The right wing on this board..

[Splott David]

all fine and dandy for the german and austrian jews who could pay the nazis to leave, not so good for the vast majority of eastern european jews who were given no choice.

As Ken Livingstone has made clear you have to remember that Zionists and Nazis cooperated with one another for years as both political ideologies had areas of mutual interests. The Zionists only wanted reasonably wealthy Jews who were at least sympathetic to Zionist objectives, in addition to the wealthy the young were welcome as potential fighters, who would be required at some time in the future to establish a state. Mussolini gave Zionists a training base in Italy while Nazi Germany allowed them to have 40 training bases across Germany, from 1933 up until 1940.

[lardy]

What also has to be factored in is that in the 1930's approximately 1% of all European groups were dying of perfectly natural causes every year, in addition the site makes no attempt to explain the amount of cross border illegal emigration during the period. We know that many people went through Turkey and Iran from accounts that exist at that time.

The conclusion quite obviously, once again I'm not arguing about the rights or wrongs of the policies, is that there was an official policy of emigration and not extermination.

You could try and explain manipulation? The figures are quite clear.

You're asking me to explain your manipulation? That's for you to do. Where did 70%+ by 1939 and 200k austrians come from? The figures are clear, yours aren't.

[Splott David]

You're asking me to explain your manipulation? That's for you to do. Where did 70%+ by 1939 and 200k austrians come from? The figures are clear, yours aren't.

You'll be denying an emigration policy next that went on for over seven years. You except that 60,000 went to Palestine, were you aware the this was on Nazi flagged ships sailing from Hamburg? As I said I'm not making any comment on the rights or wrongs of the policy but what this site clearly establishes is that cooperation took place over many years between Zionist and Nazis. Ken Livingstone was severely criticised for mentioning precisely the same thing. Now Jackie Walker, who herself is a descendant of Jamaican Jewish slave owners, is suffering the same wailing screaming cries for her to be thrown out of the Labour party for simply pointing to the truth and expressing a perfectly reasonable point. We've had Jackie Walker, Ken Livingstone, Jeremy Corbyn and the ex Lib-Dem MP, all pilloried by fanatical pro-Zionist Jewish groups, who are determined to suppress facts, truth, or any type of free speech.

[lardy]

Instead of using the forum as a soapbox, why don't you answer the simple question that I've asked twice?

[Splott David]

Instead of using the forum as a soapbox, why don't you answer the simple question that I've asked twice?

Do you deny the top and bottom figures? Simple question, yes or no?

The only thing that you dispute is 1939. So December 31st 1939 is okay, but January 1st 1940 is not?

Of what significance does this nit-picking have on the overall result of things?

[lardy]

Do you deny the top and bottom figures? Simple question, yes or no?

The only thing that you dispute is 1939. So December 31st 1939 is okay, but January 1st 1940 is not?

Of what significance does this nit-picking have on the overall result of things?

I'll give you the courtesy you rarely give others and answer your question. No, I'm not disputing the figures in the link, I'm questioning your misinterpretation.

"Before 1939" means by the time 1939 had begun. When your mum told you to be home before 7, did she mean 7.30? The difference between 1939 (or before Sep 1939) and 1940 is huge, you know this.

Looking at the site we are all using, they say 282k German Jews by Sep 1939 (a sensible cut off time for obvious reasons), which is almost 100k below the number you're using.

Why is it significant? Well, that extra 100k were hardly being safely sent to the UK, like a good number of pre-war emigrants, were they?

Interestingly, the site also says "By October 1941, when Jewish emigration was officially forbidden, the number of Jews in Germany had declined to 163,000." The exact same figure you were using as your 1940 figure - Jan 1st 1940, eh?

Now, how about the 200k Austrian Jews? Where was that number from?


Just to remind you of your quote:

"That's the same site which confirms that 70%+ of all German Jews had emigrated from Germany legally before 1939. In addition to the 200,000 which had left Austria. "

[Splott David]

I'll give you the courtesy you rarely give others and answer your question. No, I'm not disputing the figures in the link, I'm questioning your misinterpretation.

"Before 1939" means by the time 1939 had begun. When your mum told you to be home before 7, did she mean 7.30? The difference between 1939 (or before Sep 1939) and 1940 is huge, you know this.

Looking at the site we are all using, they say 282k German Jews by Sep 1939 (a sensible cut off time for obvious reasons), which is almost 100k below the number you're using.

Why is it significant? Well, that extra 100k were hardly being safely sent to the UK, like a good number of pre-war emigrants, were they?

Interestingly, the site also says "By October 1941, when Jewish emigration was officially forbidden, the number of Jews in Germany had declined to 163,000." The exact same figure you were using as your 1940 figure - Jan 1st 1940, eh?

Now, how about the 200k Austrian Jews? Where was that number from?


Just to remind you of your quote:

"That's the same site which confirms that 70%+ of all German Jews had emigrated from Germany legally before 1939. In addition to the 200,000 which had left Austria. "

Are you denying that 163,000 people were left? No.

Are you denying that the population was officially 523,000? No.

That's 363,000 people that legally emigrated from Nazi Germany.

Separately some 10,000 children left Germany via the Kindertransport.

That's a total of 373,000 people that left legally, the balance was 163,000 people who were left as of 1941.

The percentage who left legally is still the same.

Approximately 16,300 of those left, 1% of the population, would die from natural causes per annum in line with the same percentages across Europe at that time.

What's not revealed or discussed in the article is the number of people who left Germany illegally during the period.

[lardy]

So now we have to ask the question - why would a man with Splott David's reputation repeatedly lie and exaggerate the number of Jews who left Germany and Austria before the war began?