Slowed down or speeded up, the Welsh national anthem should be scrapped altogether.

[Splott David]

The vast majority who try to sing it, at any speed, haven't got a clue what it means.

The debate is worthwhile on here, as it directly affects thousands and thousands of people from a generation who have been sold the notion that simply by learning the language in school, it will assist, or somehow help them when they are seeking employment in the country.

That is a fallacy, pure and simple, because the vast majority of those will not have come from a traditional Welsh speaking part of the country, will not have a family background associated with an entirely Welsh speaking culture, and will not share a tribal, nationalist background, or hold an empathy with such a background.

If the issue was just as simple as allowing those who wanted to learn Welsh in the same way as some who may wish to learn, French, German, Italian, Russian, or Arabic, then there would be no problem.
But the language became a vehicle for the promotion of nationalistic values and objectives which previously had been as vigorously pursued as those pursued by nationalists in the IRA in Northern Ireland.

The evidence that there simply isn’t that much of a demand for people to use it in daily life can be seen from the extremely poor lack of usage of The Welsh Message Board on CCMB, and the complete lack of the same facility over on ****.

Between the two boards there have been tens of thousands of threads on all sorts of subjects, where does the demand exist for a separate Welsh Forum, certainly not on ****, and hardly on CCMB at all?

I am old enough to remember that we had terrorism in West Wales, Mid-Wales, and North Wales for large parts of the 60’s and 70’s. There were terrorist training exercises in Mid-Wales, people went to prison for terrorist offences, hundreds of holiday homes were burnt down or attacked by Welsh Nationalists, and at one point the Queen’s own yacht was targeted for an attack while visiting North Wales.

The training that went on in Mid-Wales with Welsh Nationalists was no different from that carried out by extreme Islamic fundamentalists in England. They (like the Islamic fundamentalists) posed a direct threat to the security and safety of people in this country, and like them were caught and imprisoned as a result.

When it was realised that direct extreme action would only alienate the majority population, the strategy was changed (in the same way that the IRA changed) to that of bringing about strategic aims and objectives through the political route.

Now, as they say, we are where we are. What we are seeing are former nationalists who are attempting to mould and shape the future direction of Wales, to fit in with a particular minority culture, one whose shared values exist with only a very small minority of the population within Wales.

Thousands have been fooled with the notion that their education and job prospects would be seriously disadvantaged, if it wasn’t for the strong emphasis that has been laid on embracing the language. This is a political objective, a nationalist objective, one that seeks to promote a strategy for nationalism through the artificial creation of a ‘need’ for people to learn the language.

We are years into this now, do we see any benefits from it?

The vast majority who have been misled with this nationalist agenda will never be able to use the language in order to pursue a career of their choice. For example look at BBC Wales. How many Welsh speaking Cardiffians are employed there?

You will not only find a massive disproportionate amount of Welsh speakers to non-Welsh speakers employed there, but they will tend to come from family backgrounds where Welsh as a language was prominently used on a daily basis.

What you won’t find is too many people born and bred from Splott, Ely, Roath, Canton, Penylan etc, etc, working there.

From my discussions with staff from the BBC apparently you won’t find one. It matters not a jot how many of them learn to speak Welsh, they don’t have a shared cultural background, they never have and they never will.
I used the BBC as an example, the same applies to the Welsh National Museum, St Fagan’s Museum, The Millenium Centre (which is dominated by interference and meddling from the WAG) where staff are ‘encouraged’ to give a warm Welsh greeting (in Welsh) to people from Bristol or Gloucester who have come to Cardiff to see a London West End production!

The Centre is targeted by Welsh Nationalists who constantly write (in English of course) to complain that they couldn’t find enough members of staff to converse in Welsh with, when they visited it.

My view is that more and more of this kind of absurdity will continue to creep into our institutions slowly but relentlessly, until we end up with a fractured, divided society. On a macro level, it will affect businesses in Wales in the same way as it has affected any form of official letter that you may receive in the post.

It will destroy competitiveness, blight our economy as well as ruin our chances of attracting outside companies to relocate here, leaving thousands of young job seekers feeling completely cheated and disillusioned for years and years to come.

