The Cardiff way.

[the other bob wilson]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/c...lans-11864185?

Fair play, this is the sort of thing many (myself included) have been asking for and so I suppose the question is now will Messrs Tan, Dalman, Choo etc. have the patience to stick to the plan if and when things are going wrong?

The same applies equally to supporters I'd say - maybe things will look different three months down the line, but the article makes it look like this is a long term project and so, if those in charge really feel Paul Trollope is the man for the job, then I suppose calling for a change of manager (something which I'd be expecting to hear within a fortnight under normal circumstances if results continued as they have been) is a bit pointless.

Watching Rickie Lambert's interview, it seemed to me that he meant it when he said Trollope was a key factor in getting him to come to Cardiff and I think that tends to prove the point that while our Head Coach does not have that big a reputation, he appears to be highly regarded within the game - I'd like to think he could be the man to getting us playing to "the Cardiff way" if he is given the time and, very importantly, the freedom to get on with the job.

[Max23]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/c...lans-11864185?

Fair play, this is the sort of thing many (myself included) have been asking for and so I suppose the question is now will Messrs Tan, Dalman, Choo etc. have the patience to stick to the plan if and when things are going wrong?

The same applies equally to supporters I'd say - maybe things will look different three months down the line, but the article makes it look like this is a long term project and so, if those in charge really feel Paul Trollope is the man for the job, then I suppose calling for a change of manager (something which I'd be expecting to hear within a fortnight under normal circumstances if results continued as they have been) is a bit pointless.

Watching Rickie Lambert's interview, it seemed to me that he meant it when he said Trollope was a key factor in getting him to come to Cardiff and I think that tends to prove the point that while our Head Coach does not have that big a reputation, he appears to be highly regarded within the game - I'd like to think he could be the man to getting us playing to "the Cardiff way" if he is given the time and, very importantly, the freedom to get on with the job.

I like this very much, a long term strategy.......

[Barry Shitpeas]

I like this very much, a long term strategy.......

Agree. It does mean of course that the fans may have to be patient too. Hopefully if the club can get the message across to the fans that it's a long term project, then they will be more likely to get behind the team when things aren't going so well rather than boooing and leaving early.

[jon1959]

It is the right thing to do - and picks up on a number of encouraging statements by the club in the summer.

I also think that fans will give the manager and the club a lot more slack if they believe there is a long-term plan in place and a clear identity on and off the pitch.

It doesn't matter to me whether Cardiff adopts the current Wales approach or not - as long as whatever we do is based on the qualities and assets of Cardiff City Football Club and its supporters. I think it is a happy coincidence that Trollope inherited a squad that looked suited to play in a similar fashion to Wales - with Fabio and John better suited as wing backs than full backs, and a strength at centre back. Then Turner is released, Fabio and Marshall sold and the jury well and truly out on the new way of playing after the first block of league games. But Trollope and the playing system need time.

The two issues that I have with 'The Cardiff Way' are around youth policy and the boardroom.

The Academy sides and u23s seem to be playing the same way as the first team - with more success and invention. There has been a consistent story about giving youth a route into the first team, and some of the early signs were positive (I think what happens with Tutonda might be the test). Trollope talked today about the u18s and u23s mixing and training with the first team during the international break and how he wants to integrate them much more and to draw on youth/development players (by implication) more than has happened in the recent past. However, there are the reports of major job cuts in coaches and support staff for the Academy. I have no idea about the staffing levels in the Academy (other than the management team profiles on the website) or the implications to Academy status and quality of coaching with these cuts - but it would be good for the club to explain the thinking (other than simple cost reductions) and if possible reassure fans.

In the boardroom and the Recruitment Panel there is a lack of football experience - and no-one in a Director of Football role with strategic oversight of The Cardiff Way. That looks like a weakness, even if Trollope and Lawrence are contributing to the vision and have an effective veto on recruitment. The implication of various interviews with Dalman, Choo, Trollope etc is that Vincent Tan must OK every recruit, but that the club won't sign anyone if Trollope doesn't also OK it. Plenty of fans think Vincent Tan imposes new players on his managers, but I have never been convinced of that. It doesn't look like there will be any change soon in the boardroom, but I would like to see someone brought in who can advise and guide the board (and support the manager) to achieve that organisational and cultural change. Someone like Osian Roberts would be fantastic, but I would also be happy with Lennie Lawrence taking on a different role in the club to provide that oversight and experience. That would then leave a coaching vacancy for Bellers!

[Blue in the Face]

Double posted for the 2nd time today. Soz.

Here's the full article...

.................................................. ...............

