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Thread: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

  1. #776

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    The Development team are at home to Millwall today kick off at 1 o clock according to the club website - the game is at Leckwith.
    2-2 draw, Kadeem Harris with both the goals. Him & Damour played the ninety minutes. Looking forward to TOBW's write-up, we'll have to make do with this for now.

    https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...-2-2-millwall/

  2. #777

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    2-2 draw, Kadeem Harris with both the goals. Him & Damour played the ninety minutes. Looking forward to TOBW's write-up, we'll have to make do with this for now.

    https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...-2-2-millwall/
    Not sure you could call Harris a former Brentford man because he was on loan there!

  3. #778

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    Not sure you could call Harris a former Brentford man because he was on loan there!
    Yes, that's a bit random. I'll be interested to hear how he did today, it's seemed a bit daft having him in the 25 if he can't even make the bench when we're short in his position. Same goes for Damour. Do we really need three defenders on the bench?

  4. #779

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    My take on the latest giveaway from 2-0 up by the Development team.

    http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/

  5. #780

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    My take on the latest giveaway from 2-0 up by the Development team.

    http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/
    Thanks for that. I'm not quite sure why but the expression 'a camel is a horse designed by a committee' comes to mind looking at the DVP team. We've now got a squad of contracted players and the continuity that should come from that will hopefully enable the better players to kick on, stand out at that level and push for a first team place. That's surely the aim more than just results. Certain things don't quite make sense though and it feels like the whole thing is a compromise to try and keep everyone happy.

    We've got a first team manager who likes wide players but there don't seem to be any at under-23 level, apart from the permanently injured Jack McKay, yet there's a plethora of centre halves and central midfielders to the point where Paul McKay, a centre-back who we recently gave a long contract to, has to play at right back, even though we released a right back who now starts regularly in the Championship, signed another one and still have Cameron Coxe here. I saw someone mention on here that Coxe was lined up to go to Yeovil and maybe that was the plan until the Tom James (another right back we released) transfer fell through but it's still a bit confusing.

    The Academy played a very smooth, well organised 3-5-2 on Saturday and seem to be developing well. Should the under-23s be used as a continuation of the good work being done at that level or solely as preparation for an old school first team manager who, despite all his success, suddenly seems a bit confused about systems and formations and will be 70 in a couple of months? It's a big question and such a difficult one to answer that it's hardly surprising the under 23 set-up looks more like a camel than a horse at present.

  6. #781

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    Thanks for that. I'm not quite sure why but the expression 'a camel is a horse designed by a committee' comes to mind looking at the DVP team. We've now got a squad of contracted players and the continuity that should come from that will hopefully enable the better players to kick on, stand out at that level and push for a first team place. That's surely the aim more than just results. Certain things don't quite make sense though and it feels like the whole thing is a compromise to try and keep everyone happy.

    We've got a first team manager who likes wide players but there don't seem to be any at under-23 level, apart from the permanently injured Jack McKay, yet there's a plethora of centre halves and central midfielders to the point where Paul McKay, a centre-back who we recently gave a long contract to, has to play at right back, even though we released a right back who now starts regularly in the Championship, signed another one and still have Cameron Coxe here. I saw someone mention on here that Coxe was lined up to go to Yeovil and maybe that was the plan until the Tom James (another right back we released) transfer fell through but it's still a bit confusing.

    The Academy played a very smooth, well organised 3-5-2 on Saturday and seem to be developing well. Should the under-23s be used as a continuation of the good work being done at that level or solely as preparation for an old school first team manager who, despite all his success, suddenly seems a bit confused about systems and formations and will be 70 in a couple of months? It's a big question and such a difficult one to answer that it's hardly surprising the under 23 set-up looks more like a camel than a horse at present.
    Based on yesterday, you would say that Kadeem Harris might, only might, be able to do a job for the first team, but there was no one else on show who looked worthy of consideration. With all of the defensive problems we have been having lately, you would have thought Matt Connolly would have been a possibility, but he wasn't very good yesterday and I wouldn't be surprised if he was having, understandable, problems in motivating himself to play on Monday afternoons in front about 50 people. Loic Damour did some good things, but I would say he did his first team chances a lot of harm against Norwich and I can't see matches against Millwall reserves overcoming the damage he did to his cause that night.

    Although they've lost their last two games, the contrast between the Academy team and the Under 23s is a stark one this season and it's a concern that what looks to be a good crop of 16 to 18 year olds we have coming through will have nowhere to go to continue their development in a couple of years time unless there is a radical change in thinking at the club when it comes to considering young players as possible first teamers.

