Reply With QuoteCouldn't you find anything on stormfront?
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Labour voters victimising themselves is one of the most tiring aspects of uk politics at the moment.
And stop quoting that freak smeggypants ffs
Originally Posted by LordKenwyne
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Labour voters victimising themselves is one of the most tiring aspects of uk politics at the moment.
And stop quoting that freak smeggypants ffs
"Why if jews died in six figures, why do they only have markings of up to 5 figures on their arms."
"Probably because that is by individual concentration camp".
Silence
On to find more anti jewish propaganda to fill the void left by is desolate life.
The anti-semitism ‘crisis’ in the Labour Party has been entirely manufactured. It has been used as a stick to bludgeon Corbyn with by the political right who are terrified of him and his profit-threatening, social justice policies; by the Israel lobby because Jezza is pro-Palestine; and by members of his own party for careerist reasons. It’s not a plot or a conspiracy, though – it’s just politics. People and groups fighting (quite dirtily, in this case) for their own interests. That said, I have been disturbed by the supposedly neutral BBC’s coverage of Corbyn which has been scandalously biased against him.
Last edited by Gabalphaville; 06-10-16 at 10:32.
"Terrified".
More like they lit the match and labour did the rest.
Labour are at fault for making far more of this than was needed. Ken Livingstone did a fabulous job of creating an issue out of nothing.
Labour are in the absolute gutter and it is worthy of mass coverage.
"Careerist reasons".
The population vote for MP's. They do not vote for a leader.
Corbyn thinks all MP's should follow his mantra, not the constiuents of the MP's.
If MP's want to enforce policies that were in their individual leaflets etc during the election then they need to be in power.
The UK is more right wing than it has ever been. They've got next to no chance. Which is a shame as I like corbyn and I voted labour in 2015.
Last edited by LordKenwyne; 06-10-16 at 10:36.
Oh the right are definitely terrified of Corbyn gaining power. Why else would they throw so much shit at him? If he was such a no-hoper they would sit back and let him get on with it. You're correct about Livingstone - he has done more harm than good by droning on about Hitler every five seconds. I don't believe for a second, though, that he is anti-semitic.
I don't see Labour as being "in the gutter". They've just had a massive upsurge in grass roots support. Or do you mean morally? I don't see them as being morally in the gutter either as Jezza is Mr Social Justice and about as painfully right-on as you could get.
"Careerist reasons" refers to the recent Labour leadership race. The biggest purveyor of the 'anti-Semitism in the Labour Party' myth was Owen Smith.
MPs, of course, have a duty to their constituents but first and foremost they are elected representatives of a particular Party. I think MPs like Jess Phillips, Stephen Kinnock etc should take note of the massive shift in the Labour Party since the last GE and act accordingly. I'd happily see them deselected if they don't. Obviously it's difficult for Jezza to demand loyalty as he's never been loyal in his career and that remains one of his biggest weaknesses as leader.
The UK is going to get more right-wing under May. I'm all for more State intervention given the market free for all we've endured over recent years but with May at the helm you just know it'll end up meaning more restrictions on civil liberties and that kind of stuff.
As usual Splott David you are ignoring the general problem. The question is whether your first loyalty is to your party or to your tribe - i.e. your extended family. In the case of the person in the second link it is clear that she has chosen the second option. Why is that wrong? In fiction a common way to depict a dystopian society is to have a child report a parent to the party for breaking a rule. Putting the party before the family is seen as a very bad thing by nearly everyone so what has this MP done that is wrong?
Don't forget that most people on your side of the argument are there for tribal reasons. They are there because members of their tribe or cult – a cult is like a family – are being oppressed by members of another tribe. If the roles were reversed would there be so much world wide support for the oppressed tribe?
Pro palestine/pro corbyn trolls on twitter regularly are anti Semitic. Dressed up as criticism of the israeli government. Any anti jewish comment is now defended.
Who is throwing shit at him?. The media? They are there to flog papers and gain subscriptions. People want to read about drama.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...mas-and-hezbo/
38% of voters voted for Smith. That is not an extreme minority.
Nothing May has said suggests she will be a right wing PM.
If she leans to the left Labour will be even more decimated. And that is what she is doing.
They have little chance without Scotland.
The Tories/UKIP are gaining in Wales.
They are rewriting the constituency boundaries, favouring the Tories as Labour has benefited from tiny boundaries in the past.
Since when did 300k votes in the leadership election mean you were a powerhouse candidate that the media is shitting themselves over.