Cardiff City reveal ambitious plans for 'The Bluebirds Way' as they seek fresh Welsh-led identity

Owner Vincent Tan wants Welsh-based plans off the field of play to back up Bluebirds having their own playing style mirrored on Wales' Euro aces

Cardiff City are bringing in what they dub a DNA and identity for the club which they believe will hold the Bluebirds in good stead for decades to come.

Based on Wales' successful Euro 2016 methods and unofficially titled 'The Cardiff Way', manager Paul Trollope has been asked to implement a style of play that becomes synonymous with the Bluebirds.

Trollope has already got the plan up and running on the field of play, mirroring the 3-5-2 formation utilised so successfully on the world stage by Gareth Bale and his Wales team-mates.

But the proposal runs much deeper than just what happens with Trollope's players.

The Bluebirds hierarchy have ambitious plans in place to persuade fans in the Welsh capital and its surrounding valleys to have a fresh identity with their local club and follow the team on a more regular basis.

Greater Welsh corporate involvement is also on the cards.

The ethos of the Cardiff Way is designed to put an end to the type of boom-bust scenarios we have seen with the Bluebirds in recent times.

Manager wise they have gone from one extreme to the other - from the defensive-minded Malky Mackay, to free spirit Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and more recently the boring football served up under Russell Slade.

Each of those managers had a different style of play. Future bosses will be asked to model tactics on the Cardiff Way... which Trollope has started to implement.

Bluebirds chief executive Ken Choo explained: "The club needs an identity, more Welsh players for the Welsh people to get behind. Vincent Tan asked Paul Trollope to begin that process and we have begun doing it.

"Paul knows it is about results, but he also says that we as Board members and the fans need to give him time to build this pattern of play.

"So, for example, our under-21s have replicated the exact same system and have won their last four matches playing that way.

"The under-18s also play with the same tactics and they're doing well too. We're trying it lower down further. So when future players from those sides make the grade into the senior team, they will be comfortable and familiar with the style adopted."

That is exactly the system that has been brought in with Wales, Chris Coleman's No2 Osian Roberts insisting every age-grade team mirrors the style utilised by Bale and Co at senior level.

Roberts tells the younger players it is The Welsh Way. Choo calls the Bluebirds plan The Cardiff Way.

He continued: "Vincent has outlined his vision to us and we are just starting to roll it out. This is a multi-departmental strategy, it's not just about the playing side of things.

"So, for example, commercially we are looking to bring more Welsh companies into the fold and you will see greater participation from them in the next six to 12 months.

"We have software in place and have brought experts on board to look at how we can target greater support, particularly from the Valleys which has been a stronghold for Cardiff City.

"Underpinning it is the playing side and the need for more Welsh involvement.

"Vincent planned this before Wales' success in the Euros, identified it as the direction in which we should be going. Remember, we appointed a Welshman in Paul Trollope to the top job before anything happened out in France and encouraged him to be part of the Wales coaching set-up out there.

"We have signed a number of Welsh players. James Rowberry, the youngest holder of a UEFA pro-licence badge, is part of Paul's backroom team. We have Martyn Margetson as goalkeeping coach. He's gone to England, but he was part of the Wales set-up. Ryland Morgans, Performance Director with Wales, has joined us too.

"It's a way of bringing this Cardiff identity. Liverpool play a certain way, so will Cardiff.

"Their fans support the team win or lose, provided they play the Liverpool way.

"You have to stick with something and build the whole strategy around that. Paul Trollope doesn't want to lose games, but he knows he has to build something more fundamental for the football club as a whole."

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/c...plans-11864185

[thehumblegringo]

(I posted this in the wrong thread)

I have been a long time advocate of all our teams being set up the same way as the first team however I read an article the other day that challenged my thinking on this subject.

What if we unearth a for example 12 year old lad's who is a superb footballer who doesn't fit into that style of play?

Do we make him fit our way or do we adapt to get the best out of the lad for his development?

I think the DVP and the u18s should play a system where those players can immediately fit into the first team when called upon but beyond that I now have my reservations.

It's great that the club are doing something to address our lack of footballing identity but I hope this "Welshness" doesn't straight jacket us from accruing players from England and elsewhere.

I think we need to be careful in trying to replicate Wales Euro strategy as club and country are two completely different things.

We should br looking for a footballing identity and a style of play that is attractive and is based on (hopefully) creativity and flair but we should also be able to adapt.

[surge]

Many positives in that, although playing the Welsh way as Cardiff may make everything slightly more limited as we can only play one formation. Wales at their best had a definite preference to get the best out of the team however could also play three different styles in four different games....focus on traits and formations should be allowed a certain level of flexibility.

[Tandy]

Anyone remember doing a Cardiff? The opposition must be shitting their pants when they hear of us doing it the Cardiff way.

