The right wing on this board..

[Mrs Steve R]

Alternative to who?

It presents the alternative view to main stream news but it's really main stream news, controlled opposition.

[TruBlue]

It presents the alternative view to main stream news but it's really main stream news, controlled opposition.

Like saying Prince George is a Girl just to say alternative stuff?

[Mrs Steve R]

Like saying Prince George is a Girl just to say alternative stuff?

For people like me who haven't realized that they are controlled opposition yet

[David Vincent]

"I think a motive for a political position is important. For example, the only reason most Muslims are against Israel is because they see their coreligionists being oppressed. They are not too bothered about oppression in general it is just that they don't like seeing Muslims being oppressed. For all I know you could be a Muslim and that is your motive."

You are aware that of the 800,000 Palestinians that were ethnically cleansed form historical Palestine in 1948 some 200,000 were Christians from the north of Galilee. In fact Palestinian Christians have remained under attack from Israel ever since. There have been constant complaints from the Christian communities about how they are being treated by Israelis ever since.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/israel-...xisted/207728/

"It could be that as a self-declared left winger you feel that being anti-Israel is part of the package."

It could just be that I recognise a number of things about Israel, such as it's a modern day Sparta which is always looking for enemies that it can dominate and whine about the danger that it sees from their very existence. Or the fact that the state was founded on terrorism, by terrorists for terrorists, it was after all the ISIS of the 1940's.

It could be that in its famous declaration that it would "seek to be a light unto other nations" what was really meant was that it would drop phosphorus bombs on school children at times when they were coming out of their schools in Gaza. It could be (as I pointed out to you the other day) that Revisionist Zionism was always fascist in design and intent and that it has been the overwhelming strand of Zionism that has occupied Israeli politics and society since the early 1970's.

Or it could be that as a nuclear armed state which seeks to provoke, interfere, or start conflicts all over the Middle East without impunity, restraint and with a complete disregard for international law, I find somewhat troubling.

Then again it could be that the systematic racism and apartheid is worse than what millions of right thinking people fought against successfully in South Africa and that is why the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement (BDS) globally is meeting with increasing success on bring pressure to bear on Israel.

Or like millions of people of conscience all over the world it could be that I recognise the injustice that was perpetrated on a peaceful and successful Palestinian community and that I object to attempts to erase their memory, their villages, towns, churches and mosques in a systematic effort to rewrite history in favour of 3,000 year old campfire myths and legends.

"Is this a single issue thing with you or do you think other "indigenous peoples" are entitled to complain about settlement by "non-indigenous peoples" who have totally different cultural values to themselves?"



Well we could do a litmus test on that if you like. Let me know when you'll be in and I'll come around and dispossess you of your property and point you in the direction of the nearest cardboard box and see if you're agreeable to my 'cultural values'?


"This is particularly important if the non-indigenous peoples have a higher birth rate than the indigenous people because maths and history tell us that will inevitably lead to the indigenous people becoming second class citizens."


Every study shows conclusively that the Palestinian birthrate far outnumbers that of the Israelis, had you had studied the situation properly you would know that. Only the other day a full page advert was taken out in the New York Times pointing to the threat to Israel from this and calling for a complete segregation of Israel from the Palestinians.

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs...-york-times-ad

"the fighting and the theft started a long time after Jews legally moved to Palestine and bought land from the Arabs."

People didn't move 'legally' to Palestine to commit murder, ethnic cleansing and the killing of more British service personnel than we lost in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq put together.


"the killing of 784 British police officers, servicemen, Crown servants and civilian staff by Jewish terrorists in the Palestine Mandate crisis between 1944–48."

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net...stine-mandate/

The concepts of suicide bombing, cafe bombings, car bombings, plane hi-jacking were all introduced to the Middle East by fanatical Jewish terrorists, not Muslims.