Put him power. Then his Venezuelan like policies would soon destroy the county.
Put the matter to bed. Please do it.
Last edited by LordKenwyne; 06-10-16 at 11:46.
" no smoke without fire "
Not seen any right wing people criticising him. They are happy leaving labour voters throw shit at him. As you say they are sitting back and letting them get on with it.
OK I will.
Do you walk past your local newsagents with your eyes closed? http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7144381.html
We'll seeOK I will.
It'll be at the countries peril by the way. Not mine or the right wings.
As we are supposed to want what is best for the welfare of the country in its entirity.
Not the creation of a banana republic.
Very little in world affairs suggests corbyns politics would work.
Until someone explains how socialism would work in the modern UK then I am going to be sceptical.
Because all I can see is a smash and grab job, promising a load of goodies to the poorest. And no plan to sustain our place in the world.
Not more whataboutery? Try some focus instead.
You have two speeds, whataboutery and straw man.
Get back to me when you are serious about discussing issues on here.
Ah the old classic Splott Dai.
Don't like the argument so resort to accusations of being unable to debate properly.
The irony being that the worst form of being unable to debate properly is a complete lack of acceptance of a different viewpoint.
Now who does that remind me of.......
So are they manufactured or are there only a few Twitter trolls. Which is it. Can't be both.
It's either true or not. And gapalfa has co firmed it's true, whilst denying it's true. Jaded debate from some on here.
And how many people support him? If its 25% of the electorate then that is fair coverage isnt it? I doubt its that high.
How positive is media in general for politics? Lets get a full picture not a picture that suits an agenda. If its only 60% negative for politics in general, then is the 75% that far off the average.
CAnt accuse me of not seeing what is going on, and then not provide a full picture.
You'll be put on ignore for that. That's made you cry, hasn't it?
Doc, it's more a sign of early undiagnosed dementia than an argument. Arguments address the points that are presented or raised, not deflect from them and meander off on a tangent which has nothing to do with the subject in hand.
How do you know it is undiagnosed?
I think my question went directly to the question in hand. There is no doubt that the coup against Corbyn is being organised by the Israel first crowd. They have put the tribe before the party. The question I am asking you again is why is it wrong for someone to support their tribe rather than their party. Identity politics seems to be ignored when it comes to blacks, Muslims and other groups, but it is wrong for Jews. Are you against all identity politics or just against the pro Israel crowd?
Identity politics is all well and good where the identity is clear cut and unambiguous, for example, there's no such thing as a black religion in the same way there is no such thing as a Muslim political viewpoint. In a similar way there is no such thing as all football fans are hooligans, some are, some were, most were not. But that doesn't stop some fans from self-identifying and seeing themselves as part of a united group. The notion of a group is only a group when there's a football match to watch, outside of that they are all just a bunch of individuals. The notion of group or tribe is illusory, some might say transitory it doesn't actually exist accept on certain occasions when the individuals meet for a common cause or pastime.
You would no more think it right for someone to identify with group football violence as a way of giving some structure and meaning to their empty lives, than you would to a group of individuals who commit murder out of a warped sense of belonging to a self-declared elite group of thugs.
Muslims are bonded with other Muslims through religion not through politics. People who are black may be bonded with other black people through religion or even politics, but definitely through a shared culture and ethnicity which is visually obvious.
Now lets get to the meat, the Israeli first crowd self-identify on two counts, one of being Jewish, which in and of itself is just a way of self-identification as in reality anyone can become Jewish. The second count is that of being a Zionist. It's no different to those people who self-identified as being a Nazi or of belonging to a group of Nazis. (In reality the word Nazi is a pejorative term which was coined by a German journalist who was Jewish) Zionism is a secular political ideology which assumes exceptionalism as being entirely natural and that exceptionalism expresses itself in the notion that Jews are a race and the sanctity of their lives is more precious/special than all other human lives. In other words the bedrock in the belief of Zionism is that it is based on racial supremacy and apartheid. Like Nazism did in the 30's and 40's, Zionism co-opts mythical legends to flesh out a fabricated history and although completely secular, it borrows from religion as way of increasing its appeal to a wider section of Jews.
