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Thread: GLAMMY

  1. #276

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by qccfc View Post
    Why does a batsman need a former batsman to coach him.
    To install the right mindset which our lot clearly do not have. Stick them with Chris Tavare next season and make them appreciate the value of their wickets. We have a team that doesn't know how to play the situation in any given match.

  2. #277

    Re: GLAMMY

    The Tavare bit was partially tongue in cheek but we don't have players who know how to graft for an innings and fight it out.

  3. #278

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    To install the right mindset which our lot clearly do not have. Stick them with Chris Tavare next season and make them appreciste the value of their wickets. We have a team that doesn't know how to play the situation in any given match.
    When you go into cricket coaching they don't allocate roles on how you played, Croft would have done the top end qualification to get to this point, he is more than capable of doing more that talking to the spinners.

    That being said there is something to be said of talking to a batsman who has played at the top level for tips, that could be done on a consultancy basis, or they would get tips of the captain of the team who has 6 test centuries and a high score of 222*

    A bowler stands in front of a batsman and analyses his technique every ball. If you have a problem with your technique why wouldnt you talk to a bowler, and ask him how he would go about getting him out and what he should change to put this right.

  4. #279

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by qccfc View Post
    When you go into cricket coaching they don't allocate roles on how you played, Croft would have done the top end qualification to get to this point, he is more than capable of doing more that talking to the spinners.

    That being said there is something to be said of talking to a batsman who has played at the top level for tips, that could be done on a consultancy basis, or they would get tips of the captain of the team who has 6 test centuries and a high score of 222*

    A bowler stands in front of a batsman and analyses his technique every ball. If you have a problem with your technique why wouldnt you talk to a bowler, and ask him how he would go about getting him out and what he should change to put this right.
    If Croft is more than capable of doing this it certainly isn't showing. My view is that the batting is reckless and we need someone like a Tavare or Boycott to come in and analyse why we are being bowled out so cheaply time and again. You could ask a bowler I suppose but I think it is more about mindset than technique.

    One other point. If Rudolph does stay our youngsters will have very limited opportunities as the side would be something like


    Selman
    Rudolph
    Bragg
    Ingram
    Donald
    Cooke
    Wallace
    Wagg
    New bowler
    Van Der Gugten
    Hogan
    Last edited by Pearcey3; 14-09-16 at 16:46.

  5. #280

    Re: GLAMMY

    What do you all think about this

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/37365637

  6. #281

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    What do you all think about this

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/37365637
    Not keen but I suspect it's the future. For teams like!e Somerset and Sussex I can't see what would be in it for their supporters. Would Somerset have to support a Bristol team? Can't see how there would be a connection.

  7. #282

    Re: GLAMMY

    Well done to Wally on leading a brave fightback at 280/8
    Last edited by Pearcey3; 14-09-16 at 17:09.

  8. #283

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Well done to Wally on leading a brave fightback at 280/8

    Yes well done Wally, he's still there on 75, were 293-9 at least we've bettered the 1st innings score

  9. #284

    Re: GLAMMY

    Wallace run out (!) already - Essex need 263 to win

  10. #285

    Re: GLAMMY

    Interesting chat with the retiring seamers Masters and Napier, during the Essex break.

    The were saying that Silverwood has Essex set-up to play attritional cricket, where the batsman grid out the bigger scores, and that their seamers can then chip away at a top of off stump line and make it hard for the opposition batsman.

    I would say that that attitude is the direct opposite of the attitude Croft bring to the game, especially with his quotes in the press.

    My point is that we don’t really need new coaches, I find the need for a batting coach a bit unwarranted, because there is batting experience already at the club in the shape of Morris and Rudolph that can pass those messages over, and also the fact that you would say younger players need coaching, while senior players need tweaks in their technique. The fact that its our younger players that are doing well points to there being something going right in the coaching.

    What we do need in the longer form game is a change in attitude.

    Maybe we are seeing pressure from the top that our shorter form games are attractive because that brings in the money, so we have focused all our play on that to the determent of the championship game.

    I was speaking to someone involved in St Fagans this season, and he was very much of the old school coaching format where you take a youngster and you teach them technique first and then expand their game as their strength grows, and I remember many a game down there where you would come up against a younger player, and he wouldn’t score but you wouldn’t get him out either. They then had Matthew Maynard come down to take a session and he went in right away and forget all that and just hit it as far as you can, the members were shocked, but maybe that is the way the game is going these days. That you teach a player to slog first and the technique comes afterwards. Maybe Croft then comes from that school of thought, and what we will se is some frustrating seasons while it all comes together.

