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Thread: Labour party, a safe place to be vile

  1. #26

    Re: Labour party, a safe place to be vile

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948 View Post
    If we were to ever vote for independence I hope the people of Wales will wake up given time and vote for the party of the right. There will always be right leaning people in Wales and there are far more Tories in Wales and people with right wing views than the luvvies in Pontcanna give Wales credit for.
    I would say that the average person is more right-wing than world history's worst despots when it comes to law and order. Most would happily return to capital punishment. But ask them whether they would be prepared to hang in error (as many before have) and they're stumped for a logical answer.

    As for all this contrived anti-semitic stuff, Voltaire said: "To learn who rules over you, simply discover who you are not allowed to criticise."

  2. #27

    Re: Labour party, a safe place to be vile

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948 View Post
    So we'd get indy but you'd still suggest it would be shameful? What a muppet you are.
    Liken it to leaving a pub, or being thrown out of a pub. You get the same outcome, one is a bit more respectable than the other.

  3. #28

    Re: Labour party, a safe place to be vile

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelsonca61 View Post
    As a Plaid voter last time out, i'm not really rubbishing it. I just tend to accept the results of elections and get on with it, I liken yourself to a politician, you will not accept what you don't see yourself, Brexit being the obvious example, the people voted (I never), a decision was given to politicians by way of the vote and politicians still tell the people who voted, they voted incorrectly, have you noticed a big rise in UKIP votes in Wales? they are not a party who i could NOT vote for but a great deal many did and think they are the only alternative to the Tories, for me the issue of UKIP becoming a well represented party in Wales is far more important than skulking about independence, the valleys received a disproportionate level of funding from the EU compared to many other places in the UK, much of the money was squandered, the people saw next to nothing and voted accordingly, I don't think the question will be genuinely thought about by the majority of Welsh people, I think they will think of other things that mean more to them than parochialism. IMO gaining independence from England isn't going to be the catalyst to Wales growing socially and economically, however, and if it did, I would be delighted, I don't have any axe to grind either way.
    I mean, I haven't said any opinions on anything other than independence in this thread. Your assumption that I don't respect the vote, or your message about ukip being a power are something I haven't addressed here. I do respect the vote, and I do think people made the wrong decision. It's possible to be in both camps there. About ukip being a rising party, I think they've already risen. There was a gap for an anti immigration party who give you someone else to blame rather than the current government.

  4. #29

    Re: Labour party, a safe place to be vile

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy31 View Post
    Liken it to leaving a pub, or being thrown out of a pub. You get the same outcome, one is a bit more respectable than the other.
    I see it more as the pub ceasing to exist. If the UK is no more we are not getting "thrown out".

  5. #30

    Re: Labour party, a safe place to be vile

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948 View Post
    I see it more as the pub ceasing to exist. If the UK is no more we are not getting "thrown out".
    Oh I see, I wasn't looking at it that way.

  6. #31

    Re: Labour party, a safe place to be vile

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy31 View Post
    Oh I see, I wasn't looking at it that way.
    Of course you weren't because you don't want Indy at any cost do you? You only want it if it's one over on the English/Westminster like most Plaid members. The SNPs campaign is incredibly light on policy but very heavy on Braveheart stuff, Plaid must not go down that ally if they want to succeed.

  7. #32

    Re: Labour party, a safe place to be vile

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948 View Post
    Of course you weren't because you don't want Indy at any cost do you? You only want it if it's one over on the English/Westminster like most Plaid members. The SNPs campaign is incredibly light on policy but very heavy on Braveheart stuff, Plaid must not go down that ally if they want to succeed.
    Well no, youre misunderstanding me.
    If/when Scotland leave, there'll still be a union between the rest. Which is why used the pub analogy in my recent post. You seem to have come at it from another way and thought that there would be no Union (at least, that's what I'm getting from your post).

    I want Indy because I think it's the best thing for Wales. I'd be happy with Indy against our will, just would find it shameful for that to be the case (i.e not believing in yourselves) and would rather get independence because it's a good thing rather than finding ourselves in that scenario by default.

    On the point of wanting it to get over on the English/Westminster. It's not that at all. I primarily want it because Wales is being short changed at every single opportunity by Westminster and that is not likely to change. I also don't see why getting independence would be 'getting one over the english'.

  8. #33

    Re: Labour party, a safe place to be vile

    Anti-semitism is wrong, as is any other form of racism, but one has to question whether drawing comparisons between Nazi policy and Israeli policy should always count as anti-semitism, and therefore has to question where this report is framed from. This will be used by pro-Israeli speakers to make it even more difficult to highlight the occasions Israel steps over the mark while few will have read through it critically.

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