Anyone reading through the list of atrocities that were perpetrated against British troops between 1945 and 1948 would be left in no doubt about the malevolent nature of Jewish fanaticism and their determination to achieve their ends at any cost

http://www.britishforcesinpalestine.org/events45.html

I don't disagree with anything you have written and there is nothing you have written which I didn't already know but you are still avoiding my point.

You have given many examples of the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians but you seem unwilling to try to understand this on a more general level. The closest you have come is when you said Zionism is fascism. But the main ingredients of fascism were a dictator, a one party state and anti-liberalism. The Zionists are very diverse and they don't have a dictator. They have many political parties representing all sorts of views. Some Zionists are religious and others are atheists. Some have very liberal attitudes and some of them have medieval attitudes.

Isn't more logical to see the current situation in Israel as an example of what happens when settlers eventually outnumber the indigenous population and make them second class citizens? We have seen this happen so many times in history and I can't think of any exceptions. That is the question I have been trying to get you to answer.

If you can think of some exceptions to this then it would reinforce your argument against Zionists. But if you can't think of exceptions then perhaps we should see the oppression of Palestinians as the inevitable and unfortunate consequence of an indigenous population becoming outnumbered.

Can you relate any of this to the Islamic settlement of Europe? The left wing position on religion has now been reversed by those who decide what left wing and right wing mean. In the past the left wing was strongly opposed to religion and now it is a strong supporter of Islam and any criticism of it is seen as Islamophobia just as any criticism of Zionism is seen as anti-Semitism.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

First of all there are not thousands of media outlets. Six major corporations control virtually all broadcasting in the USA. The views of those corporations will be the ones that the various news editors will adhere to. The same applies in the UK. Look how ownership of media is controlled by a handful of companies and individuals. With Rupert Murdoch, he controlled 60 different national newspapers across the world, when it came to the invasion of Iraq all of the 60 editors followed the same line precisely. None of them took a different editorial view or altered the message approved by him by one line.

The USA is not the world. And 60 newspapers doesn't represent every newspaper in the world.

[Splott David]

The USA is not the world. And 60 newspapers doesn't represent every newspaper in the world.

TBG, either you accept that corporate news agencies have their own agenda, their own preferences on how news is handled and disseminated or you don't. I've selected examples to show that this is the case and that it is common practice. You could try doing the research for yourself and I'm sure that you'l find many more examples. It's not just about commission but omission as well, both are useful tools that can be employed to persuade people to think of an issue in a certain way. Look at the propaganda that has been relentlessly pumped out by corporate media with smear campaigns about Jeremy Corbyn? Go and look at the research that the LSE have done on it. See what their conclusions are.

[Splott David]

I don't disagree with anything you have written and there is nothing you have written which I didn't already know but you are still avoiding my point.

You have given many examples of the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians but you seem unwilling to try to understand this on a more general level. The closest you have come is when you said Zionism is fascism. But the main ingredients of fascism were a dictator, a one party state and anti-liberalism. The Zionists are very diverse and they don't have a dictator. They have many political parties representing all sorts of views. Some Zionists are religious and others are atheists. Some have very liberal attitudes and some of them have medieval attitudes.

Isn't more logical to see the current situation in Israel as an example of what happens when settlers eventually outnumber the indigenous population and make them second class citizens? We have seen this happen so many times in history and I can't think of any exceptions. That is the question I have been trying to get you to answer.

If you can think of some exceptions to this then it would reinforce your argument against Zionists. But if you can't think of exceptions then perhaps we should see the oppression of Palestinians as the inevitable and unfortunate consequence of an indigenous population becoming outnumbered.

Can you relate any of this to the Islamic settlement of Europe? The left wing position on religion has now been reversed by those who decide what left wing and right wing mean. In the past the left wing was strongly opposed to religion and now it is a strong supporter of Islam and any criticism of it is seen as Islamophobia just as any criticism of Zionism is seen as anti-Semitism.

