The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

[billy.ronson]

They'd only scored 5 times in 12 matches before today too!

A genuine question, but did the promotion of Morison to 1st team manager have a bigger impact on our Under 21s than expected ??
They were top of their league and unbeaten until he moved up!! They declined so quickly in the 2nd half of last season once he moved up and now seem to be really struggling and on a poor run of results .
A lot on here, me included were hopeful that we had a good batch of youngsters ready to push for 1st team but that doesn't seem to have happened?

[City123]

A genuine question, but did the promotion of Morison to 1st team manager have a bigger impact on our Under 21s than expected ??
They were top of their league and unbeaten until he moved up!! They declined so quickly in the 2nd half of last season once he moved up and now seem to be really struggling and on a poor run of results .
A lot on here, me included were hopeful that we had a good batch of youngsters ready to push for 1st team but that doesn't seem to have happened?

It's a very different team, quite have few have been moved on

[billy.ronson]

It's a very different team, quite have few have been moved on

I understand that but it started declining last season ....

[City123]

I understand that but it started declining last season ....

That was a different team to the one that started the season. Connolly, Zimba, Evans, Hughes, Patten and Sang were all loaned out in January. Isaak Davies promoted to the first team followed by Denham & King

[billy.ronson]

Thanks ... It's frustrating to see Denham being injured for so long and Davies only just coming back. Even more so with Colwill , is he fully fit ? Where should he play ? I really don't know the solution to getting him playing every week !

[Rjk]

Thanks ... It's frustrating to see Denham being injured for so long and Davies only just coming back. Even more so with Colwill , is he fully fit ? Where should he play ? I really don't know the solution to getting him playing every week !

perhaps the experiment with the rugby fitness coach didn't go well with the younger players

[the other bob wilson]

In their last league game, the under 21s played really well to beat top of the table Bristol City, who had half of team of pretty regular first teamers, 1-0. A fortnight later, a team not too different from that one were embarrassed by a Watford side which had lost all but one of their league games before yesterday. On Friday, I watched them at Wolves and they wouldn't have scored if they were still playing now, It wasn't quite as bad on the attacking front yesterday, at least the opposition keeper made a couple of saves, but, throw in the first team game on Saturday and there's been three games from Cardiff City in five days where the standard of creativity and finishing has been abysmal. There really seems to be an air of gloom and despondency around the club at the moment and the lack of any lead from the top is only adding to it.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

David Ornstein says Biancheri has gone to Man United. Passed a medical over the weekend apparently.

[Rjk]

David Ornstein says Biancheri has gone to Man United. Passed a medical over the weekend apparently.

that's disappointing, they really need to change the rules on poaching youngsters, it's way too stacked in favour of the biggest clubs

[Pedro de la Rosa]

that's disappointing, they really need to change the rules on poaching youngsters, it's way too stacked in favour of the biggest clubs

Yeh, good luck with that…

[Trigger]

David Ornstein says Biancheri has gone to Man United. Passed a medical over the weekend apparently.

Begs the question of is the academy providing any value whilst at cat 2.

The better ones seem to leave before we can even get much of a fee.

The others that do progress don't seem to be able to get in the side.

I suppose you are still developing players that will have a career somewhere in the pyramid, much like we take on players who may have come through at bigger clubs. Maybe that's the purpose, because it rarely seems to benefit the club much.

[FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead]

Begs the question of is the academy providing any value whilst at cat 2.

The better ones seem to leave before we can even get much of a fee.

The others that do progress don't seem to be able to get in the side.

I suppose you are still developing players that will have a career somewhere in the pyramid, much like we take on players who may have come through at bigger clubs. Maybe that's the purpose, because it rarely seems to benefit the club much.

I always think Brentford had the right idea here.

All their young talent was getting poached by big clubs for peanuts, so they scrapped their academy altogether and established a "B" team that picks up released 16-18 year olds. It costs far less to run and they regularly play against men's teams in the UK and abroad (I'm sure we could do something similar against Welsh Prem clubs).

It's already produced several first team Premier League players including Chris Mepham.

You obviously need a good scouting network, but when you look at Denham, Sang, and Bagan, this is actually something we're already doing with some degree of success.

The obvious question is what would happen to the next Ruben Colwill or Isaak Davies, but academy success stories have become so thin on the ground for us, you do have to question if it's a worthy investment.

[Rjk]

I always think Brentford had the right idea here.

All their young talent was getting poached by big clubs for peanuts, so they scrapped their academy altogether and established a "B" team that picks up released 16-18 year olds. It costs far less to run and they regularly play against men's teams in the UK and abroad (I'm sure we could do something similar against Welsh Prem clubs).