  7. #782

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Based on yesterday, you would say that Kadeem Harris might, only might, be able to do a job for the first team, but there was no one else on show who looked worthy of consideration. With all of the defensive problems we have been having lately, you would have thought Matt Connolly would have been a possibility, but he wasn't very good yesterday and I wouldn't be surprised if he was having, understandable, problems in motivating himself to play on Monday afternoons in front about 50 people. Loic Damour did some good things, but I would say he did his first team chances a lot of harm against Norwich and I can't see matches against Millwall reserves overcoming the damage he did to his cause that night.

    Although they've lost their last two games, the contrast between the Academy team and the Under 23s is a stark one this season and it's a concern that what looks to be a good crop of 16 to 18 year olds we have coming through will have nowhere to go to continue their development in a couple of years time unless there is a radical change in thinking at the club when it comes to considering young players as possible first teamers.
    Which, I'm sure, is exactly the point that Bellamy has been making to the club over and over again. To be fair, I think (hope?) the under-23 set-up is starting to move in the right direction now. There seems to be a settled squad of around 16 contracted players at last and the more they train and play together the more things should improve.

    As I said, the balance of that squad isn't great but at least we seem to be moving away from the endless changes & trials that have dogged that age group this year. Most of the lads are only on short term contracts, I think, so there's every incentive for them to impress quickly. Those that don't will presumably make way for the Academy lads coming up next year. Now we've just got to hope they won't be expected to play the kind of parks football that they were moving towards last season. How's the style of play been this season so far?

  8. #783

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    Which, I'm sure, is exactly the point that Bellamy has been making to the club over and over again. To be fair, I think (hope?) the under-23 set-up is starting to move in the right direction now. There seems to be a settled squad of around 16 contracted players at last and the more they train and play together the more things should improve.

    As I said, the balance of that squad isn't great but at least we seem to be moving away from the endless changes & trials that have dogged that age group this year. Most of the lads are only on short term contracts, I think, so there's every incentive for them to impress quickly. Those that don't will presumably make way for the Academy lads coming up next year. Now we've just got to hope they won't be expected to play the kind of parks football that they were moving towards last season. How's the style of play been this season so far?
    I've not seen any improvements in style of play from last season yet and I've also not seen anything to indicate that the team has improved from what we had when we were picking locally produced youngsters - in fact, performance and results have dipped significantly at this level since Neil Warnock arrived. We may have a bit of continuity in selection this season and, eventually, that may lead to improvements, but potential first team footballers? I don't see that happening for a couple of reasons, first, City don't give first team debuts in league matches to anyone who hasn't been signed recently these days and, second, although I still have some hopes for Cameron Coxe if they stopped using him as a (f)utility player, there's no one at that level playing well enough to break through into senior football at league level.

  9. #784

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I've not seen any improvements in style of play from last season yet and I've also not seen anything to indicate that the team has improved from what we had when we were picking locally produced youngsters - in fact, performance and results have dipped significantly at this level since Neil Warnock arrived. We may have a bit of continuity in selection this season and, eventually, that may lead to improvements, but potential first team footballers? I don't see that happening for a couple of reasons, first, City don't give first team debuts in league matches to anyone who hasn't been signed recently these days and, second, although I still have some hopes for Cameron Coxe if they stopped using him as a (f)utility player, there's no one at that level playing well enough to break through into senior football at league level.
    But, surely, your second reason explains the first one. Or are you saying we should be playing youngsters whether they're good enough or not and that will benefit both the club and the youngsters themselves? How's that policy been paying off at Glamorgan this season?

    After all the upheaval at u-23 level it finally looks like its settling down. Hopefully they can start playing some decent football and the better ones can push on. For all the good results we used to have it didn't produce many first teamers, we'll have to wait and see if the shake-up (and keeping the talented Academy lads well away from it) will pay dividends in the long run.

  10. #785

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    But, surely, your second reason explains the first one. Or are you saying we should be playing youngsters whether they're good enough or not and that will benefit both the club and the youngsters themselves? How's that policy been paying off at Glamorgan this season?

    After all the upheaval at u-23 level it finally looks like its settling down. Hopefully they can start playing some decent football and the better ones can push on. For all the good results we used to have it didn't produce many first teamers, we'll have to wait and see if the shake-up (and keeping the talented Academy lads well away from it) will pay dividends in the long run.
    This is a conversation that's been had plenty of times on here, but I still say that there is no encouragement whatsoever given to locally produced young players at the club once they reach an age when a decision is made about giving them professional contracts. The club hand out so many of these contracts, but there seems little point to it currently, because the youngsters concerned have next to no chance of playing for the first team and surely the whole point of making someone a full time professional is that they are considered realistic contenders to make it into the first team?

