Ken Choo confirms what most knew already.

[the other bob wilson]

We need to sell before we can buy - he thinks we may have to wait until the last week the window is open before we bring anyone else in.

It's easy to look at the money being spent by other Championship clubs and get downbeat about City's chances for the coming season, but, in virtually every case, the teams doing the spending have also sold players for tidy sums. We've not done that and, if I'm going to blame the owner and administrative staff at the club for anything this summer, it would be that, having been burnt the previous summer, they still went ahead and spent ridiculous money during the summer of 2014 - the three players now available for transfer were all signed on wages that, surely, will put off any potential buyers unless we help them out in some way (e.g. waiving any fee or making a contribution towards their salary at any new club).

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/f...ined-11704546?

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

It's testament to how terribly Cardiff City were run during the Premier League season. To leave the division with a £12m loss, a new stand (with dwindling crowds), average players on obscene wages. The club was out of control and it's not a particularly glowing reflection on Tan - the billionaire who must know what he's doing.

Tan invested £120m (according to him http://www.businessinsider.com/vince...s-2014-10?IR=T), and Cardiff received £63.7m from Sky for finishing bottom. Where did all that money go? Why are Cardiff now in a position of having to sell before they buy? And why have they given such lucrative contracts to players at the start of their cost cutting exercise?

People can blame the stay-away fans all they want, the problem at Cardiff starts and ends in the boardroom.

[Des Parrot]

Championship clubs spending as of today.

£111M spent
£121M received

With Newcastle being responsible for about 40% of both.

7 clubs including City, have spent £0 on transfer fees (or at least not disclosed fees).

[qccfc]

Championship clubs spending as of today.

£111M spent
£121M received

With Newcastle being responsible for about 40% of both.

7 clubs including City, have spent £0 on transfer fees (or at least not disclosed fees).

The amount of undisclosed fees are making a mockery of stats like this.

Today Fulham announced that McCormack fee was undisclosed, but with Villa claiming it was £12 it was sort of undone.

I would have said that Cardiff paid a fee for both Immers and Zohore.

[bluethrough]

The amount of undisclosed fees are making a mockery of stats like this.

Today Fulham announced that McCormack fee was undisclosed, but with Villa claiming it was £12 it was sort of undone.

I would have said that Cardiff paid a fee for both Immers and Zohore.

At that sort of price I would have chipped in myself if we could have got Ross back

[jon1959]

I'm no accountant, and I don't really understand how Football Fair Play works (a failing I imagine I share with Derby County and other similar 'splash the cash' clubs), but it feels as if we turned a corner a while ago and are becoming a properly run club.

Tan is now sensibly keeping a low profile - but the return to blue and 'debt to equity' decisions were crucial.

Choo seems to be very competent, fan-focussed, and has hardly put a foot wrong so far.

Dalman is staying in the background, but club governance seems to have improved.

Trollope and his new coaching team seem to know what they're doing, have a Plan A, B and C, have shown flexibility and want a team that is fitter, more Welsh, and with room for youth players.

We have already signed 4 players (even if 2 were loans to permanent) and have a big and talented squad for our league.

We all want a few more players - especially goals and pace at the top of the pitch - but the if best chance of getting what we need is in the last week of the window when some or all of the Bomb Squad have departed, then so be it.

I don't know what to expect this season, but I do know I'm happier as a Cardiff fan than I have been for years.

[jeepster]

I'm no accountant, and I don't really understand how Football Fair Play works (a failing I imagine I share with Derby County and other similar 'splash the cash' clubs), but it feels as if we turned a corner a while ago and are becoming a properly run club.

Tan is now sensibly keeping a low profile - but the return to blue and 'debt to equity' decisions were crucial.

Choo seems to be very competent, fan-focussed, and has hardly put a foot wrong so far.

Dalman is staying in the background, but club governance seems to have improved.

Trollope and his new coaching team seem to know what they're doing, have a Plan A, B and C, have shown flexibility and want a team that is fitter, more Welsh, and with room for youth players.