They will end up victims of a long term political aim to promote nationalism, imposed on the majority in the country, for the sole benefit of a culturally small minority.

On a micro level it will be socially divisive. Only the other day I witnessed a young couple with a North Wales accent board a bus in Albany Road and insist to the driver that they will ask for fares and directions in Welsh. He was understandably confused and we all watched as he was delayed explaining to both of them that he didn’t understand a word that they had asked him, when they had reverted to using Welsh. Both got frustrated with him, finally speaking only in English, and then proceeding to complain loudly to each other in Welsh when seated.
Something which we never have expected to see on the streets of Cardiff could well become commonplace in the next few years. That will lead to more and more cases of social friction on a local level, between those who believe that their right to use a minority language far outweighs their consideration towards those who don’t understand it.

That’s the way nationalism works the world over.

All views are welcome, but remember some are more welcome than others...

[LordKenwyne]

nah

[TruBlue]

The vast majority who try to sing it, at any speed, haven't got a clue what it means.

The debate is worthwhile on here, as it directly affects thousands and thousands of people from a generation who have been sold the notion that simply by learning the language in school, it will assist, or somehow help them when they are seeking employment in the country.

That is a fallacy, pure and simple, because the vast majority of those will not have come from a traditional Welsh speaking part of the country, will not have a family background associated with an entirely Welsh speaking culture, and will not share a tribal, nationalist background, or hold an empathy with such a background.

If the issue was just as simple as allowing those who wanted to learn Welsh in the same way as some who may wish to learn, French, German, Italian, Russian, or Arabic, then there would be no problem.
But the language became a vehicle for the promotion of nationalistic values and objectives which previously had been as vigorously pursued as those pursued by nationalists in the IRA in Northern Ireland.

The evidence that there simply isn’t that much of a demand for people to use it in daily life can be seen from the extremely poor lack of usage of The Welsh Message Board on CCMB, and the complete lack of the same facility over on ****.

Between the two boards there have been tens of thousands of threads on all sorts of subjects, where does the demand exist for a separate Welsh Forum, certainly not on ****, and hardly on CCMB at all?

I am old enough to remember that we had terrorism in West Wales, Mid-Wales, and North Wales for large parts of the 60’s and 70’s. There were terrorist training exercises in Mid-Wales, people went to prison for terrorist offences, hundreds of holiday homes were burnt down or attacked by Welsh Nationalists, and at one point the Queen’s own yacht was targeted for an attack while visiting North Wales.

The training that went on in Mid-Wales with Welsh Nationalists was no different from that carried out by extreme Islamic fundamentalists in England. They (like the Islamic fundamentalists) posed a direct threat to the security and safety of people in this country, and like them were caught and imprisoned as a result.

When it was realised that direct extreme action would only alienate the majority population, the strategy was changed (in the same way that the IRA changed) to that of bringing about strategic aims and objectives through the political route.

Now, as they say, we are where we are. What we are seeing are former nationalists who are attempting to mould and shape the future direction of Wales, to fit in with a particular minority culture, one whose shared values exist with only a very small minority of the population within Wales.

Thousands have been fooled with the notion that their education and job prospects would be seriously disadvantaged, if it wasn’t for the strong emphasis that has been laid on embracing the language. This is a political objective, a nationalist objective, one that seeks to promote a strategy for nationalism through the artificial creation of a ‘need’ for people to learn the language.

We are years into this now, do we see any benefits from it?

The vast majority who have been misled with this nationalist agenda will never be able to use the language in order to pursue a career of their choice. For example look at BBC Wales. How many Welsh speaking Cardiffians are employed there?

You will not only find a massive disproportionate amount of Welsh speakers to non-Welsh speakers employed there, but they will tend to come from family backgrounds where Welsh as a language was prominently used on a daily basis.

What you won’t find is too many people born and bred from Splott, Ely, Roath, Canton, Penylan etc, etc, working there.

From my discussions with staff from the BBC apparently you won’t find one. It matters not a jot how many of them learn to speak Welsh, they don’t have a shared cultural background, they never have and they never will.
I used the BBC as an example, the same applies to the Welsh National Museum, St Fagan’s Museum, The Millenium Centre (which is dominated by interference and meddling from the WAG) where staff are ‘encouraged’ to give a warm Welsh greeting (in Welsh) to people from Bristol or Gloucester who have come to Cardiff to see a London West End production!