    I don't accept the argument that just because we don't have first teamers who came up through the ranks that it automatically means we haven't had any who were good enough to make it at senior level for the club. If you play for a club that has not shown any faith in youth for years, then this is bound to have an influence on the way you approach your time there - in the end, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy because any lads from this area with a level of talent which gives them that reasonable chance of making a long career for themselves in the game will decide not to bother with Cardiff because they have no recent precedents of local youngsters "making it" at the club.

    As for the current crop of Development team players, I did say a degree of continuity might result in some improvement and it would be unfair to write off players such as Ryan Price and Dan Martin because they've only just arrived here, but I'm not seeing anything from the trialists we gave contracts to over the course of 16/17 and last season to suggest they are an improvement on what we had.

  11. #786

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    This is a conversation that's been had plenty of times on here, but I still say that there is no encouragement whatsoever given to locally produced young players at the club once they reach an age when a decision is made about giving them professional contracts. The club hand out so many of these contracts, but there seems little point to it currently, because the youngsters concerned have next to no chance of playing for the first team and surely the whole point of making someone a full time professional is that they are considered realistic contenders to make it into the first team?

    I don't accept the argument that just because we don't have first teamers who came up through the ranks that it automatically means we haven't had any who were good enough to make it at senior level for the club. If you play for a club that has not shown any faith in youth for years, then this is bound to have an influence on the way you approach your time there - in the end, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy because any lads from this area with a level of talent which gives them that reasonable chance of making a long career for themselves in the game will decide not to bother with Cardiff because they have no recent precedents of local youngsters "making it" at the club.

    As for the current crop of Development team players, I did say a degree of continuity might result in some improvement and it would be unfair to write off players such as Ryan Price and Dan Martin because they've only just arrived here, but I'm not seeing anything from the trialists we gave contracts to over the course of 16/17 and last season to suggest they are an improvement on what we had.
    One thing that doesn't help the under-23s at present is that neither Warnock or Bellamy seem the slightest bit interested. I remember Bellamy saying recently that the progression from under-18s should be to first team football (here or on loan) rather than to the under-23s which I pretty much agree with although I think it's a bit unrealistic. There's an interesting piece here with his views on last Saturday's Academy game. He's obviously very happy that a few under 16s got fast tracked in which seems to be in stark contrast to his view on under 18s being fast tracked into the under-23s.

    https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...yed-very-well/

  12. #787

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    A good win for the Academy boys this morning, 3-2 against Watford with all the goals coming in the last twenty minutes. Another terrific game. Very competitive with a real edge to it, some bad tackles flying in and I heard quite a few naughty words. Bellamy was up for it (of course), he managed to get in a shouting match with the linesman on the opposite side of the pitch which was funny. We used an interesting system, three at the back when we were in possession with right wing back Connor Davies tracking back to make a four when not, with the three moving over so centre back Joel Bagan became a left back. I think.

    Hopefully TOBW will do a write-up, it was an eventful game. On what I've seen this season I'd definitely recommend going down to watch next time they're at home, which is December 1st apparently. Five away games now then three weeks off, I've absolutely no idea what that's about. Bizarre.

  13. #788

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    i do read this thread with interest and admire your posts along with bob but to me the whole academy and u-23 development is dead in the water bringing players through to the first team not just with the city but all pro clubs . is there any point running academys anymore with the costs involved ?

  14. #789

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    A good win for the Academy boys this morning, 3-2 against Watford with all the goals coming in the last twenty minutes. Another terrific game. Very competitive with a real edge to it, some bad tackles flying in and I heard quite a few naughty words. Bellamy was up for it (of course), he managed to get in a shouting match with the linesman on the opposite side of the pitch which was funny. We used an interesting system, three at the back when we were in possession with right wing back Connor Davies tracking back to make a four when not, with the three moving over so centre back Joel Bagan became a left back. I think.

    Hopefully TOBW will do a write-up, it was an eventful game. On what I've seen this season I'd definitely recommend going down to watch next time they're at home, which is December 1st apparently. Five away games now then three weeks off, I've absolutely no idea what that's about. Bizarre.
    Was having some dodgy electrics at my new home, hopefully, sorted out yesterday, so I couldn't make the game - no Sion Spence again I see, he must be injured.

  15. #790

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    i do read this thread with interest and admire your posts along with bob but to me the whole academy and u-23 development is dead in the water bringing players through to the first team not just with the city but all pro clubs . is there any point running academys anymore with the costs involved ?
    Whether with an Academy or not, there has to be youth team football for professional clubs surely? Anyway, on purely football grounds, the Under 18 matches I've seen this season have been more watchable than almost any involving the first team and all involving the Under 23s I've seen since early August.