We have already signed 4 players (even if 2 were loans to permanent) and have a big and talented squad for our league.

We all want a few more players - especially goals and pace at the top of the pitch - but the if best chance of getting what we need is in the last week of the window when some or all of the Bomb Squad have departed, then so be it.

I don't know what to expect this season, but I do know I'm happier as a Cardiff fan than I have been for years.

Nice one it is how I feel at the moment.

[cad monkey]

I'm no accountant, and I don't really understand how Football Fair Play works (a failing I imagine I share with Derby County and other similar 'splash the cash' clubs), but it feels as if we turned a corner a while ago and are becoming a properly run club.

Tan is now sensibly keeping a low profile - but the return to blue and 'debt to equity' decisions were crucial.

Choo seems to be very competent, fan-focussed, and has hardly put a foot wrong so far.

Dalman is staying in the background, but club governance seems to have improved.

Trollope and his new coaching team seem to know what they're doing, have a Plan A, B and C, have shown flexibility and want a team that is fitter, more Welsh, and with room for youth players.

We have already signed 4 players (even if 2 were loans to permanent) and have a big and talented squad for our league.

We all want a few more players - especially goals and pace at the top of the pitch - but the if best chance of getting what we need is in the last week of the window when some or all of the Bomb Squad have departed, then so be it.

I don't know what to expect this season, but I do know I'm happier as a Cardiff fan than I have been for years.

Great post !

[TH63]

I'm no accountant, and I don't really understand how Football Fair Play works (a failing I imagine I share with Derby County and other similar 'splash the cash' clubs), but it feels as if we turned a corner a while ago and are becoming a properly run club.

Tan is now sensibly keeping a low profile - but the return to blue and 'debt to equity' decisions were crucial.

Choo seems to be very competent, fan-focussed, and has hardly put a foot wrong so far.

Dalman is staying in the background, but club governance seems to have improved.

Trollope and his new coaching team seem to know what they're doing, have a Plan A, B and C, have shown flexibility and want a team that is fitter, more Welsh, and with room for youth players.

We have already signed 4 players (even if 2 were loans to permanent) and have a big and talented squad for our league.

We all want a few more players - especially goals and pace at the top of the pitch - but the if best chance of getting what we need is in the last week of the window when some or all of the Bomb Squad have departed, then so be it.

I don't know what to expect this season, but I do know I'm happier as a Cardiff fan than I have been for years.

Agree with this.

If we had spent some silly money on a couple of high profile players, no doubt there would be people up in arms on here about financial irresponsibility.

There's a whole host of reasons why the PL season was such a disappointing one, clearly we are still paying the price for that debacle, but hopefully next time (ever the optimist!) we will be far better prepared.

[thehumblegringo]

I'm no accountant, and I don't really understand how Football Fair Play works (a failing I imagine I share with Derby County and other similar 'splash the cash' clubs), but it feels as if we turned a corner a while ago and are becoming a properly run club.

Tan is now sensibly keeping a low profile - but the return to blue and 'debt to equity' decisions were crucial.

Choo seems to be very competent, fan-focussed, and has hardly put a foot wrong so far.

Dalman is staying in the background, but club governance seems to have improved.

Trollope and his new coaching team seem to know what they're doing, have a Plan A, B and C, have shown flexibility and want a team that is fitter, more Welsh, and with room for youth players.

We have already signed 4 players (even if 2 were loans to permanent) and have a big and talented squad for our league.

We all want a few more players - especially goals and pace at the top of the pitch - but the if best chance of getting what we need is in the last week of the window when some or all of the Bomb Squad have departed, then so be it.

I don't know what to expect this season, but I do know I'm happier as a Cardiff fan than I have been for years.

[Llanedeyrnblue]

Who are we going to sell then? I can't see us selling any of the useless three, some idiot may have them on loan, but buy them?

