Reply With QuoteDid they have the funds to keep the tax man away indefinately and keep the club afloat?Originally Posted by Vimana.
We were in serious financial sh!t. Without Tan theres the likelihood we would have been back in the sh!te.
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Tan was part of that initial consortium as I understand it. TG was the front man and Tan was the money. As you say he then upped the anti a year or two later.
Did they have the funds to keep the tax man away indefinately and keep the club afloat?
We were in serious financial sh!t. Without Tan theres the likelihood we would have been back in the sh!te.
Ah, OK. He was v. quiet at first then!
I thought I remembered some news headline stating that VT had been attracted to join the existing Consortium - but I seem to remember that was about 6 months or so later?
I cant be sure now.
Who knows - supposedly so (again, from news clip memory) but we will never know now! - Tan came in and did the Tan thing.
Just read back to that time to refresh the memory. TG arrived a few months before Tan and brought Tan on board.
Looking for investment so soon after getting involved would suggest TG wasnt really looking to use his own cash to prop us up.
Think before you type Chris. Which bit is bullshit? I'd just like to know. I moved from NP to CCS as part of a group of 9. Only 2 still have season tickets. Everything I typed is the reason why most of the other 7 don't go. Over the years I've introduced 15 family members to City, 6 of whom had ST's. Since I've stopped going they've stopped, that's 3 generations. Just for clarity, I've supported City for 47 years, been to 1000+ games, and still go to away games, as I prefer the atmosphere.bullshittan as destroyed your club, he wanted a certain identity and it did not work out.
relegation onwards the red plastic glory brigade left long ago
So no bullshit in what I posted just facts. Jog on.
That is the crux of it. I think Tan has kept to the position he outlined back in the meetings with media and invited fans back in February.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/f...-best-10879235
He may have hoped that Slade would take us into the play offs, but the main focus was on clearing the debt and making the club sustainable. That isn't a quick fix on or off the field and it will be frustrating for the fans.
However, there does seem to be a clear plan to get there. It would be helpful, as others have said, if Tan/Dalman/Choo would speak directly to fans again and explain in detail the 5 year plan and the constraints the club are working under, and explode some of the myths that are reappearing.
Sustainability is a good thing. I have a feeling some other clubs (Derby County for one) might be looking enviously in our direction in a year or two's time. There is no doubt that Tan made some monster mistakes with the club, but I see no evidence that he is walking away and the stated ambitions for the future (debt clearance, sustainable finances, youth development, local identity) are 100% right.
Last edited by jon1959; 30-08-16 at 21:14.
I thought tan put 6 mill in initially then became serious about taking over after the Blackpool game
Fair enough.
Somebody - supposedly TG - paid up HMRC and our debts , and got us able to ply our trade again ( I remember being very excited, happy and relieved) - all apparently 'before' VT surfaced.
Your hunch is that maybe VT was there all along - silent at first.
Seems v. plausible. We cannot know for absolute sure now I guess, and most importantly .. we are where we are now and we have to deal with that shit!
Simon Lim.
A horrendously poor decision & the catalyst in my opinion.
From working in a hotel to FD of City.
I think "No" is the answer to that question.
Just been reading up on it and TG initially invested 2m to stave off HMRC. Tan then invested 4m a few months later. Both were obviously hoping for a big return on that investment with promotion to the Premier League within weeks/months of their investment but we lost to Blackpool in the PO final.
Tan then got more heavily involved and started throwing more money at it whilst propping us up and servicing inherited debts.
Yes 2m then 4m is what I'm reading although it's not clear if the first 2m was invested as a silent partner or wether that was TGs money. I know TG was hailed as the saviour so I'd be surprised if that initial 2m was Tans as he surely wouldn't want to miss out on some adulation.
Maybe someone with a better memory and was closer to the club at that time can enlighten us.
Awful decision. He let Malky and Moody go 15m over budget ffs!!!
People are having a pop at Ken Choo for overseeing the austerity but in my opinion if he was CEO that summer or the summer after things could have been very different.
This is a good thread which I have only now caught upon.
However having read that we have a plan for sustainability and that we are in for a tough few years ahead etc, I have a few issues.
Probably my biggest remaining issue with Tan's model for running the club is that he seems to think he is playing football manager at times.
We seem to be duped by agents over and over and even in this time of "austerity" at the club our agent fees are still remarkably high.
I think Tan and the club could save themselves so much money by setting up a footballing structure at the top of the club with regards to a director of football and proper scouting network.
I don't believe that we have to face relegation battles year after year just because we're not throwing wads of cash at it year after year.
Swansea, Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley and others have all been promoted without having a bottomless pit of resources.
What these clubs did have was a clear vision and they were willing to stick to their plan knowing that if it didn't work out they wouldn't crash and burn.
What these clubs didn't do was sign two target men in the summer, decide they weren't the answer by the end of August and then panic and try to sign Kyle Lafferty!