    I've not got the time or inclination to check this today, but I would have thought nearly every club with an Academy has produced more first team footballers during this decade than Cardiff City has. Of course, that could mean that we have just not had any youngsters who were good enough to do so during that time, but I would also argue that there has been a prevailing view at the club among recent managers in particular which has made it almost impossible for young players to break into the first team.

    It's not the same thing, but I've read a few good things about Semi Ajayi this season and I notice that last night he was chosen as Man of the Match in the televised Rotherham v Stoke match last night. This would appear to indicate that some credit should be given to Russell Slade for signing him, but to what purpose? He (or Neil Warnock I'd say) was never going to pick him - Slade just ignored youth football while he was here.

    I agree that the Academy system has not worked as it was intended to and would have no problem with something different being tried, but my strong feeling is that, whatever was in place, it would have made no difference in terms of Cardiff City, because the men making the decisions on senior team selection at the club have, Declan John apart, had no intention of picking locally produced youngsters in first team league games.

  16. #791

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Was having some dodgy electrics at my new home, hopefully, sorted out yesterday, so I couldn't make the game - no Sion Spence again I see, he must be injured.
    I assume so, yes. Keenan Patten's been missing too.

    It's a shame you missed the game, you'd have enjoyed it. A real edge to it, I'm not sure where that came from. There was a clash of heads early on between Reynolds and their player, whose nose was bust open and required a lot of treatment before, presumably, going to hospital. The incident led to a bad tempered kerfuffle between about ten players even though it was surely an accident. Bagan then got injured after a tackle, King too, Griffiths in the second half as well. Their sub got warned after an over the top tackle on King too.

    Not quite the flowing game of last week, understandably, but we deserved the win. It was an unusual system but it worked ok. Connor Davies worked very hard up and down the right hand side, Isaak Davies took his goals well and Mayembe looked to have something about him on the left wing. Ratcliffe's handling was excellent throughout, he looks promising, but everyone played their part. Very interesting and entertaining.

  17. #792

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    i do read this thread with interest and admire your posts along with bob but to me the whole academy and u-23 development is dead in the water bringing players through to the first team not just with the city but all pro clubs . is there any point running academys anymore with the costs involved ?
    I'm really not sure to be honest. It hasn't paid off for us in recent years but there seems to be a lot of talent coming through at all age groups presently, hopefully it's not a false dawn. If the Academy system is a waste of time then nobody told the two u-18 teams I saw yesterday, nobody has told Bellamy either. There was an intensity there that makes me think, rightly or wrongly, that Academy football is still relevant.

  18. #793

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    James Waite was back for the under-23s at QPR today and there were goals for Ciaron Brown and Jack Bodenham but they still lost 3-2. Hopefully that will shut up the idiot in this thread who keeps saying their results are going to improve soon.

  19. #794

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    i do read this thread with interest and admire your posts along with bob but to me the whole academy and u-23 development is dead in the water bringing players through to the first team not just with the city but all pro clubs . is there any point running academys anymore with the costs involved ?

    Two words for you Mozzer - Swansea Town

    Most of their squad come from their 18s and 23s

  20. #795

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    James Waite was back for the under-23s at QPR today and there were goals for Ciaron Brown and Jack Bodenham but they still lost 3-2. Hopefully that will shut up the idiot in this thread who keeps saying their results are going to improve soon.
    Good to see Waite back - I suppose he may have been the young midfield player Warnock talked about a month ago. To repeat the mantra you hear from many youth coaches, it's about development of players not results at the levels below the first team. The Development team is not getting results, so no problem there apparently, but I believe that, at City anyway, it is not an environment in which you see players improving - more the opposite actually.

  21. #796

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Good to see Waite back - I suppose he may have been the young midfield player Warnock talked about a month ago. To repeat the mantra you hear from many youth coaches, it's about development of players not results at the levels below the first team. The Development team is not getting results, so no problem there apparently, but I believe that, at City anyway, it is not an environment in which you see players improving - more the opposite actually.
    Another lopsided line-up yesterday, looked like Coxe and Martin out wide, but to be fair the spine of that team looks ok. Brown & Bodenham at the back, Duffus, Veale and Waite with Meite up front. There's some potential there, whether it gets realised or not is another matter, I accept that.

  22. #797
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    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...


  23. #798

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Do the U18's play over treforest?

  24. #799

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieccfc View Post
    Do the U18's play over treforest?
    Leckwith usually mate. The academy have a Twitter page

  25. #800

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    Leckwith usually mate. The academy have a Twitter page
    Cheers Gringo, is it just the kids playing over treforest then?

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