David, you need to go and read a lot more about Zionism. It's a secular political ideology which has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

[LordKenwyne]

David, you need to go and read a lot more about Zionism. It's a secular political ideology which has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

David Vincent gives his time to create a well writing post, of a good length. He has done a few times in this thread actually.

Then you give him two sentences saying he should go and educate himself.

[Feedback]

David Vincent gives his time to create a well writing post, of a good length. He has done a few times in this thread actually.

Then you give him two sentences saying he should go and educate himself.

whereas you obviously do not.

sorry, couldnt resist

[Splott David]

David Vincent gives his time to create a well writing post, of a good length. He has done a few times in this thread actually.

Then you give him two sentences saying he should go and educate himself.

I think that I said, "David you need to go and read a lot more about Zionism." I don't believe that I mentioned anything related to education.

[TruBlue]

TBG, either you accept that corporate news agencies have their own agenda, their own preferences on how news is handled and disseminated or you don't. I've selected examples to show that this is the case and that it is common practice. You could try doing the research for yourself and I'm sure that you'l find many more examples. It's not just about commission but omission as well, both are useful tools that can be employed to persuade people to think of an issue in a certain way. Look at the propaganda that has been relentlessly pumped out by corporate media with smear campaigns about Jeremy Corbyn? Go and look at the research that the LSE have done on it. See what their conclusions are.

What about PressTV? Or RT?

You've often linked to them. Don't they have an agenda? Or Omit certain info that shows them in a bad light? Or try to influence with disinformation.

[LordKenwyne]

I think that I said, "David you need to go and read a lot more about Zionism." I don't believe that I mentioned anything related to education.

Nah.

If you know so much, tell him. Why does he need to go learn about it?.

A dressed up version of your inarticulate, "go read a book" comments to me.

[Splott David]

What about PressTV? Or RT?

You've often linked to them. Don't they have an agenda? Or Omit certain info that shows them in a bad light? Or try to influence with disinformation.

I've been the first to say that they do, when it concerns Russia's perceived national interests. But those issues and subject matter are easily identified. With Press TV it is somewhat different they occasionally come out with some very fine documentaries in much the same way as AL-Jazeera do. With RT you get a lot more involvement and open discussion on geo-political matters, with some fresh and interesting perspectives that we don't tend to get on British media.

[Wales-Bales]

What about PressTV? Or RT?

You've often linked to them. Don't they have an agenda? Or Omit certain info that shows them in a bad light? Or try to influence with disinformation.

That's why you also need the BBC, then you will find the truth out there somewhere It's only information boundaries, not rocket science. Finding out the truth happens every day in a court of law, but when it comes to the media people tend to swallow everything hook, line and sinker from their preferred news source. All media is propaganda and disinformation. You need to disseminate and cross-reference material from a wide range of disparate sources, and learn how to spot what is the truth and what are lies. And don't forget qui bono?

[TruBlue]

I've been the first to say that they do, when it concerns Russia's perceived national interests. But those issues and subject matter are easily identified. With Press TV it is somewhat different they occasionally come out with some very fine documentaries in much the same way as AL-Jazeera do. With RT you get a lot more involvement and open discussion on geo-political matters, with some fresh and interesting perspectives that we don't tend to get on British media.

Every issue on there has Russian interest at heart.

Remember a few years ago when Gluey was jumping about wetting his nappy with excitement than Max Keiser was saying the LSE would collapse within a few months. That was clearly disinformation sent to hurt the UK economy but one of your "critical thinkers" was all over it. This isn't an isolated incident of where they have being critical of the UK and it's turned out to be nonsense.

Additionally a number of ex employees have come out and said about the whole thing being propaganda.

[TruBlue]

That's why you also need the BBC, then you will find the truth out there somewhere It's only information boundaries, not rocket science. Finding out the truth happens every day in a court of law, but when it comes to the media people tend to swallow everything hook, line and sinker from their preferred news source. All media is propaganda and disinformation. You need to disseminate and cross-reference material from a wide range of disparate sources, and learn how to spot what is the truth and what are lies. And don't forget qui bono?