The Centre is targeted by Welsh Nationalists who constantly write (in English of course) to complain that they couldn’t find enough members of staff to converse in Welsh with, when they visited it.

My view is that more and more of this kind of absurdity will continue to creep into our institutions slowly but relentlessly, until we end up with a fractured, divided society. On a macro level, it will affect businesses in Wales in the same way as it has affected any form of official letter that you may receive in the post.

It will destroy competitiveness, blight our economy as well as ruin our chances of attracting outside companies to relocate here, leaving thousands of young job seekers feeling completely cheated and disillusioned for years and years to come.

They will end up victims of a long term political aim to promote nationalism, imposed on the majority in the country, for the sole benefit of a culturally small minority.

On a micro level it will be socially divisive. Only the other day I witnessed a young couple with a North Wales accent board a bus in Albany Road and insist to the driver that they will ask for fares and directions in Welsh. He was understandably confused and we all watched as he was delayed explaining to both of them that he didn’t understand a word that they had asked him, when they had reverted to using Welsh. Both got frustrated with him, finally speaking only in English, and then proceeding to complain loudly to each other in Welsh when seated.
Something which we never have expected to see on the streets of Cardiff could well become commonplace in the next few years. That will lead to more and more cases of social friction on a local level, between those who believe that their right to use a minority language far outweighs their consideration towards those who don’t understand it.

That’s the way nationalism works the world over.

All views are welcome, but remember some are more welcome than others...

Maybe because of your history of lying, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a lie as well.

[TH63]

Maybe because of your history of lying, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a lie as well.

Did they insist in English or Welsh?

For what it's worth, I have some sympathy for splotty's views on this one. People should be encouraged, rather than forced, to speak Welsh.

That said, although not a natural Welsh speaker, I take enough pride in Wales to have tried to learn the language, and certainly know, and understand, the National Anthem.

I've never really understood the need for a Welsh section on this board, but I'm glad it's there for those that want it, in a similar way I'm glad Radio Three exists for those that enjoy the more cultural things in life.

The language should be protected, and promoted in my view. I'm not convinced that we're going the right way about doing that to be honest, but there it is.

Incidentally, the head of BBC Wales - Rhodri Talfan Davies was born in Cardiff although it's not immediately clear if he is from "proper Cardiff" as defined by splotty = Splott, Ely, Roath, Canton, Penylan,

[Dr Lecter]

Maybe because of your history of lying, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a lie as well.

Splotty telling porkies?

Surely not.

I also liked his evidence backing up his opinion being that not many people on a football message board use the Welsh bit.

That's like saying in a world of billions, only a small number of people on twitter give a shit about Palestine. Therefore this is proof that it doesn't matter and we should let the Jews carry on killing them.

[Mrs Steve R]

On a micro level it will be socially divisive. Only the other day I witnessed a young couple with a North Wales accent board a bus in Albany Road and insist to the driver that they will ask for fares and directions in Welsh. He was understandably confused and we all watched as he was delayed explaining to both of them that he didn’t understand a word that they had asked him, when they had reverted to using Welsh. Both got frustrated with him, finally speaking only in English, and then proceeding to complain loudly to each other in Welsh when seated. Something which we never have expected to see on the streets of Cardiff could well become commonplace in the next few years. That will lead to more and more cases of social friction on a local level, between those who believe that their right to use a minority language far outweighs their consideration towards those who don’t understand it.That’s the way nationalism works the world over.All views are welcome, but remember some are more welcome than others...

Socially divisive? A Welsh couple in Wales speaking Welsh, on that basis I'm guessing that you think we should close our borders to any minorities coming to the UK that don't speak English? if not, why not and how is it different?

[Gabalphaville]

The vast majority who try to sing it, at any speed, haven't got a clue what it means.

The debate is worthwhile on here, as it directly affects thousands and thousands of people from a generation who have been sold the notion that simply by learning the language in school, it will assist, or somehow help them when they are seeking employment in the country.

