The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

[the other bob wilson]

Alan Lee in charge of the Ipswich team. Hopefully he can pass on some of his ball mastery to the next generation.

I'm sure you've mentioned this before but I'm surprised Spence hasn't featured more for the under-23s this season. They seem to have identified a core of seven or eight who feature in most games at that level but Spence hasn't quite made the cut, maybe he will now. No rush, of course, but I expected him to be a regular this time round.

I think I've brought up the matter of how Sion Spence has gone from intended first team substitute to not good enough for the Development team twice on my blog this season (I've definitely made mention of it). It's strange how he has gone from being a regular member of the Development squad at the back end of last season to an occasional member of it to me and, on the face of it, there seems to be an admission that City got it wrong a few months back when he was considered to be up to playing against people years older than him in the Under 23s and would have been a sub at Huddersfield if it had not been for a problem with red tape.

When Spence was featuring for the Under 23s last season, he was still being selected for the Under 18s, so he was often playing on Saturdays and Mondays. Therefore, it may be that City have decided that they want to limit him to one game a week even though most 16/17 year olds on the books of a pro club want to do is play as much and as often as they can at that age - he seems quite an athlete as well.

http://www.thepowerof10.info/athlete...hleteid=528196

Anyway, if that is the reason for his non selection in what is effectively our reserve team, then I think it's a poor decision, because he's shown he can do well with the Under 23s and he should be with them if it really has to be one out of the two teams only.

[Loramski]

I think I've brought up the matter of how Sion Spence has gone from intended first team substitute to not good enough for the Development team twice on my blog this season (I've definitely made mention of it). It's strange how he has gone from being a regular member of the Development squad at the back end of last season to an occasional member of it to me and, on the face of it, there seems to be an admission that City got it wrong a few months back when he was considered to be up to playing against people years older than him in the Under 23s and would have been a sub at Huddersfield if it had not been for a problem with red tape.

When Spence was featuring for the Under 23s last season, he was still being selected for the Under 18s, so he was often playing on Saturdays and Mondays. Therefore, it may be that City have decided that they want to limit him to one game a week even though most 16/17 year olds on the books of a pro club want to do is play as much and as often as they can at that age - he seems quite an athlete as well.

http://www.thepowerof10.info/athlete...hleteid=528196

Anyway, if that is the reason for his non selection in what is effectively our reserve team, then I think it's a poor decision, because he's shown he can do well with the Under 23s and he should be with them if it really has to be one out of the two teams only.

My son's (excellent) coach threw me a few years ago when he questioned moving youngsters into higher age groups. He wasn't against it, of course, but he said it wasn't a simple issue. He said there were a number of benefits in keeping talented youngsters involved in their own age group; it gave them a responsibility they wouldn't have at a higher level, taught them leadership skills and, obviously, it's also a huge plus for the other youngsters in that age group to be playing with better players.

I'm not saying any of that is relevant to the Sion Spence situation but it just shows (as if we didn't already know from all the discussions we've had on here about it) that there are many different views on how, and how quickly, to bring talented youngsters through. It's an interesting and complex issue.

[the other bob wilson]

My son's (excellent) coach threw me a few years ago when he questioned moving youngsters into higher age groups. He wasn't against it, of course, but he said it wasn't a simple issue. He said there were a number of benefits in keeping talented youngsters involved in their own age group; it gave them a responsibility they wouldn't have at a higher level, taught them leadership skills and, obviously, it's also a huge plus for the other youngsters in that age group to be playing with better players.

I'm not saying any of that is relevant to the Sion Spence situation but it just shows (as if we didn't already know from all the discussions we've had on here about it) that there are many different views on how, and how quickly, to bring talented youngsters through. It's an interesting and complex issue.

Fair points, but it doesn't really address the one that stands out here - why is a kid who was considered good enough to feature regularly in the Development team at the back end of last season and must have done well enough at that level to be considered ready to be a part of the first team squad for a game against a side that went up, now consigned, almost exclusively, to the youth team?

Since I wrote my previous message on Sion Spence, I received some information which may answer the question I posed above, but, as it was confidential in nature, I can't pass it on here I'm sorry. What I can say though is that it wasn't just Rabbi Matondo who Man City were interested in a year or two back, there was another City youngster they tried to sign, who opted to stay with us after being told that he would be given the sort of chance to prove himself ready for the first team at a younger age than the club have been in the habit of doing with others in recent years. Now, I wonder if playing for the youth team week in, week out, a few months after you were deemed to be ready for the first team fits that criteria? To this observer, there seems a danger that a different decision will be made next time contract discussions are due and if that happens, then the club will have, once again, demonstrated their inability to develop gifted youngsters in a manner which benefits it in terms of producing their own first team players.

[Loramski]

Fair points, but it doesn't really address the one that stands out here - why is a kid who was considered good enough to feature regularly in the Development team at the back end of last season and must have done well enough at that level to be considered ready to be a part of the first team squad for a game against a side that went up, now consigned, almost exclusively, to the youth team?

Since I wrote my previous message on Sion Spence, I received some information which may answer the question I posed above, but, as it was confidential in nature, I can't pass it on here I'm sorry. What I can say though is that it wasn't just Rabbi Matondo who Man City were interested in a year or two back, there was another City youngster they tried to sign, who opted to stay with us after being told that he would be given the sort of chance to prove himself ready for the first team at a younger age than the club have been in the habit of doing with others in recent years. Now, I wonder if playing for the youth team week in, week out, a few months after you were deemed to be ready for the first team fits that criteria? To this observer, there seems a danger that a different decision will be made next time contract discussions are due and if that happens, then the club will have, once again, demonstrated their inability to develop gifted youngsters in a manner which benefits it in terms of producing their own first team players.

