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Thread: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

  1. #511

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    The blow out of youngsters before, influx of triallists would indicate what to you, Bob?

    The previous crop weren't good enough or poor development?

    I'd have thought the former given the promising lower level groups we have.
    Warnock was saying last week that he feels we need one or two more experienced Under 23s for the Development team and has been trying to persuade Vincent Tan that we should try to take on a few such players (there must be stacks of them out there without contracts after being released by their clubs in the summer).

    I must admit that I didn't think much of the idea at first, because it struck me as if we were looking to go down the O'Sullivan and Wharton route again, but I suppose it's different because we're talking about players who you'd think would be busting a gut to make the most of the second chance they've been given as opposed to someone who had almost become "part of the furniture" at City.

    We had quite a few trialists playing for us in the early weeks of last season and that's how we ended up with Ibrahim Meite - perhaps there's provision for one such signing every season now?

    I've just been looking at David Brooks' Wikipedia page which says that he was involved with the Man City Academy from the age of seven, "before he switched to the Sheffield United academy in 2014". That wording leaves it open as to whether he turned down a deal that was on offer from Man City to sign for a club that was then in League One, but, as he was seventeen at the time, it seems far more likely to me that he had been released by Man City. For me, that's the sort of age group City should be looking at - we do sign youngsters released by Premier League clubs every year, but, invariably, they struggle to establish themselves in our Under 18 side and are usually no better than the lads we already have - Ryan Reynolds, who left Everton this summer, was doing well for us at Under 23 and Under 18 level mind, but he has not played since he sustained a serious looking injury playing for the Development team about a month ago.

  2. #512

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    It's a tricky one. Someone like Meite is a punt; at this point in time I don't think he'll make it with us but is cheap enough to have justified bringing in.

    Former Prem youth can be good enough to play in league, maybe not at Champ level. Prem teams do tend to hoover up any promising talent in sight, so quite a few fall by the wayside. Maybe it takes them years to get over the disappointment of having been dropped; those with the mental strength will do fairly well.

    If we're smart in those we target it could well pay off.

  3. #513

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Highlights of the recent cup victory v Merthyr Town are now on IFollow.

    U23 Development squad home to Southampton tomorrow ko 1pm. Given our league game yesterday and big game on the weekend, together with a few injuries, I imagine we'll be fielding a few trialists and youngsters in this game too.

  4. #514

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    It's a tricky one. Someone like Meite is a punt; at this point in time I don't think he'll make it with us but is cheap enough to have justified bringing in.

    Former Prem youth can be good enough to play in league, maybe not at Champ level. Prem teams do tend to hoover up any promising talent in sight, so quite a few fall by the wayside. Maybe it takes them years to get over the disappointment of having been dropped; those with the mental strength will do fairly well.

    If we're smart in those we target it could well pay off.
    There was an article about the AC Milan team who went to a couple of champions league finals in a short period of time and their strategy (ensuring that "injury prone" or "old" players played on and to a very high level) at this time - many different strategies can work and the ultimate team will be able to maximise all. Picking up the best released by the premier league is a smart move.

  5. #515
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    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    We lost 0 - 1 to Southampton this afternoon with Fred and Mark Harris both starting. Saints report below:

    https://southamptonfc.com/news/2017-...cardiff-saints

    There are more new names to me in the starting line up. Looks like a fair number of trialists or new signings are in the club:

    Cardiff City starting 11

    1 GEORGE RATCLIFFE (GK)
    2 CAMERON COXE
    3 NATHAN MAVILA
    4 AMOS NASHA
    5 TYRONE DUFFUS (C)
    6 CONNOR YOUNG
    7 LAMIN CONTE
    8 LEWIS HEWITT
    9 FREDERIC GOUNONGBE - JAMES WAITE (59′)
    10 MARK HARRIS
    11 KRIS OWENS

    Substitutes

    12 JAMES WAITE

    No other subs named.

  6. #516

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Southampton just about deserved their win although it took a screamer late on to win it for them. City competed quite well but with so many unfamiliar faces playing, it wasn't surprising that they sometimes lacked cohesion. I thought Lamin Conte (plays for STM Sports) showed potential and had pace to burn which troubled the visitors on occasions.
    For anybody at a loose end tomorrow, the Academy play the Wurzels Academy at Leckwith, ko 11am.

  7. #517

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    We lost 0 - 1 to Southampton this afternoon with Fred and Mark Harris both starting. Saints report below:

    https://southamptonfc.com/news/2017-...cardiff-saints

    There are more new names to me in the starting line up. Looks like a fair number of trialists or new signings are in the club:

    Cardiff City starting 11

    1 GEORGE RATCLIFFE (GK)
    2 CAMERON COXE
    3 NATHAN MAVILA
    4 AMOS NASHA
    5 TYRONE DUFFUS (C)
    6 CONNOR YOUNG
    7 LAMIN CONTE
    8 LEWIS HEWITT
    9 FREDERIC GOUNONGBE - JAMES WAITE (59′)
    10 MARK HARRIS
    11 KRIS OWENS

    Substitutes

    12 JAMES WAITE

    No other subs named.
    Alfie Jones, Southampton captain, is one of those Welsh/English qualifying players. Hopefully he gets called up soon.