That is a fallacy, pure and simple, because the vast majority of those will not have come from a traditional Welsh speaking part of the country, will not have a family background associated with an entirely Welsh speaking culture, and will not share a tribal, nationalist background, or hold an empathy with such a background.

If the issue was just as simple as allowing those who wanted to learn Welsh in the same way as some who may wish to learn, French, German, Italian, Russian, or Arabic, then there would be no problem.
But the language became a vehicle for the promotion of nationalistic values and objectives which previously had been as vigorously pursued as those pursued by nationalists in the IRA in Northern Ireland.

The evidence that there simply isn’t that much of a demand for people to use it in daily life can be seen from the extremely poor lack of usage of The Welsh Message Board on CCMB, and the complete lack of the same facility over on ****.

Between the two boards there have been tens of thousands of threads on all sorts of subjects, where does the demand exist for a separate Welsh Forum, certainly not on ****, and hardly on CCMB at all?

I am old enough to remember that we had terrorism in West Wales, Mid-Wales, and North Wales for large parts of the 60’s and 70’s. There were terrorist training exercises in Mid-Wales, people went to prison for terrorist offences, hundreds of holiday homes were burnt down or attacked by Welsh Nationalists, and at one point the Queen’s own yacht was targeted for an attack while visiting North Wales.

The training that went on in Mid-Wales with Welsh Nationalists was no different from that carried out by extreme Islamic fundamentalists in England. They (like the Islamic fundamentalists) posed a direct threat to the security and safety of people in this country, and like them were caught and imprisoned as a result.

When it was realised that direct extreme action would only alienate the majority population, the strategy was changed (in the same way that the IRA changed) to that of bringing about strategic aims and objectives through the political route.

Now, as they say, we are where we are. What we are seeing are former nationalists who are attempting to mould and shape the future direction of Wales, to fit in with a particular minority culture, one whose shared values exist with only a very small minority of the population within Wales.

Thousands have been fooled with the notion that their education and job prospects would be seriously disadvantaged, if it wasn’t for the strong emphasis that has been laid on embracing the language. This is a political objective, a nationalist objective, one that seeks to promote a strategy for nationalism through the artificial creation of a ‘need’ for people to learn the language.

We are years into this now, do we see any benefits from it?

The vast majority who have been misled with this nationalist agenda will never be able to use the language in order to pursue a career of their choice. For example look at BBC Wales. How many Welsh speaking Cardiffians are employed there?

You will not only find a massive disproportionate amount of Welsh speakers to non-Welsh speakers employed there, but they will tend to come from family backgrounds where Welsh as a language was prominently used on a daily basis.

What you won’t find is too many people born and bred from Splott, Ely, Roath, Canton, Penylan etc, etc, working there.

From my discussions with staff from the BBC apparently you won’t find one. It matters not a jot how many of them learn to speak Welsh, they don’t have a shared cultural background, they never have and they never will.
I used the BBC as an example, the same applies to the Welsh National Museum, St Fagan’s Museum, The Millenium Centre (which is dominated by interference and meddling from the WAG) where staff are ‘encouraged’ to give a warm Welsh greeting (in Welsh) to people from Bristol or Gloucester who have come to Cardiff to see a London West End production!

The Centre is targeted by Welsh Nationalists who constantly write (in English of course) to complain that they couldn’t find enough members of staff to converse in Welsh with, when they visited it.

My view is that more and more of this kind of absurdity will continue to creep into our institutions slowly but relentlessly, until we end up with a fractured, divided society. On a macro level, it will affect businesses in Wales in the same way as it has affected any form of official letter that you may receive in the post.

It will destroy competitiveness, blight our economy as well as ruin our chances of attracting outside companies to relocate here, leaving thousands of young job seekers feeling completely cheated and disillusioned for years and years to come.

They will end up victims of a long term political aim to promote nationalism, imposed on the majority in the country, for the sole benefit of a culturally small minority.

