The worlds oldest 18 year old

[Dr Lecter]

Some studies show that immigration is a net cost others that it is a benefit, but all these studies ignore the elephant in the room. Hardly anyone objects to immigration from countries with similar cultures. They object to mass immigration from much poorer countries. This is all about lowering wages and breaking down national borders. When you just look at immigration from much poorer countries there is no benefit, financial or otherwise, for ordinary working people.

Most of the things you describe as problems can be blamed on overcrowding. If it wasn't for immigration there would be no shortage of school places and hospital beds. You can't blame immigrants for that. Everyone wants more money. But more money for them is less for someone already here. You are asking people to take a lower wage or to pay more tax and then be happy about it.

Even people like you think there must be some limit on immigration. For example, according to the UN the population of Africa is due to expand by 2.4 billion in the next 30 years. They can barely cope already so a lot of that surplus population will have to come to Europe. How many should we take - 10 million, a 100 million ? You tell me.

The open borders people think immigration will be reduced by reducing wage differences. When we have no NHS, no free schooling and an average wage equal to an average wage in Afghanistan then we will no longer have any immigration. I doubt that will happen. By that time overpopulation and deforestation will have reduced most third world countries to something like Haiti. The grass will always be greener in Europe.

Thanks for replying without actually addressing the point I raised.

It's helped me to realise that I won't bother wasting my time in future.

[David Vincent]

Interesting article about the founder of the Gatestone Institute - https://www.thenation.com/article/su...i-muslim-hate/

With regards to that article. It makes for a horrible read, no one should feel in danger or be subjected to sexual abuse. Having said that I think maybe you are underestimating how many sick bastards there are in society these days.

According to: http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulati...endingjune2016

I will use the UK because I don't speak German and finding the corresponding figures there might be a little bit time consuming. In the UK from June 2015 - June 2016 there were around 36 thousand rapes and 72 thousand instances of other sexual assault. To put that into context of the kind of timeline presented in the article - 98 rapes and 196 sexual assaults per day.

Say around 5% of people in the UK are ginger. We would expect ginger people to commit around 5 rapes a day and 10 sexual assaults. Now, if I wrote an article listing the 5 ginger rapes a day for a month, I bet I could get some people despising gingers for all being dirty rapists. I wouldn't do that of course because it would be divisive, unhelpful and insulting to the victims to be used like that.

Forget gingers. They get enough aggro. Muslims are 5% of the UK population. This link below suggests that the Muslim prison population is 14.4% of the total prison population. Draw your own conclusions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31794599

[David Vincent]

Thanks for replying without actually addressing the point I raised.

It's helped me to realise that I won't bother wasting my time in future.

Don't get upset Dr Lecter. Organ thought it was a good answer and he's no fool. Tell me where I went wrong.

[Organ Morgan.]

Yeah, my mistake, forgot to add the link to the post. https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9...ny-lawlessness

Click on the red words in the text for the sources used.

[Eric Cartman]

Forget gingers. They get enough aggro. Muslims are 5% of the UK population. This link below suggests that the Muslim prison population is 14.4% of the total prison population. Draw your own conclusions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31794599

Definitely an interesting quirk but unfortunately for you not enough to suggest that all Muslims are barbaric rapists.

[lardy]

Is this a fact verified by research or just what you think?
It is just something I thought up while pouring out my muesli this morning.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'immigration' throughout this.
I think it means moving from one country to another, but, as trublue keeps telling me, I'm not very bright so it could mean something completely different.

It strikes me that, with the UK having an ageing population, being without immigration is probably not the utopia you think it is.
Yes, you are probably right. We'd all be miserable and bored without the immigrants. The thought of an immigrant mugging you when you go out to buy a few cans certainly puts a spring in your step.

You responded to everything in my post except the question I asked you.

[goslow]

Definitely an interesting quirk but unfortunately for you not enough to suggest that all Muslims are barbaric rapists.

Just the pakistaini ones

[CardiffIrish2]

Question: do you think that if we stopped all immigration, money would suddenly become plentiful to fund everything else?

Or do you think that the rich who control the purse strings would simply help themselves to more and find another scapegoat as the reason why we cant afford to properly fund the NHS, housing, welfare, schools etc.

Most intelligent people have sussed out the divide and conquer philosophy of successive governments. It's not rocket science - blame the easiest weakest target (immigrants, disabled, single mothers, benefit scrounges etc.) as a reason for deliberately underfunding vital public services.

Then all you need are gullible people to believe their bullshit and hey presto, we're all arguing and pointing the finger at each other instead of the people who create this situation.

As I say most of us have figured this out, hopefully one day you'll figure it out for yourself.

Exactly, nail on the head.

[Organ Morgan.]

I agree with the good doctor's reasoning but not his conclusion. I'd say most at this forum believe in the false left-right paradigm and nationwide the voter turnout is always way above 50% and the great majority of them always vote for either the red or blue team.