  8. #518

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Alfie Jones, Southampton captain, is one of those Welsh/English qualifying players. Hopefully he gets called up soon.
    P.s I don't believe he has had any contact from either nation so if you know someone in the Welsh camp point them in his direction.

  9. #519

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    P.s I don't believe he has had any contact from either nation so if you know someone in the Welsh camp point them in his direction.
    Rob Page and Paul Bodin from the Welsh set up were both there today so I would hope they know.

  10. #520

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    TOBW. To answer your Brooks query, I'm pretty certain Man City did release Brooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    P.s I don't believe he has had any contact from either nation so if you know someone in the Welsh camp point them in his direction.
    Think Zenith might have been onto this a few months back? He was looking for a contact at the FAW to tell them and a dual national defender at Southampton. Pretty sure it was Zenith anyway.

  11. #521

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    TOBW. To answer your Brooks query, I'm pretty certain Man City did release Brooks.


    Just to say that there's another game at Leckwith today - the Under 18s match with Bristol City has been brought forward twenty four hours and kicks off at 11 o clock.

  12. #522

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Many congratulations to Jack Bodenham, Sion Spence and James Waite who have just been named in the Wales U19 squad.

  13. #523

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    With apologies to George Ratcliffe!!

  14. #524

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post


    Just to say that there's another game at Leckwith today - the Under 18s match with Bristol City has been brought forward twenty four hours and kicks off at 11 o clock.
    Hope no one turned up at Leckwith on the back of what I said, because it turned out that the match was played at Treforest! City won 2-0 thanks to goals by Sion Spence and Isaak Davies in the second half.

  15. #525

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Hope no one turned up at Leckwith on the back of what I said, because it turned out that the match was played at Treforest! City won 2-0 thanks to goals by Sion Spence and Isaak Davies in the second half.

  16. #526

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    My report on today's game and a few paragraphs on yesterday's game with Southampton.

    http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/

  17. #527

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Hope no one turned up at Leckwith on the back of what I said, because it turned out that the match was played at Treforest! City won 2-0 thanks to goals by Sion Spence and Isaak Davies in the second half.
    Not your fault. The Club fixture list said Leckwith!

  18. #528

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyncoed Slumdog View Post
    Not your fault. The Club fixture list said Leckwith!
    I thought it did.

  19. #529

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Spence and Isaac Davies again. They must be pushing for the under 23s now

  20. #530

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    My report on today's game and a few paragraphs on yesterday's game with Southampton.

    http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/
    Just got round to reading both reports. Cheers! I'm guessing none of the trialists yet caught the eye in the older age groups? Did a quick Welsh check on Ricardo Rees for Brizzle and a couple of vague websites claim he's English. Still see fair few Welshies as usual with them. Think Chaliss and Morrell are two of the bigger hopes though the later would've been too old to play in the game you saw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnmower View Post
    Spence and Isaac Davies again. They must be pushing for the under 23s now
    Think both are still 16 too? So encouraging.

    A side thought for me is the DVP looks quite disjointed this year. As Loramski proposed earlier in the thread, are they better off in the the younger groups where they can dominate a bit more? I don't have an opinion as I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. But I suppose the club should be careful to not be too relaxed about pushing these lads a little.

  21. #531

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    Just got round to reading both reports. Cheers! I'm guessing none of the trialists yet caught the eye in the older age groups? Did a quick Welsh check on Ricardo Rees for Brizzle and a couple of vague websites claim he's English. Still see fair few Welshies as usual with them. Think Chaliss and Morrell are two of the bigger hopes though the later would've been too old to play in the game you saw.



    Think both are still 16 too? So encouraging.

    A side thought for me is the DVP looks quite disjointed this year. As Loramski proposed earlier in the thread, are they better off in the the younger groups where they can dominate a bit more? I don't have an opinion as I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. But I suppose the club should be careful to not be too relaxed about pushing these lads a little.
    I think Spence turned 17 last month.

    Regarding the second point, the Under 23 side is also called the Development team. so the original intention was, surely, to "develop" young players and make the jump into first team football less of a steep one?

    The system being used this season seems to be designed to stop teenagers challenging for a first team place (except for in some Cup games or meaningless end of season matches), so it's essentially a confirmation of the unofficial policy that has been in place for a few years now - that is we don't pick teenagers for Championship matches unless there is nothing to play for.

    I don't agree with keeping someone like Spence in the youth team when his performances this season are better than they were last year when he played far more for the Development team than he is doing now, but I suppose a structure whereby players eligible for the Under 18s stuck with them until they reached nineteen wouldn't be a disaster as long as there was a recognition that an Under 18 player can come along every now and then who is good enough to do a decent job for the first team in a meaningful Championship match - lately, there seems to be a view prevailing at the club that any teenager cannot be good enough to play in a league match in which the points are important.