On a micro level it will be socially divisive. Only the other day I witnessed a young couple with a North Wales accent board a bus in Albany Road and insist to the driver that they will ask for fares and directions in Welsh. He was understandably confused and we all watched as he was delayed explaining to both of them that he didn’t understand a word that they had asked him, when they had reverted to using Welsh. Both got frustrated with him, finally speaking only in English, and then proceeding to complain loudly to each other in Welsh when seated.
Something which we never have expected to see on the streets of Cardiff could well become commonplace in the next few years. That will lead to more and more cases of social friction on a local level, between those who believe that their right to use a minority language far outweighs their consideration towards those who don’t understand it.

That’s the way nationalism works the world over.

All views are welcome, but remember some are more welcome than others...

I think Plaid have evolved slowly from being, essentially, a language pressure group to a proper political party. I voted for them at the last election and may do again next time if St Jezza doesn’t boot out the right-wing element in Labour. I don’t speak Welsh which is something I have in common with Leanne Wood. I think her political outlook is more about fighting our corner after decades of seeing us at the bottom of the economic shit-heap whether it’s Labour or the Tories in power.

It’s odd that you align yourself with the colonised (Palestinians) against the colonisers (Israelis) but then switch over and identify with the coloniser (Anglos) over the colonised (Welsh). It’s almost as if you are cherry picking your causes rather than acting on a universal principle. When you do this people will ask the inevitable question: why is one group’s historical subjugation OK and another’s not? They may then come to the conclusion that your views are based upon prejudice rather than ethics.

[goslow]

The vast majority who try to sing it, at any speed, haven't got a clue what it means.

The debate is worthwhile on here, as it directly affects thousands and thousands of people from a generation who have been sold the notion that simply by learning the language in school, it will assist, or somehow help them when they are seeking employment in the country.

That is a fallacy, pure and simple, because the vast majority of those will not have come from a traditional Welsh speaking part of the country, will not have a family background associated with an entirely Welsh speaking culture, and will not share a tribal, nationalist background, or hold an empathy with such a background.

If the issue was just as simple as allowing those who wanted to learn Welsh in the same way as some who may wish to learn, French, German, Italian, Russian, or Arabic, then there would be no problem.
But the language became a vehicle for the promotion of nationalistic values and objectives which previously had been as vigorously pursued as those pursued by nationalists in the IRA in Northern Ireland.

The evidence that there simply isn’t that much of a demand for people to use it in daily life can be seen from the extremely poor lack of usage of The Welsh Message Board on CCMB, and the complete lack of the same facility over on ****.

Between the two boards there have been tens of thousands of threads on all sorts of subjects, where does the demand exist for a separate Welsh Forum, certainly not on ****, and hardly on CCMB at all?

I am old enough to remember that we had terrorism in West Wales, Mid-Wales, and North Wales for large parts of the 60’s and 70’s. There were terrorist training exercises in Mid-Wales, people went to prison for terrorist offences, hundreds of holiday homes were burnt down or attacked by Welsh Nationalists, and at one point the Queen’s own yacht was targeted for an attack while visiting North Wales.

The training that went on in Mid-Wales with Welsh Nationalists was no different from that carried out by extreme Islamic fundamentalists in England. They (like the Islamic fundamentalists) posed a direct threat to the security and safety of people in this country, and like them were caught and imprisoned as a result.

When it was realised that direct extreme action would only alienate the majority population, the strategy was changed (in the same way that the IRA changed) to that of bringing about strategic aims and objectives through the political route.

Now, as they say, we are where we are. What we are seeing are former nationalists who are attempting to mould and shape the future direction of Wales, to fit in with a particular minority culture, one whose shared values exist with only a very small minority of the population within Wales.

Thousands have been fooled with the notion that their education and job prospects would be seriously disadvantaged, if it wasn’t for the strong emphasis that has been laid on embracing the language. This is a political objective, a nationalist objective, one that seeks to promote a strategy for nationalism through the artificial creation of a ‘need’ for people to learn the language.

We are years into this now, do we see any benefits from it?

The vast majority who have been misled with this nationalist agenda will never be able to use the language in order to pursue a career of their choice. For example look at BBC Wales. How many Welsh speaking Cardiffians are employed there?

You will not only find a massive disproportionate amount of Welsh speakers to non-Welsh speakers employed there, but they will tend to come from family backgrounds where Welsh as a language was prominently used on a daily basis.

What you won’t find is too many people born and bred from Splott, Ely, Roath, Canton, Penylan etc, etc, working there.