  11. #286

    Re: GLAMMY

    Essex 173-5 they need another 90 runs to win

  12. #287

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by qccfc View Post
    Interesting chat with the retiring seamers Masters and Napier, during the Essex break.

    The were saying that Silverwood has Essex set-up to play attritional cricket, where the batsman grid out the bigger scores, and that their seamers can then chip away at a top of off stump line and make it hard for the opposition batsman.

    I would say that that attitude is the direct opposite of the attitude Croft bring to the game, especially with his quotes in the press.

    My point is that we don’t really need new coaches, I find the need for a batting coach a bit unwarranted, because there is batting experience already at the club in the shape of Morris and Rudolph that can pass those messages over, and also the fact that you would say younger players need coaching, while senior players need tweaks in their technique. The fact that its our younger players that are doing well points to there being something going right in the coaching.

    What we do need in the longer form game is a change in attitude.

    Maybe we are seeing pressure from the top that our shorter form games are attractive because that brings in the money, so we have focused all our play on that to the determent of the championship game.

    I was speaking to someone involved in St Fagans this season, and he was very much of the old school coaching format where you take a youngster and you teach them technique first and then expand their game as their strength grows, and I remember many a game down there where you would come up against a younger player, and he wouldn’t score but you wouldn’t get him out either. They then had Matthew Maynard come down to take a session and he went in right away and forget all that and just hit it as far as you can, the members were shocked, but maybe that is the way the game is going these days. That you teach a player to slog first and the technique comes afterwards. Maybe Croft then comes from that school of thought, and what we will se is some frustrating seasons while it all comes together.
    I agree that it's a bit of a generational thing. What teaching I received on the art of batting started with trying to get my defence right and then the instruction was to try and develop your game (both in general terms and in playing an innings) as you felt more comfortable - it follows therefore that I instinctively balk at the sort of thing we've see from Glamorgan this season.

    It's taken me a while to see the other side of the argument, but I can now understand the logic which says batting four hours for fifty when you are trying to save a game keeps pressure on your team in a way that batting the same time and scoring four times as many doesn't - more often than not, the first approach ends up with your side losing as well.

    I agree with you to the extent that Glamorgan's poor batting this season can be put down to an attitude thing rather than the way individuals are coached. It seems all batsmen are encouraged to be more positive these days, but I still say that there is a place for the skills which prevailed for a hundred years and more and I get the impression that these are undervalued these days - as in most things, the answer lies between the two extremes and it would appear that Essex appreciate this because they have batsmen who will score at a quick enough rate without taking the sort of risks Glamorgan's do.

    The strange thing is that Glamorgan's approach to bowling in the Championship has been attritional with an emphasis on exactly the same things that Essex aim for - indeed, I can remember one of their players saying how hard we made it for their batsman to push things along in the game they played at Cardiff earlier in the season and it's a compliment I've heard repeated by Kent and Sussex players as well.

    Essex 192-6 now with ten Doeschate providing Hogan with his fourth wicket. We'll probably lose this game, but we had the better of a draw with the Second Division Champions in May I think it was and now we're pushing them all the way here - strange that we can do this and yet be stuffed by teams like Gloucester (twice), Northants (twice) and Leicester.
    Last edited by the other bob wilson; 15-09-16 at 15:19.

  13. #288

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I agree that it's a bit of a generational thing. What teaching I received on the art of batting started with trying to get my defence right and then the instruction was to try and develop your game (both in general terms and in playing an innings) as you felt more comfortable - it follows therefore that I instinctively balk at the sort of thing we've see from Glamorgan this season.

    It's taken me a while to see the other side of the argument, but I can now understand the logic which says batting four hours for fifty when you are trying to save a game keeps pressure on your team in a way that batting the same time and scoring four times as many doesn't - more often than not, the first approach ends up with your side losing as well.

    I agree with you to the extent that Glamorgan's poor batting this season can be put down to an attitude thing rather than the way individuals are coached. It seems all batsmen are encouraged to be more positive these days, but I still say that there is a place for the skills which prevailed for a hundred years and more and I get the impression that these are undervalued these days - as in most things, the answer lies between the two extremes and it would appear that Essex appreciate this because they have batsmen who will score at a quick enough rate without taking the sort of risks Glamorgan's do.