  22. #532

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I think Spence turned 17 last month.

    Regarding the second point, the Under 23 side is also called the Development team. so the original intention was, surely, to "develop" young players and make the jump into first team football less of a steep one?

    The system being used this season seems to be designed to stop teenagers challenging for a first team place (except for in some Cup games or meaningless end of season matches), so it's essentially a confirmation of the unofficial policy that has been in place for a few years now - that is we don't pick teenagers for Championship matches unless there is nothing to play for.

    I don't agree with keeping someone like Spence in the youth team when his performances this season are better than they were last year when he played far more for the Development team than he is doing now, but I suppose a structure whereby players eligible for the Under 18s stuck with them until they reached nineteen wouldn't be a disaster as long as there was a recognition that an Under 18 player can come along every now and then who is good enough to do a decent job for the first team in a meaningful Championship match - lately, there seems to be a view prevailing at the club that any teenager cannot be good enough to play in a league match in which the points are important.
    You're making some very persuasive points here and I find myself agreeing with you're saying, specifically in regard to the player mentioned. If we are see him hold back all season then it certainly seems a mystifying choice. There is surely the spaces in the DVP to allow for the younger players to be promoted and perhaps, as you make the point very well, they should be promoted sooner rather than later. But it does seem to be a considered choice to hold back the brighter hopefuls at present. Could it be that perhaps someone like CB has requested to work with these lads a tad longer before they player in the higher age groups? Or perhaps a physical growth consideration with the player/s?

    I just wonder if, for the short term, we have a bit of an issue with the DVP team in that it appears really disjointed at present and perhaps not the best environment to build confidence? Confidence building seems to be what a lot of coaches argue is the most important factor in developing youth players. The DVP side seems to be troublingly low on personel at present and I wonder if it might be a tad damaging to the likes of Coxe and Harris who might benefit from being in a more stable and balanced team? I just wonder how much they would be gaining this term when they seem to be playing with 5 or 6 new teammates every week. I'm starting to think we released too many DVP players and mess with the team a bit too much. I'm all for trialists and finding youth players to displace our own, but it seems quite problematic to have no permanent players to plug the gap.

    This was the side Vs Southamption. Was Waite really our only sub!?

    Ratcliffe, Coxe, Trialist, Trialist, Duffus, Young, Trialist, Trialist, Gounongbe, Harris, Trialist.

    bench: Waite.

  23. #533

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Ratcliffe, Spence and Waite start today for Wales U19.

  24. #534

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by emjayblue View Post
    Ratcliffe, Spence and Waite start today for Wales U19.
    Slovakia have just taken the lead after 43 minutes.

  25. #535

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by emjayblue View Post
    Ratcliffe, Spence and Waite start today for Wales U19.
    Cheers Emjay. 1-0 down now. Can't find a stream. Can you?

  26. #536

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    Cheers Emjay. 1-0 down now. Can't find a stream. Can you?
    draggonsoccer58 put up a link on my twitter feed but to no avail as not working sorry! Relying on tweets from them for updates!

  27. #537

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Touray just levelled 1 - 1 now.

  28. #538

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    2 - 1 down, about 10 mins remaining.

  29. #539

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    2 - 1 ft

  30. #540

    Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    You're making some very persuasive points here and I find myself agreeing with you're saying, specifically in regard to the player mentioned. If we are see him hold back all season then it certainly seems a mystifying choice. There is surely the spaces in the DVP to allow for the younger players to be promoted and perhaps, as you make the point very well, they should be promoted sooner rather than later. But it does seem to be a considered choice to hold back the brighter hopefuls at present. Could it be that perhaps someone like CB has requested to work with these lads a tad longer before they player in the higher age groups? Or perhaps a physical growth consideration with the player/s?

    I just wonder if, for the short term, we have a bit of an issue with the DVP team in that it appears really disjointed at present and perhaps not the best environment to build confidence? Confidence building seems to be what a lot of coaches argue is the most important factor in developing youth players. The DVP side seems to be troublingly low on personel at present and I wonder if it might be a tad damaging to the likes of Coxe and Harris who might benefit from being in a more stable and balanced team? I just wonder how much they would be gaining this term when they seem to be playing with 5 or 6 new teammates every week. I'm starting to think we released too many DVP players and mess with the team a bit too much. I'm all for trialists and finding youth players to displace our own, but it seems quite problematic to have no permanent players to plug the gap.

    This was the side Vs Southamption. Was Waite really our only sub!?

    Ratcliffe, Coxe, Trialist, Trialist, Duffus, Young, Trialist, Trialist, Gounongbe, Harris, Trialist.

    bench: Waite.
    He was the only sub because of a host of injuries (three crocks were sitting next to me in the stand) and the fact that Academy players couldn't be used because of a game against the Wurzels the following morning.

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