[dmf1]

It's testament to how terribly Cardiff City were run during the Premier League season. To leave the division with a £12m loss, a new stand (with dwindling crowds), average players on obscene wages. The club was out of control and it's not a particularly glowing reflection on Tan - the billionaire who must know what he's doing.

Tan invested £120m (according to him http://www.businessinsider.com/vince...s-2014-10?IR=T), and Cardiff received £63.7m from Sky for finishing bottom. Where did all that money go? Why are Cardiff now in a position of having to sell before they buy? And why have they given such lucrative contracts to players at the start of their cost cutting exercise?

People can blame the stay-away fans all they want, the problem at Cardiff starts and ends in the boardroom.

The figures from the PL and the "Summer of Ole" are obscene.

- Spent over £50m on wages in our PL season
- Spent £10m on a stand extension that's never used
- £3m 'exceptional costs' which sounds like compensation for Ole and his staff
- A £6.6m impairment on 'player registrations' in 2014 and a £4.6m impairment in 2015 (i.e. writing off transfer fees because the players we bought were useless)


When you set those figures against significantly lower attendances and dwindling parachute payments it's crazy.

But I do agree with the above posts; that these days the club seems to be run more sensibly. The signings may not be big names, but appear to be good value for money (at least on paper) and keep us in the hunt for the playoffs. I think that's all we can ask for these days, and if the coaching staff are as good as advertised I would say we've got a fair chance of that 6th spot.

[dmf1]

Who are we going to sell then? I can't see us selling any of the useless three, some idiot may have them on loan, but buy them?

At least they're all out of contract at the end of the season. A loan deal where the clubs can't send them back would effectively be a free transfer (with us subsidising part of their wages) which is probably as good as we can hope for. Maybe a small fee for Alfie but I don't have my hopes up.

[CCFC CASUAL]

I'm no accountant, and I don't really understand how Football Fair Play works (a failing I imagine I share with Derby County and other similar 'splash the cash' clubs), but it feels as if we turned a corner a while ago and are becoming a properly run club.

Tan is now sensibly keeping a low profile - but the return to blue and 'debt to equity' decisions were crucial.

Choo seems to be very competent, fan-focussed, and has hardly put a foot wrong so far.

Dalman is staying in the background, but club governance seems to have improved.

Trollope and his new coaching team seem to know what they're doing, have a Plan A, B and C, have shown flexibility and want a team that is fitter, more Welsh, and with room for youth players.

We have already signed 4 players (even if 2 were loans to permanent) and have a big and talented squad for our league.

We all want a few more players - especially goals and pace at the top of the pitch - but the if best chance of getting what we need is in the last week of the window when some or all of the Bomb Squad have departed, then so be it.

I don't know what to expect this season, but I do know I'm happier as a Cardiff fan than I have been for years.

Excellent post Jon.

We can keep living in Groundhog Day and keep repeating everything that went wrong that everyone already knows and has heard / read a thousand times, or we can draw a line under it, move on and start enjoying being supporters again.

Now that Slade has gone I'm certainly looking forward to the new season and QPR will be my first appearance at the CCS for over 18 months and I can't wait.

[Des Parrot]

Who are we going to sell then? I can't see us selling any of the useless three, some idiot may have them on loan, but buy them?

It's probably more the salaries, a conservative estimate would be say £65k / week for the 3, if we can get them off the books (for free) and bring in a couple of players and save £25k / week in salaries the club will look at that as parity.

People keep taking about "obscene" wages but the wages in the Championship are being inflated every season. I read somewhere that the average wage in the Championship last season was £22,500 / week. I would bet that with Newcastle in the division that will migrate to in excess of £25k this season.

[surge]

The figures from the PL and the "Summer of Ole" are obscene.

- Spent over £50m on wages in our PL season
- Spent £10m on a stand extension that's never used
- £3m 'exceptional costs' which sounds like compensation for Ole and his staff
- A £6.6m impairment on 'player registrations' in 2014 and a £4.6m impairment in 2015 (i.e. writing off transfer fees because the players we bought were useless)


When you set those figures against significantly lower attendances and dwindling parachute payments it's crazy.