Let's look at Britain since 1979 to the present day. Thatcher and Major led Tory governments until 1997. Labour opposed all their major reforms. From 1997 to 2010 successive Labour governments failed to undo any of them. Ditto for what they introduced, the Tories complained but instead of rolling back the surveillance matrix they have strenghened it. Rather than try to limit inward migration they have widened the gate. For all their criticism of Labour's QE they have added plenty on top.

George Carlin really hit the nail on the head with this: "Forget the politicians. They are irrelevant. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice! You have owners! They own you."

[Dr Lecter]

Don't get upset Dr Lecter. Organ thought it was a good answer and he's no fool. Tell me where I went wrong.

Ok I'll assume you're just a bit slow as opposed to a wum.

The question was 'do you think that if all immigration was stopped there would be adequate funding for public services?

[Eric Cartman]

We have a 1.5 TRILLION DEBT and each year we spend 80 BILLION MORE than we collect in tax.
The less we collect in tax - the less we have to spend on public services. If you have someone that pays no tax - but still uses Public Services and get's assistance / benefits from the State - then the deficit will get larger each year and the ultimate Debt get higher.

At the moment the Govt are desperately trying to reduce the year deficit as well as try and collect more tax. Getting large Corps to pay the relevant tax on transactions that take place in the UK would help, helping to grow businesses by boosting exports would help. Having unfettered migration (helps keeps wages down) - good for businesses - bad for employees.

Ok I'll assume you're just a bit slow as opposed to a wum.

The question was 'do you think that if all immigration was stopped there would be adequate funding for public services?

[Eric Cartman]

I agree with the good doctor's reasoning but not his conclusion. I'd say most at this forum believe in the false left-right paradigm and nationwide the voter turnout is always way above 50% and the great majority of them always vote for either the red or blue team.

Let's look at Britain since 1979 to the present day. Thatcher and Major led Tory governments until 1997. Labour opposed all their major reforms. From 1997 to 2010 successive Labour governments failed to undo any of them. Ditto for what they introduced, the Tories complained but instead of rolling back the surveillance matrix they have strenghened it. Rather than try to limit inward migration they have widened the gate. For all their criticism of Labour's QE they have added plenty on top.

George Carlin really hit the nail on the head with this: "Forget the politicians. They are irrelevant. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice! You have owners! They own you."

You believe in less surveillance and freedom but but strongly believe in man made borders that were an invention of the very people you don't trust.

You think the establishment wants greater migration?

1. We have done less than most countries to resettle refugees.
2. These people 'pulling the strings' have just allowed the British people a vote that will control future EU migration - hint/ they didn't need to.
3. The newspapers are full to the brim with bile blaming migrants for every problem (even blaming people who aren't here yet). Yet for some reason you think you are fighting the man by doing the same?

What a bizarre mix

[Eric Cartman]

Is this a fact verified by research or just what you think?
It is just something I thought up while pouring out my muesli this morning.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'immigration' throughout this.
I think it means moving from one country to another, but, as trublue keeps telling me, I'm not very bright so it could mean something completely different.

It strikes me that, with the UK having an ageing population, being without immigration is probably not the utopia you think it is.
Yes, you are probably right. We'd all be miserable and bored without the immigrants. The thought of an immigrant mugging you when you go out to buy a few cans certainly puts a spring in your step.

At least we know how your mornings are spent now, explains a lot.

[David Vincent]

Ok I'll assume you're just a bit slow as opposed to a wum.

The question was 'do you think that if all immigration was stopped there would be adequate funding for public services?

I don't think anyone wants to stop all immigration. Immigrants from poor countries take more out of public services than they put in. Even if they were net contributors then they will still get old and you will have to get more immigrants in to look after them. It would just go on ad infinitum.

[David Vincent]

You believe in less surveillance and freedom but but strongly believe in man made borders that were an invention of the very people you don't trust.

You think the establishment wants greater migration?

1. We have done less than most countries to resettle refugees.
2. These people 'pulling the strings' have just allowed the British people a vote that will control future EU migration - hint/ they didn't need to.
3. The newspapers are full to the brim with bile blaming migrants for every problem (even blaming people who aren't here yet). Yet for some reason you think you are fighting the man by doing the same?

What a bizarre mix

The Establishment wants free movement of labour. This means cheap easily controlled zero hours labour. This is opposite of what unions have fought for.

[Eric Cartman]

The Establishment wants free movement of labour. This means cheap easily controlled zero hours labour. This is opposite of what unions have fought for.

If they want that then why did they let us have a referendum on leaving the EU? Why do they let newspapers vilify economic migrants for stealing jobs and forcing down wages?

[David Vincent]

If they want that then why did they let us have a referendum on leaving the EU? Why do they let newspapers vilify economic migrants for stealing jobs and forcing down wages?

They let us have a referendum because they never thought for a second that they would lose.

It is not a complete Matrix situation. Sometimes newspapers print the truth and sometimes they tell lies. If they followed the government line every time then we could do what they used to do in communist countries to work out the truth - i.e. assume the opposite of the newspaper story. By mixing fact and fiction they keep us too confused to work out what's going on.

