Reply With QuoteParachute payments running out. FFP. Umbungo.Originally Posted by insider
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It`s must be plainly obvious to even the most optimistic city fan that Tan is taking as much money out as he can before pissing off but will he make the club debt free before leaving?
I think if he wavered the debt that is owed to him we could be a club that a new investor could find an attractive proposition.
At the moment we are stagnating and haemorrhaging fans at an alarming rate. I for one hope he goes, closing the door on the worst period in the club`s history.
It`s sad that the club had built up a decent fan base from about 2008 on wards that has now been culled by one man`s ego.
I can`t see us signing anyone for anywhere near the money we have had in, in this transfer window.
Parachute payments running out. FFP. Umbungo.
I think that is rubbish to be fair , If you take it that we have already suffered an embargo and then had it lifted so we have been punished once for it.
If a value is then taken off the clubs debt then surely we can re-spend up to that value without going into an embargo again.
If Tan is manoeuvring into a position where we are more saleable , even if struggling n the pitch , but with the high earners gone then it's probably the best we can hope for.A sort of ground zero for someone to start again.
Small debt , ok staff and players , good stadium , reasonable fan base (though fickle ) might be an attractive proposition for someone ?
I think the only thing counted towards FFP calculation will be the interest payments on the debt, not the sum of the debt itself. I doubt these interest payments have been our biggest problem, compared to fees and wages.
Is it "Since62" who is the expert on the club accounts? Would be good if he has time to jump on this thread to give a bit of clarity.
I`d settle for that now mate, it then all depends on who buys us.
Me too mate. Possibly a consortium of a couple of rich painters and a mega rich plumber I know
Tan is not taking money out, but has stopped pumping money in.
The club has to make sure it can run within the FFP rules which mean a max average loss of £13m per season over a three season period - this in itself REQUIRES a capital injection of £8m per season under the rules or otherwise the cap is £5m. This is why Tan has already stated that there will be a debt to equity conversion of £8m per season for 5 seasons.
Under the FFP calculations the club made a loss of £10m in 2014/5 (although there was a disagreement with the EFL on the calculation), when we get the official figures for 2015/6 (which should be soon) we will then have an indication of the scale of the problem for the club for this season with the parachute payments falling.
Im still not totally convinced he is looking to sell, just it isn't the right time to invest
Are you the other forum multi grange_end1927
Blue in the Face is not talking rubbish as FFP, magnified by reducing parachute payments, has a lot to do with our current situation.
FFP relates to losses, I think the limit is £13m for this season which includes a max of £8m for shareholder investment & a £5m loss. Tan has set out his strategy to convert debt to equity of £8m per year for the next 5 years which should serve to make us debt free. The reason why he is structuring this over 5 years is to comply with FFP shareholder investment rules. I wouldn't be surprised that our pre transfer income this season will be around £20m which will be quickly swallowed up noting the number of high earners we have etc.
If Tan is taking out as much money as he can as you suggest, then why sanction the signings of say Emyr Hughes, Jazz Richards, Ben Amos & Joe Bennett who will all be earning very good salaries & in Huw's case a transfer fee estimated in excess of £1m was payable. Personally, I doubt very much he has taken a penny out but I also suspect that he does not want to put anymore in, hence a far more prudent approach to recruitment & a concerted effort to remove high earners from the wage bill.
Personally I am in favour of a debt free club operating within it's means so if this is achieved then we will be in the best financial position we have been for a long time & it can provide a firm foundation for the club to move forward. As you have said crowds are indeed dwindling & some of this is indeed down to Tan. That said, in my view far more is down to results on the pitch - if by some miracle we got promoted this season I am certain the crowds would come flocking back.
Tan has made lot's of mistakes, including wasting a lot of money via a number of bad choices, there is no doubt about that. However, I will be pleased if he delivers a debt free club as promised.
I am sure that Since 62 will be able to add to this & indeed correct me if I have any details wrong.
Well explained.
Tan CAN gamble under the current rules, but with 5/6 clubs already doing that this season it would be madness.
Also, he might not have the money free to do so, investing £150m out of £6-700m isn't chicken feed.
Recent events are a direct effect from bad decisions made over the past few seasons
Too many sensible posts on this thread, sadly they won't dispel the myth that Tan has pocketed all the parachute payments.
Worst period in the Club's history? You are severely deluded.
You can't be older than 6. Go to bed.
Ok I take on board a lot of what has been said about ffp but why not come out and communicate this with the fans and why say we have to get people off the wage bill to get people in when what has come in has been absolute dog shite.
Also a 5 year plan with this idiot at the top sounds like absolute purgatory to me especially when it is all his own doing.
He brought in the people to manage his cash the buck stops with him.
What was your highlight of the last few years?
The change of badge and team colour or becoming the laughing stock of the football community.
You must be a foetus suck you thumb and cuddle up in the womb.
All his own doing?????
The problem started long before he came. Or are you choosing to forget Sam Hammam , Riddler and us having winding up orders.
Have we actually announced a 5 year plan?
Pretty sure the club have stated we need players off the wage bill.
You and others are correct in saying that FFP is nothing to do with debt levels ( strangely) but the level of losses in the profit and loss account each season ( the season end is the same date as the financial year end) .
I have seen no evidence whatsoever that Vincent Tan has taken any money out of the club by way of either loan repayments or interest on those loans, but a small part of the loans due at 31 May 2015 ( the latest filed accounts) were said to be interest bearing- this May be waived in a future period as other loan charges have. I have also been assured by the CEO and Chairman at the club's holding company board meetings and when meeting them elsewhere that this lack of repayments remains the case.
In my personal opinion, which I have expressed at those board meetings, a lot of the current debt was unnecessarily run up as a result of very poor business decisions made by Vincent Tan and previous senior management he put in place. However, having strongly criticised this, both personally and in my Trust role, it is only fair to say that those mistakes have been recognised and strenuous efforts are being made to reverse those mistakes, no matter how unpopular those decisions are in the short term.
End of initial response as I am abroad on holiday and my wife is just about to give me severe grief for using the iPad. for CCFC stuff
Yes ALL his own doing.
Mega rich man X Ego X Debt = Huge Debt
Certainly for the money wasted, for the rebrand debacle and for the fans lost this has to be the worst period in the club's history. If you look at it since the return to blue only then it's certainly been a disappointing but the worst period preceded it and we've had many similarly disappointing periods.
Not that I'm convinced anyone would want to buy us, but for any foreign investment surely now would be a great time to invest?
I must have dreamt those winding up orders then.
A buzz-word that has come out of the club recently is SUSTAINABILITY.....
No you never .
But the debt owed in those winding up orders was no where near the level of debt this numpty has run up.
Which is the better debt ?
The current one.
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