But I do agree with the above posts; that these days the club seems to be run more sensibly. The signings may not be big names, but appear to be good value for money (at least on paper) and keep us in the hunt for the playoffs. I think that's all we can ask for these days, and if the coaching staff are as good as advertised I would say we've got a fair chance of that 6th spot.

And Tan said we would spend wildly while he was a much greater influence in the Ole windows...

Likewise I agree that the club feels a far more positive place and the board should take some credit for re-building many bridges. We're not yet in a position where Tan can say anything stupid, it would soon reopen deep wounds, but I reckon Choo can be forgiven for a silly comment, which hopefully never comes.

[Blue in the Face]

I'm no accountant, and I don't really understand how Football Fair Play works (a failing I imagine I share with Derby County and other similar 'splash the cash' clubs), but it feels as if we turned a corner a while ago and are becoming a properly run club.

Tan is now sensibly keeping a low profile - but the return to blue and 'debt to equity' decisions were crucial.

Choo seems to be very competent, fan-focussed, and has hardly put a foot wrong so far.

Dalman is staying in the background, but club governance seems to have improved.

Trollope and his new coaching team seem to know what they're doing, have a Plan A, B and C, have shown flexibility and want a team that is fitter, more Welsh, and with room for youth players.

We have already signed 4 players (even if 2 were loans to permanent) and have a big and talented squad for our league.

We all want a few more players - especially goals and pace at the top of the pitch - but the if best chance of getting what we need is in the last week of the window when some or all of the Bomb Squad have departed, then so be it.

I don't know what to expect this season, but I do know I'm happier as a Cardiff fan than I have been for years.

Great post. I wanted to do my bit here to help Jon break the CCMB record for the most quoted post ever.

There's a lot of talk about transfer fees on this thread but it seems our problem for the two years prior to Slade's arrival was our speculative gambles on players and tying them to high paying contracts. It seems there must be something not quite right at a football club if you have to incentivise players to come by over paying.

A crucial reason why we have to sell before we buy is because we haven't made a chunk of money on selling a player in quite some time. And the times we have since DJ left have been scarce. Again, the reason for this is because weve been overpaying on wages and our players are not attractive financially to other clubs.

We have to commit to waiting for the right, well priced, buys for good now. Hopefully we'll find ourselves making good money on sales again in the future. The amount of clubs in our division who are spending like we did under OGS outweighs the three opportunities that are available for promotion. We're ahead of the game in that we've already learned this lesson while I feel a fair few clubs at our level have not.

It's all about the long game.

[Tandy]

Should have sold Marshall when we had the chance, probably the only player any club would be interested in.

[Random in Duquesa]

Great post by Jon , I will be happy with an entertaining championship team , in Blue , that is competitive (even if we don't make top six) .
I have tried to airbrush the prem from my mind , but in the long run its probably brought some realism to our owner , thanks to Choo I would imagine.
I will admit that for years, in the dungeon divisions , I was happy with a crap game and one nil win off someone's arse , but that seems to have changed a bit.
Maybe it's because supposed success wasn't all that , excepting the cup finals.

[The Lone Gunman]

We have already signed 4 players (even if 2 were loans to permanent) and have a big and talented squad for our league.

I genuinely admire your optimism, Jon. To me, the squad looks distinctly average by Championship standards. I'd say only the goalkeeper is an above-average Championship player. Whittingham has certainly been above-average in the past, but his best years look firmly behind him now. The rest don't look anything special at all.

The Racing Post published their annual 72-page betting guide to the new season on Tuesday. They gave over five full pages to the Championship. The only mention of Cardiff City came in the 24-club divisional preview and suggested that new manager Paul Trollope "may struggle to get the best out of an ordinary group." They predicted the Bluebirds would finish fourteenth.