[the other bob wilson]

It is the right thing to do - and picks up on a number of encouraging statements by the club in the summer.

I also think that fans will give the manager and the club a lot more slack if they believe there is a long-term plan in place and a clear identity on and off the pitch.

It doesn't matter to me whether Cardiff adopts the current Wales approach or not - as long as whatever we do is based on the qualities and assets of Cardiff City Football Club and its supporters. I think it is a happy coincidence that Trollope inherited a squad that looked suited to play in a similar fashion to Wales - with Fabio and John better suited as wing backs than full backs, and a strength at centre back. Then Turner is released, Fabio and Marshall sold and the jury well and truly out on the new way of playing after the first block of league games. But Trollope and the playing system need time.

The two issues that I have with 'The Cardiff Way' are around youth policy and the boardroom.

The Academy sides and u23s seem to be playing the same way as the first team - with more success and invention. There has been a consistent story about giving youth a route into the first team, and some of the early signs were positive (I think what happens with Tutonda might be the test). Trollope talked today about the u18s and u23s mixing and training with the first team during the international break and how he wants to integrate them much more and to draw on youth/development players (by implication) more than has happened in the recent past. However, there are the reports of major job cuts in coaches and support staff for the Academy. I have no idea about the staffing levels in the Academy (other than the management team profiles on the website) or the implications to Academy status and quality of coaching with these cuts - but it would be good for the club to explain the thinking (other than simple cost reductions) and if possible reassure fans.

In the boardroom and the Recruitment Panel there is a lack of football experience - and no-one in a Director of Football role with strategic oversight of The Cardiff Way. That looks like a weakness, even if Trollope and Lawrence are contributing to the vision and have an effective veto on recruitment. The implication of various interviews with Dalman, Choo, Trollope etc is that Vincent Tan must OK every recruit, but that the club won't sign anyone if Trollope doesn't also OK it. Plenty of fans think Vincent Tan imposes new players on his managers, but I have never been convinced of that. It doesn't look like there will be any change soon in the boardroom, but I would like to see someone brought in who can advise and guide the board (and support the manager) to achieve that organisational and cultural change. Someone like Osian Roberts would be fantastic, but I would also be happy with Lennie Lawrence taking on a different role in the club to provide that oversight and experience. That would then leave a coaching vacancy for Bellers!

Can't help thinking that Bellamy has too many connections to a certain former City manager who also played for Norwich Jon!

I'm not as convinced as you are about Tan not imposing new players on new managers (or he makes it very hard for them to say no at least!), but, to be fair, not all of the players who I'd categorise as "Tan signings" have been disasters - I'd agree with the rest of your final paragraph though.

As for your penultimate one, Ken Choo places great store in young players having the opportunity to train with the senior squad in this piece

http://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news/...-3299035.aspx?

and could it be that the club are trying to kill two birds with one stone here by covering some of the rumoured staff losses by this greater involvement with the seniors? You have to feel for anyone who has, or is going to, lost their jobs of course, but this could be a way that something good could come of it in footballing terms at least.

I have to take issue with Ken Choo on one point though and that's when he says the Under 23s have used the same system as the first team in each of their matches so far. This isn't true because I watched them play with a flat back four against Leeds in their first home match and I know for a fact that they caught Colchester on the hop somewhat on Monday because I heard their coach Wayne Brown telling his team that they would be facing a side who would play with a diamond formation in midfield - I thought the same, because I was thinking Tom James would play left back, but instead he was there alongside Meyanese and Blaise at centreback with the impressive Rees and Weymans as wing backs.

In the event, the formation used against Colchester was the one the first team have been playing all season, but, at Under 16,18 and 23 levels I've seen a tactical flexibility which goes to the heart of Gringo's question about a talented youngster who was not a specialist in the 3-5-2, 5-3-2 system.

When I think of other sides who became known for playing the game in a certain way, I don't see all of those teams being wedded to one particular formation. You've only got to go forty mile down west to see an example of this - for me, there has definitely been a "Swansea way" which began with the appointment of Roberto Martinez as manager. However, they have not stuck with the same formation religiously as, for example, they have sometimes used a front two as opposed to the more normal single striker - incidentally, I believe there is a chance that the jacks will be relegated this season because the current club seems to have deviated from the "Swansea way" in the last year or so.

Shouldn't trying to forge a club identity for yourselves mean that you will try to do this by playing the game in a certain way, rather than saying that this needs to be done while playing a particular formation? An approach like that means that a way would be found for accommodating Gringo's very talented twelve year old, rather than trying to shoehorn him into a system he is not comfortable with.