Without enemies Zionism would have no reason to exist, Zionism was founded on the notion that enemies were everywhere, they would never be a time when there weren't any enemies and those perceptions had to be maintained as if they were the very lifeblood which kept Zionism alive. Now we come on to anti-Semitism, is there any? It depends on what a person means by anti-Semitism. One definition for an "anti-Semite" is as follows: Someone who knows how powerful the Jews are, who objects to their having such power and objects to the ends that this power is being used. Another definition would be an "anti-Semite" is a person who certain Jews hate. In other words the term is practically meaningless in its original definition and has now become weaponised as a means of attacking anyone who the pro-Israeli pro-Zionist lobby perceives as any form of threat.
So in conclusion there is no such thing as a Jewish race, Jews self-identify as part of whichever grouping they wish to be associated with. But that doesn't stop certain sections of Jews as using race as a weapon, or a shield, depending on the prevailing circumstances that exist at the time.
The pro-Israeli crowd see any questioning of Israel as being anti-Semitic. If you support Palestinians you're questioning Israel's rights to exist, which of course in reality means that Palestinians don't have a right to exist. Being Palestinian means they have given up any consideration to have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are not Jews. So is it wrong for a British MP to be openly racist? To believe that other human beings are somehow lesser because they are not Jews, to support apartheid based on the perception that equality of human values does not exist, outside of being Jewish? I have no problem with Ruth Smeeth standing as a member of the Knesset in Tel Aviv and passionately supporting Israel's interests, I do however object to her doing so while masquerading as a British member of parliament, supposedly committed to British values and British interests.
Last edited by Splott David; 07-10-16 at 16:46.
Thank you for that long reply. As I have said before I like your posts and I usually agree with all the facts you have presented in your posts. I just disagree with your interpretation of the facts.
The above post contains so many contradictions that I can only assume that the two hemispheres of your brain no longer communicate with one another. Perhaps the link between them was severed by a pole or a brick in one of those 1970s terrace fights. You say that Zionism is "completely secular" but it borrows from religion. You say that Zionism is based on "racial superiority and apartheid" but you also say anyone can become a Jew. If anyone can become a Jew then Zionism is nothing like Nazism because the Nazis did not accept non-Aryans.
If Jews are not a race how do you explain how some diseases are much more common in Jews than in other groups? Why is there a Jewish look? Why are Jews so outstanding academically? Why do so many Jews think they are a race? Are they deluded?
You say identity politics are ok for blacks because they are bonded by ethnicity. Why isn't ok for Jews? They also regard themselves as bonded by ethnicity. If identity politics are ok what about all those people who just see themselves as individuals and not as a member of a group. Don't you think they will find themselves at a disadvantage when competing with members of groups who are using identity politics ?
Like most other ethnic and religious groups Zionists are using identity politics. The only difference is that Zionists are much better at it than any other group. They are loyal, clever and ruthless. I think you should be condemning identity politics in general rather than just one particular instance of it.
Last edited by David Vincent; 07-10-16 at 22:39.
You're going with fairy tales about race and linkage back to 3,000 year old desert tribes that wandered around herding sheep and goats?
How do you assert that such a race of ancient Israelites survived for 3,000 years against constant invasions, conquests, racial intermingling, marriages, rapes and a complete absence of any form of birth control?
I'll say it again, there is no such thing as "race," Jews are a self-identifying group. Anyone can become Jewish, e.g. Donald Trump's daughter, Sacha Baron Cohen's wife, Elizabeth Taylor, Sammy Davies Junior, etc, etc, etc.
No one can become an Aborigine, or Japanese. Why? Because these are examples of race. In the same way no one can become a Caucasian.
Perhaps you'll be able to explain why so many people claim that they are no longer Jewish and then maybe you'll provide examples of people who also claim that they are no longer Aborigines/Japanese/Black?
By way of assisting you in your confused state (I don't criticise your confusion, it has been culturally enforced on you) I have provided a link for you to peruse and better acquaint yourself with the nuances associated with the claims of anti-Semitism, from one of my followers on Twitter, the Jazz musician and author, Gilad Atzmon. Gilad is an Israeli Jew who is a semite, in the same way that Palestinians are.
"In fact, by sleight of hand, the Zionists have expanded the definition of ‘anti-semitism’ so that you do not have to hate people of Jewish origin in general to be so accused. It’s enough to express disgust at Zionist crimes, or attempt to analyse the way Zionists organise politically to stamp on opposition to those crimes, to be accused of ‘anti-semitism’ today. This does have the effect of devaluing the meaning of the term."
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2016...-and-confusion
You'll understand after admitting the other week that you had never heard of Jabotinsky in connection with Zionism, I'll have to pass up on any comments that you have made on that particular form of fascism, until you feel a little more confident to be able to have a discussion on the subject.
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