[Dr Lecter]

I don't think anyone wants to stop all immigration. Immigrants from poor countries take more out of public services than they put in. Even if they were net contributors then they will still get old and you will have to get more immigrants in to look after them. It would just go on ad infinitum.

So is that a yes or a no?

[Organ Morgan.]

You believe in less surveillance and freedom but but strongly believe in man made borders that were an invention of the very people you don't trust.

You think the establishment wants greater migration?

1. We have done less than most countries to resettle refugees.
2. These people 'pulling the strings' have just allowed the British people a vote that will control future EU migration - hint/ they didn't need to.
3. The newspapers are full to the brim with bile blaming migrants for every problem (even blaming people who aren't here yet). Yet for some reason you think you are fighting the man by doing the same?

What a bizarre mix

I've stated in other posts what I think is behind the immigration agenda. One facet is to artificially suppress wages. Others include keeping property prices hugely inflated. As other posters have noted, they also provide a very useful distraction/scapegoat for people to focus on as their own standard of living declines. Mostly though their purpose is to further fracture society, cause discord and fear and to weaken the culture of host countries.

Concerning refugees specifically, you seem to be amongst the very few who hasn't noticed that around 90% appear to be young, fit males.

Below is an 84 seconds video featuring remarks made by Russian president Putin yesterday. He expresses incredulity at what's happening in Western Europe with regard to refugees and cites a case in Austria where its Supreme Court acquitted an Iraqi refugee of raping a 10-year-old boy becuase of cultural differences "that he may not have realised the 10-year-old Austrian boy did not want to be sexually abused by him."

[Eric Cartman]

I've stated in other posts what I think is behind the immigration agenda. One facet is to artificially suppress wages. Others include keeping property prices hugely inflated. As other posters have noted, they also provide a very useful distraction/scapegoat for people to focus on as their own standard of living declines. Mostly though their purpose is to further fracture society, cause discord and fear and to weaken the culture of host countries.

Concerning refugees specifically, you seem to be amongst the very few who hasn't noticed that around 90% appear to be young, fit males.

Below is an 84 seconds video featuring remarks made by Russian president Putin yesterday. He expresses incredulity at what's happening in Western Europe with regard to refugees and cites a case in Austria where its Supreme Court acquitted an Iraqi refugee of raping a 10-year-old boy becuase of cultural differences "that he may not have realised the 10-year-old Austrian boy did not want to be sexually abused by him."

He wasn't acquitted, he will remain in custody until his retrial. It is clearly some bonkers quirk of Austrian Law as the Supreme Court Judge even said himself that there was no doubt that the first charge of sexual assault against a minor was watertight. Also this boy was not an Austrian but a Serbian migrant himself, doesn't affect my view on the case but given your previous postings in this thread, it might affect yours.

Thankfully we don't all get our news fix whilst masturbating over videos of Vlad on Youtube.

It is a completely disgusting story and the boy deserves better than being used (poorly) by someone trying to further their own agenda.

[Eric Cartman]

They let us have a referendum because they never thought for a second that they would lose.

It is not a complete Matrix situation. Sometimes newspapers print the truth and sometimes they tell lies. If they followed the government line every time then we could do what they used to do in communist countries to work out the truth - i.e. assume the opposite of the newspaper story. By mixing fact and fiction they keep us too confused to work out what's going on.

So they are clueless but control everything, this is where the 'theory' always falls down.

[Eric Cartman]

Thats not a yes or no question is it ?

Adequate funding when ? - the day after you stopped immigration, a year, 10 years, 50 years , when ?

Define adequate ? - I bet my adequate is different to yours

The answer is simple, you can't fund any public spending without taxpayers. As Organ rightly pointed out in another thread, the state pension is a ponzi scheme in the long run. By 2050, 25% of the people living in the UK will be 65+. Massive inward migration is just about keeping up with our ageing population but the bubble will pop. It will pop quicker if we do what the country is clamouring for and invoke an arbitrary 'net migration' total.

[lardy]

So they are clueless but control everything, this is where the 'theory' always falls down.

Someone on here said the other day that everything post brexit has been planned, down to the gove and Boris fight. Maybe it's more reassuring to think that when the alternative is that the people in charge are not that smart and out for themselves.

[TruBlue]

Someone on here said the other day that everything post brexit has been planned, down to the gove and Boris fight. Maybe it's more reassuring to think that when the alternative is that the people in charge are not that smart and out for themselves.

I didn't read it but it sounds like the sort of nonsense David Vincent would come up with

[David Vincent]

I didn't read it but it sounds like the sort of nonsense David Vincent would come up with

I never said it but I wouldn't be surprise it was right. We don't believe the people in charge are smart. In fact, the opposite is the case. All their plans will be undone by unforeseen consequences. For example, they want a large servant class to be used as cheap and mainly unskilled labour and for that reason they have imported millions of people who will work for peanuts. That was part of the plan. What they didn't realise was that the Muslim immigrants were not going to play ball. They will not obey or work for an infidel elite class. When they are a majority the elite class will have to convert or get out. Some have already seen the writing on the wall and they have converted.