From my discussions with staff from the BBC apparently you won’t find one. It matters not a jot how many of them learn to speak Welsh, they don’t have a shared cultural background, they never have and they never will.
I used the BBC as an example, the same applies to the Welsh National Museum, St Fagan’s Museum, The Millenium Centre (which is dominated by interference and meddling from the WAG) where staff are ‘encouraged’ to give a warm Welsh greeting (in Welsh) to people from Bristol or Gloucester who have come to Cardiff to see a London West End production!

The Centre is targeted by Welsh Nationalists who constantly write (in English of course) to complain that they couldn’t find enough members of staff to converse in Welsh with, when they visited it.

My view is that more and more of this kind of absurdity will continue to creep into our institutions slowly but relentlessly, until we end up with a fractured, divided society. On a macro level, it will affect businesses in Wales in the same way as it has affected any form of official letter that you may receive in the post.

It will destroy competitiveness, blight our economy as well as ruin our chances of attracting outside companies to relocate here, leaving thousands of young job seekers feeling completely cheated and disillusioned for years and years to come.

They will end up victims of a long term political aim to promote nationalism, imposed on the majority in the country, for the sole benefit of a culturally small minority.

On a micro level it will be socially divisive. Only the other day I witnessed a young couple with a North Wales accent board a bus in Albany Road and insist to the driver that they will ask for fares and directions in Welsh. He was understandably confused and we all watched as he was delayed explaining to both of them that he didn’t understand a word that they had asked him, when they had reverted to using Welsh. Both got frustrated with him, finally speaking only in English, and then proceeding to complain loudly to each other in Welsh when seated.
Something which we never have expected to see on the streets of Cardiff could well become commonplace in the next few years. That will lead to more and more cases of social friction on a local level, between those who believe that their right to use a minority language far outweighs their consideration towards those who don’t understand it.

That’s the way nationalism works the world over.

All views are welcome, but remember some are more welcome than others...

Well said David,apart from the bit you made up.

[Splott David]

Socially divisive? A Welsh couple in Wales speaking Welsh, on that basis I'm guessing that you think we should close our borders to any minorities coming to the UK that don't speak English? if not, why not and how is it different?

It's completely different Mrs R. Read that section of my post again please. It clearly states the couple insisted on speaking in Welsh to the bus driver. You can insist on speaking in Welsh to a stray dog that you have just met but you wouldn't expect the dog to understand you or reply back in Welsh. How can anyone insist on inflicting a minority language onto a bus driver in Cardiff, who didn't understand one word of what they were saying? That's just gross stupidity and completely ignorant as both were not monoglot Welsh speakers. There isn't one in the whole of Wales.

[LordKenwyne]

You can't really talk of sustaining our language as being nationalist, when its demise is partly because of english nationalism.

You can talk about the usefulness of welsh in the modern world, but nationalism I don't see it.

This was a topic on 5 live not long ago.

An english guy rang in saying it was nationalism to expect people to want to sustain a language, that our neighbours tried to kill off. He was english. I mean, what sort of complex do you have, that signage etc grinds that much.

The cost of signage in welsh is also absolutely nothing. All the money wasted in the UK, I don't think paint on signs comes close to be totally honest.

https://whywelsh.wordpress.com/2013/...osts-too-much/

[Splott David]

I think Plaid have evolved slowly from being, essentially, a language pressure group to a proper political party. I voted for them at the last election and may do again next time if St Jezza doesn’t boot out the right-wing element in Labour. I don’t speak Welsh which is something I have in common with Leanne Wood. I think her political outlook is more about fighting our corner after decades of seeing us at the bottom of the economic shit-heap whether it’s Labour or the Tories in power.

It’s odd that you align yourself with the colonised (Palestinians) against the colonisers (Israelis) but then switch over and identify with the coloniser (Anglos) over the colonised (Welsh). It’s almost as if you are cherry picking your causes rather than acting on a universal principle. When you do this people will ask the inevitable question: why is one group’s historical subjugation OK and another’s not? They may then come to the conclusion that your views are based upon prejudice rather than ethics.

I'll acknowledge that if you can point me to which town in Wales was bombed over a 51 day period losing 2,500 people, including over 500 children, by the English.