[MacAdder]

I genuinely admire your optimism, Jon. To me, the squad looks distinctly average by Championship standards. I'd say only the goalkeeper is an above-average Championship player. Whittingham has certainly been above-average in the past, but his best years look firmly behind him now. The rest don't look anything special at all.

The Racing Post published their annual 72-page betting guide to the new season on Tuesday. They gave over five full pages to the Championship. The only mention of Cardiff City came in the 24-club divisional preview and suggested that new manager Paul Trollope "may struggle to get the best out of an ordinary group." They predicted the Bluebirds would finish fourteenth.

You will probably get a few people knocking you TLG for your usual informative post which may be catagorised as negative.

"Talented" as individuals may be an overstatement but many believe on here that as a group, Trollope will galvanise these players into producing something, à la Pays de Galles, which I'm sure the Racing Post will not have factored in to their spreadsheet.

In any case, should they not threaten the play off places which Russell Slade kind of did but didn't really, the feeling is that PT can make the same players into a team which entertains, which will override the facts that you've so painstakingly researched.
Do keep posting by the way

Nice one Jon1959

[The Lone Gunman]

"Talented" as individuals may be an overstatement but many believe on here that as a group, Trollope will galvanise these players into producing something, à la Pays de Galles, which I'm sure the Racing Post will not have factored in to their spreadsheet.

The Post's Football League tipsters are very thorough. They don't always go for the obvious bets by any means, as tips this season for Scunthorpe in League One, Carlisle in League Two and Lincoln in the National League demonstrate. However, they seem to be taking the opposite view to the majority of City fans who see Trollope as an improvement on Slade. The Post's verdict is that Slade did a "great job steering Cardiff to eighth last season" and Trollope may struggle to match that.

Personally, I'm not sure Slade did such a great job at all, but it was certainly a curious division last season. To me, Cardiff never appeared anything other than mediocre and it was a genuine surprise that they clung on to the tails of the top six for as long as they did. I can't offer any explanation as to why such an apparently limited side was able to stay in contention for so long, but I'll be amazed if what is effectively the same line-up will repeat the trick this time around unless either of the two foreign imports up front improve significantly on what they have achieved in their careers so far.

[Splott Dave]

I'm no accountant, and I don't really understand how Football Fair Play works (a failing I imagine I share with Derby County and other similar 'splash the cash' clubs), but it feels as if we turned a corner a while ago and are becoming a properly run club.

Tan is now sensibly keeping a low profile - but the return to blue and 'debt to equity' decisions were crucial.

Choo seems to be very competent, fan-focussed, and has hardly put a foot wrong so far.

Dalman is staying in the background, but club governance seems to have improved.

Trollope and his new coaching team seem to know what they're doing, have a Plan A, B and C, have shown flexibility and want a team that is fitter, more Welsh, and with room for youth players.

We have already signed 4 players (even if 2 were loans to permanent) and have a big and talented squad for our league.

We all want a few more players - especially goals and pace at the top of the pitch - but the if best chance of getting what we need is in the last week of the window when some or all of the Bomb Squad have departed, then so be it.

I don't know what to expect this season, but I do know I'm happier as a Cardiff fan than I have been for years.

Great post.

[MacAdder]

...The Post's verdict is that Slade did a "great job steering Cardiff to eighth last season" and Trollope may struggle to match that...

With what the club have confirmed in the OP, people can accept the limitations wrt personnel and the prospect of Championship football for a couple of seasons as long as the team 'plays some football' with some shape and an attacking strategy.

Again, good reasoning put forward but as I mentioned, I don't think people really care too much whether Trollope does better Slade's league placing of this year as long as they see crosses, shots, general entertainment.

[chepstow]

Fabio could be the first of four maybe even five players being sold during the transfer window. Manga (eventually his agent will get some interest to all his tabliod leaking!!) Noone, Marshall possibly and of course Ralls who is the right age and would be a snip at under £1m