This for me is a massive issue at the moment. I don't believe Paul Trollope had a part in signing these two foreign lad's and when we are running on a restricted budget we can't afford to blow large percentages of that budget on players who haven't been identified or approved by the manager.
^^ Good post.
What is Lennie's role in all this?
I meant for Tan to invest more into us, any money spent on us in the last few years would have been throwing it away, we could have spent 20 million a season like derby and still not gone up.
Bournemouth not a good example. One of the richest clubs in the league & an £8m FFP penalty. "little" Bournemouth duped everybody. Burnley a much better example of a sensibly run, austere club, with an excellent manager.
The problem with your suggestion Gringo is even with that set up we couldn't possibly trust Tan or his team to get in the right appointments in those roles.
Weve ended up with Russel Slade as a manager and we are now in a second hand for counting shit foreign strikers he's signed and the manager doesn't rate so doesn't play!!!
When he has thrown big money at it he's ended up with more donkeys than thoroughbreds.
It's just one bad decision after the other so there's no way you could trust him to get that kind of set up right.
Chris all tans efforts football wise are being ploughed into Los Angeles fc which will join the MLS in 2018. He is building a new stadium in the heart of low Angeles to rival the Galaxy. He is the major shareholder of the new football club so I am afraid we get little or no attention from him now
Well if that's the case Steve, he really needs to appoint someone who is capable of providing authoritative football input and is also experienced in the administrative side of the game at Cardiff - I feel Ken Choo has done a pretty good job up to now, but, while there was a time when the balance was too much the other way, we have become a club where the accountants win every argument with the football men and I firmly believe that is a recipe for disaster when there is so little money available to spend and so little football expertise among the money men.
Vincent Tan could do us a huge favour, which wouldn't cost him a penny, if he could just put the Malky Mackay experience to one side and realise that his way of running this football club is patently not working. At the moment, we are hamstrung when it comes to picking new managers because the field we choose from is restricted to a select few who our owner feels he can trust.
Des, rightly, calls Sean Dyche an excellent manager, but there is no way on earth we would have appointed him as Head Coach (that job title makes it sound like Paul Trollope has been told to just get on with providing a better team from the playing staff he has been given after the non football men on our completely unsuccessful Transfer Committee have finished their recruiting work!) this summer even if he was banging down the reception door in his desperation to work for Cardiff.
As Gringo says, it is possible to be "prudent" with our finances and maintain a place in this division. However, we aren't half making it harder for ourselves to do this than it could be because we place ourselves at such a disadvantage compared to other clubs like Ipswich and Birmingham. Unlike them, we fail to fully appreciate what a benefit a well run Academy could be at a time when money is tight and we also seem to be completely incapable of looking at levels below us in the domestic game when it comes to player recruitment.
Last edited by the other bob wilson; 31-08-16 at 05:54.
Think back to the late 70's, 80's and 90's or are you too young to remember those times?
Some really good posts on here and the last few have hit the nail on the head for me.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of Tan and the way he runs the club, the bottom line is that he knows nothing about football and how to run a football club.
Nothing wrong with that of course, there's plenty of rich owners that don't really understand football. However the difference between ones that make a success of it and ones that don't seems to be bringing football men on board and trusting them to make the football decisions.
If you look at clubs like ours, Blackburn, Leeds etc. there appears to be a common theme where the owners think they know what they're doing when everyone can see they haven't got a clue.
On the subject of cost cutting, I think most fans can accept that we need to live within our means and if that rules out a serious push at promotion then so be it. However as others have said above, there still needs to be some sort of plan and once again Tan is showing his complete lack of football knowledge by assuming that we can just tread water and survive at this level.
The truth is that, in any level of football, badly run clubs that stop going forwards inevitably end up going backwards - if we're not careful we could easily be in a relegation fight this season. Be honest, do we look to have enough character (on and off the pitch) to deal with that?
Personally I don't think we'll be any more positive by the end of today but here's hoping for a surprise or two.
This was 100% true when he took over ownership of Cardiff FC but he has been on a steep learning curve ever since and had clearly learned some expensive painful lessons. Re-educated by a few knowledgeable advisors, he has bought other European clubs and his continued commitment to and interest in football is obvious from his part share in LAFC.
The buzz word from the club is sustainablility and whether Tan continues with his CCFC journey has a lot to do with his mind-set and whether he still views it as a business. Will he cut his losses and put his Cardiff ordeal down to experience - or will he doggedly soldier on, hoping to win promotion on a pittance. Is he a quitter - or someone who hates to lose face? I still have images of him lapping up his contact with hi-pro personalities like Lord Fergusson during the Prem years and wonder if this also is a part of his psyche.
As I said before, we will know a lot more about our season-to-come at 23.01 tonight.
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh then.
'He used to know nothing, now he knows a little' would probably be more accurate.
That's how I remember it too. The original consortium appeared to have a long-term view for the club until Tan arrived and demanded Premier League football at any cost.
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