Qui bono? Like a bloke selling a book you mean.

[Wales-Bales]

Qui bono? Like a bloke selling a book you mean.

At the expense of his career, what a smart fella

[Wales-Bales]

Every issue on there has Russian interest at heart.

Remember a few years ago when Gluey was jumping about wetting his nappy with excitement than Max Keiser was saying the LSE would collapse within a few months. That was clearly disinformation sent to hurt the UK economy but one of your "critical thinkers" was all over it. This isn't an isolated incident of where they have being critical of the UK and it's turned out to be nonsense.

Additionally a number of ex employees have come out and said about the whole thing being propaganda.

The LSE is being kept alive by funny money, the UK economy is a giant bubble. The only question is how long can they maintain the charade. Lagarde was talking last year about a financial reset, as everybody knows the western capital system is bust.

[Splott David]

That's why you also need the BBC, then you will find the truth out there somewhere It's only information boundaries, not rocket science. Finding out the truth happens every day in a court of law, but when it comes to the media people tend to swallow everything hook, line and sinker from their preferred news source. All media is propaganda and disinformation. You need to disseminate and cross-reference material from a wide range of disparate sources, and learn how to spot what is the truth and what are lies. And don't forget qui bono?

Couldn't agree more.

[Splott David]

The USA is not the world. And 60 newspapers doesn't represent every newspaper in the world.

One hand washes the other TBG.

https://twitter.com/RonMooreMoreRon/...31688937594880

[Taunton Blue Genie]

TBG, either you accept that corporate news agencies have their own agenda, their own preferences on how news is handled and disseminated or you don't. I've selected examples to show that this is the case and that it is common practice. You could try doing the research for yourself and I'm sure that you'l find many more examples. It's not just about commission but omission as well, both are useful tools that can be employed to persuade people to think of an issue in a certain way. Look at the propaganda that has been relentlessly pumped out by corporate media with smear campaigns about Jeremy Corbyn? Go and look at the research that the LSE have done on it. See what their conclusions are.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick, SD. I have never denied that such things happen at all. I have my own knowledge of such things in some countries and am interested in anyone else's knowledge in respect of countries other than the UK, the USA, Russia, China and the Middle East. Please don't confuse open questions with complete naivety.

[CardiffIrish2]

It must be a terrifying existence to know about all this biased media and behind the scenes conspiracies and not be able to do anything about it.
Except to post on a messageboard for a football club who once had someone called Tarki Micaleff play for them.
Tragic.

[Wales-Bales]

It must be a terrifying existence to know about all this biased media and behind the scenes conspiracies and not be able to do anything about it.
Except to post on a messageboard for a football club who once had someone called Tarki Micaleff play for them.
Tragic.

Imagine how they must have felt in Germany during the 1930's, they never even had football messageboards.

[Splott David]

It must be a terrifying existence to know about all this biased media and behind the scenes conspiracies and not be able to do anything about it.
Except to post on a messageboard for a football club who once had someone called Tarki Micaleff play for them.
Tragic.

I was sitting in his dad's restaurant in April 1971, on the very night that it first opened, in Clare Street, Grangetown listening to his father talk about the footballing abilities of the then ten year old Tarki Micallef. Little did I know that night that I would be watching him regularly some years later playing at Ninian Park.

[Organ Morgan.]

Rodrigo Duterte 'happy to slaughter' addicts as Hitler did Jews - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37515642

- Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has compared his anti-drug campaign to the Holocaust, saying he would kill as many addicts as Hitler did Jews.

"Hitler massacred three million Jews... there's three million drug addicts. I'd be happy to slaughter them," he said.

At least six million Jews as well as other minorities are known to have been killed by the Nazis. -

Maybe the President hasn't seen enough Hollywood films or sufficient corporate media. The Beeb busted a gut to get the magic figure out.

This Duterte bloke would have risked arrest in Germany and elsewhere for so-called Holocaust denial.