    The strange thing is that Glamorgan's approach to bowling in the Championship has been attritional with an emphasis on exactly the same things that Essex aim for - indeed, I can remember one of their players saying how hard we made it for their batsman to push things along in the game they played at Cardiff earlier in the season and it's a compliment I've heard repeated by Kent and Sussex players as well.

    Essex 192-6 now with ten Doeschate providing Hogan with his fourth wicket. We'll probably lose this game, but we had the better of a draw with the Second Division Champions in May I think it was and now we're pushing them all the way here - strange that we can do this and yet be stuffed by teams like Gloucester (twice), Northants (twice) and Leicester.
    When i say there is need for a change in attitude, i believe that, that attitude comes from the coaching, if all your batting session are attacking and all the talk is to attack then its difficult to switch from that in a match situation.

    However it is yet to be seen that this approach may benefit our younger players in the long run.

    Its all down to the attitude of whether you primarily look at this a season of disappointing LVCC results (which it is), or a season of development and progression of youngsters (which you could argue it is as well).

  14. #289

    Re: GLAMMY

    205-7, another wicket for Hogan, but it's made for Graham Napier to come in and win the game in his final home match for Essex.

  15. #290

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    205-7, another wicket for Hogan, but it's made for Graham Napier to come in and win the game in his final home match for Essex.

    Napier never bowled in our second innings, is he injured?

  16. #291

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by qccfc View Post
    Interesting chat with the retiring seamers Masters and Napier, during the Essex break.

    The were saying that Silverwood has Essex set-up to play attritional cricket, where the batsman grid out the bigger scores, and that their seamers can then chip away at a top of off stump line and make it hard for the opposition batsman.

    I would say that that attitude is the direct opposite of the attitude Croft bring to the game, especially with his quotes in the press.

    My point is that we don’t really need new coaches, I find the need for a batting coach a bit unwarranted, because there is batting experience already at the club in the shape of Morris and Rudolph that can pass those messages over, and also the fact that you would say younger players need coaching, while senior players need tweaks in their technique. The fact that its our younger players that are doing well points to there being something going right in the coaching.

    What we do need in the longer form game is a change in attitude.

    Maybe we are seeing pressure from the top that our shorter form games are attractive because that brings in the money, so we have focused all our play on that to the determent of the championship game.

    I was speaking to someone involved in St Fagans this season, and he was very much of the old school coaching format where you take a youngster and you teach them technique first and then expand their game as their strength grows, and I remember many a game down there where you would come up against a younger player, and he wouldn’t score but you wouldn’t get him out either. They then had Matthew Maynard come down to take a session and he went in right away and forget all that and just hit it as far as you can, the members were shocked, but maybe that is the way the game is going these days. That you teach a player to slog first and the technique comes afterwards. Maybe Croft then comes from that school of thought, and what we will se is some frustrating seasons while it all comes together.
    What Silverwod is doing is precisely the point. It may not be pretty but it is effective. We have too many batsmen playing four day cricket but with one day mindsets and I would include Ingram and Cooke here.
    I would much rather we score at 3 an over and bat for 100 overs than score at 4 an over and get bowled out in 60 overs. By being bowled out so quickly our bowlers get less rest as well.

    Two other points. We don't have a single batsman in the top 50 division 2 batting averages. Our bowling bonus points are higher than any other team in the division bar Essex.

    If we swapped Rudolph's runs for Mark Cosgrove's we would be doing a lot better.

    A great effort today. We may well lose but it's a proper fight. Fantastic from Hoges.
    We could do with the win as Derbyshire look like winning.

  17. #292

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    Napier never bowled in our second innings, is he injured?
    He's batting anyway

  18. #293

    Re: GLAMMY

    223/8. Van Der Gugten strikes. Excellent bowling from him and Hogan today.

  19. #294

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    205-7, another wicket for Hogan, but it's made for Graham Napier to come in and win the game in his final home match for Essex.
    He's out you jinxed him

  20. #295

    Re: GLAMMY

    229/9. Just one more wicket to record what would be an exceptional win.

  21. #296

    Re: GLAMMY

    10 overs left. One wicket or 26 runs required.

  22. #297

    Re: GLAMMY

    Surely time to bring back Hogan

  23. #298

    Re: GLAMMY

    Yes

  24. #299

    Re: GLAMMY

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Surely time to bring back Hogan
    Here he comes

  25. #300

    Re: GLAMMY

    At least Derbyshire didn't win. Essex are going to nick this.

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