If there is a problem with 3-5-2/5-3-2 at the moment it seems to be in the first team because I've seen the Under 18s and 21s play some entertaining football while using it this season. If that was replicated at first team level, you may see a slight increase in attendances even if the results were not too dissimilar to the current ones, but crowds are going to go in the opposite direction if we see more games where our three man central midfield is able to muster just 32 per cent possession - yes, results are the main determiner of crowd levels and I know possession stats are not as important as they were once thought to be, but your average punter wants to see his team on the ball and will soon lose some interest if watching matches where their team is only in possession for a third of the time becomes the norm.

The stats say we haven't been very good at playing a possession based game since we got relegated and if the intention is that the "Cardiff way" will incorporate a method which is more based on us having the ball, as I believe it is, then, perhaps, we need to be prepared for quite a long wait before we see it being incorporated fully into the first team? In the meantime, maybe there is a need for a bit more of the sort of tactical flexibility being seen below first team level - I'm not saying three centrebacks needs to be abandoned, but perhaps it shouldn't be the only show in town (something which appears to be the case currently)?

[Lawnmower]

These rumoured academy cuts.
Does anyone have anything except from a rumour from **** to back it up ?

I have heard there have been cuts in stewarding and catering staff, also in the marketing team at the club - basically because there just isn't the work for them given current interest, but nothing about the academy.

Has someone taken staff cuts at the club and expanded it a little ??

[A Quiet Monkfish]

If the club had a good [by Championship standards] squad of players, and had few restrictions on what players they could bring in, I doubts we would be hearing about 'the Cardiff Way'. For 100 years football success has been predominately achieved by assembling 11 good players you can put on the pitch, a getting them to play together.

I wonder to what extent Wales' success has influenced Trollope & Co. To be brutally honest, I doubt many would argue that without Gareth Bale Wales are pretty average. The system, the ethos which Wales employ is a contributory factor, but the reason Wales are currently a success can be put down mainly to one man..

[the other bob wilson]

If the club had a good [by Championship standards] squad of players, and had few restrictions on what players they could bring in, I doubts we would be hearing about 'the Cardiff Way'. For 100 years football success has been predominately achieved by assembling 11 good players you can put on the pitch, a getting them to play together.

I wonder to what extent Wales' success has influenced Trollope & Co. To be brutally honest, I doubt many would argue that without Gareth Bale Wales are pretty average. The system, the ethos which Wales employ is a contributory factor, but the reason Wales are currently a success can be put down mainly to one man..

A couple of things I'd say to that. First, if there really is to be a "Cardiff Way" where there is greater recognition and involvement for the Academy system, then you'd like to think that the chances of getting the eleven good players you talk about should be increased because it's an avenue that wasn't being explored under our previous manager and, with the kids involved realising that, it was hardly an environment in which they were going to excel.

As for Wales, there is a strong case for saying that they are as strong now as they've ever been and I agree that without Bale, this would not be the case. However, when you see things like a centreback who has played in the Premier League for nearly all of his career and a midfielder who has a current Premier League Champions medal not being part of our first choice eleven, I'd say that this is a stronger Welsh team than most I've seen, even if Bale wasn't involved.

[thehumblegringo]

If the club had a good [by Championship standards] squad of players, and had few restrictions on what players they could bring in, I doubts we would be hearing about 'the Cardiff Way'. For 100 years football success has been predominately achieved by assembling 11 good players you can put on the pitch, a getting them to play together.

I wonder to what extent Wales' success has influenced Trollope & Co. To be brutally honest, I doubt many would argue that without Gareth Bale Wales are pretty average. The system, the ethos which Wales employ is a contributory factor, but the reason Wales are currently a success can be put down mainly to one man..

I think the class of 92 would be near enough impossible to replicate in the premier league the way it has evolved into the last 20 years, but I believe it would be possible to acheivement this in our league if you were patient enough in getting promotion.

My only concern would be that the championship is so physical then it would be very difficult to bring through 4 or 5 players at once. This is where the u23 should be weaning in kids like Coxe and Harris etc so they'll have time to adapt to the more physical demands of adult football.

I think I'd be correct in saying that a lot of the dvp squads we face are a lot younger than the lads we put out and is the main reason why I sometimes struggle to get excited about their results.

Players like Wharton, Healy and O'Sullivan shouldn't be playing in this league at this stage of their career and if they're still not ready to step up then they should be considering moving to pastures new.

[Blue in the Face]

These rumoured academy cuts.
Does anyone have anything except from a rumour from **** to back it up ?

I have heard there have been cuts in stewarding and catering staff, also in the marketing team at the club - basically because there just isn't the work for them given current interest, but nothing about the academy.

Has someone taken staff cuts at the club and expanded it a little ??

Anyone have an answer for this?