but that's not my intention. Things have, no doubt, moved on a lot from the time I'm talking about, but there are still the same old "shit" jobs to be done now as there were then.

Although it's arguing against what I said earlier about attitudes in the early 70s a bit, I've just remembered that there was an influx of immigrants from the Commonwealth in the 50s to fill jobs, mainly in public transport, which the British public appeared reluctant to take. While these weren't the highest paying jobs, they certainly weren't what I'd describe as "shit" either - it would appear that even then, there were some jobs that the British worker deemed to be beneath them and so I think those who expected to see a significant reduction in the number of migrants working in this country after the way the referendum vote went, might be in for a disappointment, because somebody will have to do these "shit" jobs. .

You seem to be obsessing a bit with the "shit" job comment. Be honest it's a crap job isn't it? Fine for a tomato season (if you excuse the pun) but not the sort of thing anyone would want to do long term. You sort of dismissed that earlier when qccfc mentioned similar but I agree with him.

The point about there being the same old jobs to do is incorrect, how many child chimney sweepers do we need now, or coal miners, or lamplighters etc. Modern days society equivalent is call centres, and there are plenty of Brits already doing those "shit" jobs.

There will always be a certain amount of jobs that people who've had a better opportunity in life won't want to do, the government will then be forced to make the call on allowing migrants into the country or not, if not the wages will need to rise until people are happy to do it.

If you weren't suggesting that the British workforce is lazy I apologise, but I certainly got that impression.

One point I agree with is that if people voted about immigration will be sadly disappointed in the coming years. We can't/won't be allowed to have it both ways. Free market or freedom or movement. They won't get their way on both.

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

He lives solely off benefits and takes foreign holidays 3 times a year and he's got a brand new motor? Bollocks.

My thoughts too.

He's either got a wife with a well paid job (in which case, he isn't going to qualify for much welfare) or he has inherited property/money or he's got a good fiddle going - benefits alone are not going to give you that.

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

He lives solely off benefits and takes foreign holidays 3 times a year and he's got a brand new motor? Bollocks.

My thoughts too.

He's either got a wife with a well paid job (in which case, he isn't going to qualify for much welfare) or he has inherited property/money or he's got a good fiddle going - benefits alone are not going to give you that.

[lardy]

You seem to be obsessing a bit with the "shit" job comment. Be honest it's a crap job isn't it? Fine for a tomato season (if you excuse the pun) but not the sort of thing anyone would want to do long term. You sort of dismissed that earlier when qccfc mentioned similar but I agree with him.

The point about there being the same old jobs to do is incorrect, how many child chimney sweepers do we need now, or coal miners, or lamplighters etc. Modern days society equivalent is call centres, and there are plenty of Brits already doing those "shit" jobs.

There will always be a certain amount of jobs that people who've had a better opportunity in life won't want to do, the government will then be forced to make the call on allowing migrants into the country or not, if not the wages will need to rise until people are happy to do it.

If you weren't suggesting that the British workforce is lazy I apologise, but I certainly got that impression.

One point I agree with is that if people voted about immigration will be sadly disappointed in the coming years. We can't/won't be allowed to have it both ways. Free market or freedom or movement. They won't get their way on both.

I'm not sure TOBW was around in the days of child chimney sweeps

[the other bob wilson]

I'm not sure TOBW was around in the days of child chimney sweeps

I can remember a chimney sweep working at our house when I was a kid. I was out when he arrived, but was there for most of his visit and I can categorically state that, if he sent a child up to do the cleaning, they weren't with him when he left .

[Ring_Peace]

FACT OF THE DAY:

The Welsh word for "strawberry" is "pyo".

image.jpg

Your welkum!

[TruBlue]

FACT OF THE DAY:

The Welsh word for "strawberry" is "pyo".

image.jpg

Your welkum!

[splott parker]

Anyway Paul, did you get to see Brazil beat England?