I'm not saying you're calling this wrong at all, just making the point that it can be such a complex issue that I'm wary of diving in to criticise the club without being aware of all the facts.

Did we ever find out what went wrong with Jarrad Welch here after? I see he's now at Weston-Super-Mare. He got a red card earlier in the season and came on as sub on Saturday as Weston lost to Welling. One of Welling's goals was scored by Eli Phipps, on loan from Colchester.

[the other bob wilson]

I'm not saying you're calling this wrong at all, just making the point that it can be such a complex issue that I'm wary of diving in to criticise the club without being aware of all the facts.

Did we ever find out what went wrong with Jarrad Welch here after? I see he's now at Weston-Super-Mare. He got a red card earlier in the season and came on as sub on Saturday as Weston lost to Welling. One of Welling's goals was scored by Eli Phipps, on loan from Colchester.

It's not a case of me being right or wrong. To me, it's plain that the club had one plan for Spence's development at the end of last season and now they have a completely different one - as the two approaches are so different, I believe it's impossible to argue that what are seeing is some smoothly operating plan that was mapped out months in advance.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

It's not a case of me being right or wrong. To me, it's plain that the club had one plan for Spence's development at the end of last season and now they have a completely different one - as the two approaches are so different, I believe it's impossible to argue that what are seeing is some smoothly operating plan that was mapped out months in advance.

End of last season = nothing to play for. Perfect time to have given him a game.
Now = chasing promotion, in top two. Situation has completely changed.

I do agree tho he should, if good enough, be playing at DVP level.

[the other bob wilson]

End of last season = nothing to play for. Perfect time to have given him a game.
Now = chasing promotion, in top two. Situation has completely changed.

You honestly don't get it do you or do you just want an argument? Spence was playing for the Development team last season and he has barely featured for them this time around - how many times have you seen him play?

[City123]

Fair points, but it doesn't really address the one that stands out here - why is a kid who was considered good enough to feature regularly in the Development team at the back end of last season and must have done well enough at that level to be considered ready to be a part of the first team squad for a game against a side that went up, now consigned, almost exclusively, to the youth team?

Since I wrote my previous message on Sion Spence, I received some information which may answer the question I posed above, but, as it was confidential in nature, I can't pass it on here I'm sorry. What I can say though is that it wasn't just Rabbi Matondo who Man City were interested in a year or two back, there was another City youngster they tried to sign, who opted to stay with us after being told that he would be given the sort of chance to prove himself ready for the first team at a younger age than the club have been in the habit of doing with others in recent years. Now, I wonder if playing for the youth team week in, week out, a few months after you were deemed to be ready for the first team fits that criteria? To this observer, there seems a danger that a different decision will be made next time contract discussions are due and if that happens, then the club will have, once again, demonstrated their inability to develop gifted youngsters in a manner which benefits it in terms of producing their own first team players.

Apparently he rejected a couple of other big clubs too

I saw this in an interview with Matondo: ""I was so close to moving [to City] at one stage but then it didn't end up happening but my parents wanted me to come to City because they had been after me and haven't given up on me."

Yeah, I'm sure that's why they wanted you to move to Manchester.... £££££

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Fair points, but it doesn't really address the one that stands out here - why is a kid who was considered good enough to feature regularly in the Development team at the back end of last season and must have done well enough at that level to be considered ready to be a part of the first team squad for a game against a side that went up, now consigned, almost exclusively, to the youth team?

Since I wrote my previous message on Sion Spence, I received some information which may answer the question I posed above, but, as it was confidential in nature, I can't pass it on here I'm sorry. What I can say though is that it wasn't just Rabbi Matondo who Man City were interested in a year or two back, there was another City youngster they tried to sign, who opted to stay with us after being told that he would be given the sort of chance to prove himself ready for the first team at a younger age than the club have been in the habit of doing with others in recent years. Now, I wonder if playing for the youth team week in, week out, a few months after you were deemed to be ready for the first team fits that criteria? To this observer, there seems a danger that a different decision will be made next time contract discussions are due and if that happens, then the club will have, once again, demonstrated their inability to develop gifted youngsters in a manner which benefits it in terms of producing their own first team players.

It's not really that confidential, pretty well known other clubs were after him.

As for the rest, last season he could have been thrown on for a game when we had dead rubber matches.

Now? Completely different situation. I suspect most players and parents would understand that - he's plenty of time ahead of him. We also don't know what goes on at training, for example - they may have seen signs of possible regression, wanted him to stay at that level to get confidence back etc.

[the other bob wilson]

It's not really that confidential, pretty well known other clubs were after him.

As for the rest, last season he could have been thrown on for a game when we had dead rubber matches.

Now? Completely different situation. I suspect most players and parents would understand that - he's plenty of time ahead of him. We also don't know what goes on at training, for example - they may have seen signs of possible regression, wanted him to stay at that level to get confidence back etc.

Er you don't seem to understand, I said I wouldn't reveal the confidential information I had been given and I did that because it was given to me in confidence, so I was hardly going to then tell all and sundry what it was - nothing in my message related to the nature of the information I was given.