[Gabalphaville]

I'll acknowledge that if you can point me to which town in Wales was bombed over a 51 day period losing 2,500 people, including over 500 children, by the English.

Do you the think the Welsh invited the English to rule over them? And do you think the English built a bunch of castles because they thought they'd look aesthetically pleasing in the future?

[TruBlue]

Do you the think the Welsh invited the English to rule over them? And do you think the English built a bunch of castles because they thought they'd look aesthetically pleasing in the future?

[Packerman]

Do you the think the Welsh invited the English to rule over them? And do you think the English built a bunch of castles because they thought they'd look aesthetically pleasing in the future?

careful, he'll put you on pretend ignore

[Splott David]

Do you the think the Welsh invited the English to rule over them? And do you think the English built a bunch of castles because they thought they'd look aesthetically pleasing in the future?

Henry VII was Welsh.

[Packerman]

Henry VII was Welsh.

and? longshanks ordered the building of the castles to subjugate the welsh, long time before henry the 7th

[TH63]

Henry VII was Welsh.

He was born around 200 years after the English conquered Wales and made it a principality.

[kingbillyboy]

I'll acknowledge that if you can point me to which town in Wales was bombed over a 51 day period losing 2,500 people, including over 500 children, by the English.

cwmbran, 1981

[Splott David]

and? longshanks ordered the building of the castles to subjugate the welsh, long time before henry the 7th

Do you feel subjugated? How?

[Splott David]

He was born around 200 years after the English conquered Wales and made it a principality.

Do you think we're an occupied people?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

It's completely different Mrs R. Read that section of my post again please. It clearly states the couple insisted on speaking in Welsh to the bus driver. You can insist on speaking in Welsh to a stray dog that you have just met but you wouldn't expect the dog to understand you or reply back in Welsh. How can anyone insist on inflicting a minority language onto a bus driver in Cardiff, who didn't understand one word of what they were saying? That's just gross stupidity and completely ignorant as both were not monoglot Welsh speakers. There isn't one in the whole of Wales.

It is completely and morally wrong to suggest that people in Wales shouldn't be able to speak in Welsh. Whether or not the person listening can understand is a different matter.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

You can't really talk of sustaining our language as being nationalist, when its demise is partly because of english nationalism.

Welsh hasn't been spoken by half of the population for at least 150 years. Blaming its demise partially on the English doesn't perhaps tell the full story.

Much of the problem stems from the population growth of the late 1800s, early 1900s, where people from around Europe, though mainly England and Ireland flooded into the valleys to work in the coal industry, or get jobs that were needed in the newly formed villages and towns that were now booming. In the same way that Welsh immigrants took over a part of Patagonia, resulting in Welsh being the main language in that region, so it stands to reason that the huge influx of English speaking people into areas of Wales with scant population was always going to have an effect on the locals that spoke Welsh. By way of an example, between 1851 and 1911 the population of the Rhondda grew from 951 to 152,781, the vast majority moving in from outside of Wales. Many of the other South Wales valleys saw population explosions, though not as extraordinary as the Rhondda. Such an influx of immigrants was always going to have an effect on the language.

[TH63]

Do you think we're an occupied people?

What a bizarre, non-sequitur question.

For reasons best known to yourself you brought up Henry VII in response to someone mentioning castles. I merely pointed out that he was born some 200 years after those castles were built. I.e your response to that poster was illogical.

In turn you respond with a different, and totally random question.

It really is pointless trying to debate with someone who, when losing an argument, simply moves the goalposts. Or in your case, turns them into a basketball hoop.

[Croesy Blue]

Ah that's why I don't read the politics forum

[Splott David]

What a bizarre, non-sequitur question.

For reasons best known to yourself you brought up Henry VII in response to someone mentioning castles. I merely pointed out that he was born some 200 years after those castles were built. I.e your response to that poster was illogical.

In turn you respond with a different, and totally random question.

It really is pointless trying to debate with someone who, when losing an argument, simply moves the goalposts. Or in your case, turns them into a basketball hoop.

My argument was made in the original post. Read the chronology of the thread correctly please. The comment about castles came after my response not before it.