It's already produced several first team Premier League players including Chris Mepham.

You obviously need a good scouting network, but when you look at Denham, Sang, and Bagan, this is actually something we're already doing with some degree of success.

The obvious question is what would happen to the next Ruben Colwill or Isaak Davies, but academy success stories have become so thin on the ground for us, you do have to question if it's a worthy investment.

I wouldn't like to see this, but you can understand the logic

[LA Bluebird]

Absolute joke, you do wonder what goes through the players head as the pathway to development and first team football at a team like United is a minefield and only one or two in a hundred will make it but then I suppose it hasn’t worked out too bad for Matondo.

Doesn’t seem to be much point in any team at this level having an academy but equally there are success stories out there, Bristol have done well to hang on to Alex Scott. I’m imagine the lack of stability at the club and recent lack of success developing and bringing youth through also plays heavily into the decision.

[City123]

David Ornstein says Biancheri has gone to Man United. Passed a medical over the weekend apparently.

Him and Crewe gone, PL clubs sniffing around others. What's the point investing when they're poached for next to nothing?

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Doesn’t seem to be much point in any team at this level having an academy but equally there are success stories out there, Bristol have done well to hang on to Alex Scott. I’m imagine the lack of stability at the club and recent lack of success developing and bringing youth through also plays heavily into the decision.

I was talking to a Bristol City supporting mate about this issue the other day. Like you say, they've held onto Scott (until now at least), and they've just sold Antoine Semenyo for about £10m. Both of them joined the club as 17 year olds, but they have others who've been with the club since they were 6 or 7 like Tommy Conway (9 goals this season) and Sam Bell (who scored twice as they beat West Brom on Saturday) who they've kept hold of. They don't seem to have the problem we do with losing academy players to the big teams which he thinks is because they have a track record of giving youngsters regular 1st team game time then selling some them to the premier league (Semenyo, Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan) after a few seasons. A good way to start your career and a reason not to jump ship as a 15/16 year old.

[The Hooded Claw]

That stands to reason. It’s only the last 2 years or so that we’ve been giving any opportunities to our academy players.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

That stands to reason. It’s only the last 2 years or so that we’ve been giving any opportunities to our academy players.

I don't think they're leaving for first team opportunities... They'll be on seriously good money for 17 year olds, and if they don't make it at Man United, they might fall down to us etc (like Denham and Sang), rather than not making it at us and ending up at a Torquay.

[City123]

I don't think they're leaving for first team opportunities... They'll be on seriously good money for 17 year olds, and if they don't make it at Man United, they might fall down to us etc (like Denham and Sang), rather than not making it at us and ending up at a Torquay.

Realistically who's turning them down for us?

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

There needs to be something more in it for lower league clubs. Perhaps better compensation, automatic sell-on clauses or maybe preferential status if a player gets loaned out in a few years time, otherwise more and more clubs will stop bothering.

[The Hooded Claw]

I don't think they're leaving for first team opportunities... They'll be on seriously good money for 17 year olds, and if they don't make it at Man United, they might fall down to us etc (like Denham and Sang), rather than not making it at us and ending up at a Torquay.

What I mean is that compared to Bristol City (and Swansea) we still have a poor reputation for converting academy players to first teamers, so it’s going to affect our ability to retain talent.
The evidence is out there: they regularly sell home grown players for big fees, we end up losing ours when they are 15 or 16.
The scalping from big clubs is (as usual) unfair, but those other clubs are in the same situation as us.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

What I mean is that compared to Bristol City (and Swansea) we still have a poor reputation for converting academy players to first teamers, so it’s going to affect our ability to retain talent.
The evidence is out there: they regularly sell home grown players for big fees, we end up losing ours when they are 15 or 16.
The scalping from big clubs is (as usual) unfair, but those other clubs are in the same situation as us.

I bet they'll lose a similar number, we just won't hear about them because they've not broken through.

Allededly Crew is on more money than Colwill and Davies. It is life changing money for him and we aren't in a position to match that.

[Rjk]

so is the biancheri transfer considered an international transfer?

[The Hooded Claw]

I wouldn't like to see this, but you can understand the logic

Agreed. Brentford are operating in a congested area in West London. We aren’t.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Agreed. Brentford are operating in a congested area in West London. We aren’t.

It doesn't matter though, Biancheri and Crew have gone to Manchester and Leeds, area doesn't come in to it then!

Another issue is, all of our best players will play for Wales at youth level, so they're even more high profile.