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Thread: Deomocracy at last.

  1. #26

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    It is not as easy to emigrate as you think. If you don't want to go to an EU country then Australia is the first choice for most Britons, but they will not take anyone over 50. They also have many other conditions. Unless you pretend to be an asylum seeker I can't think of many countries who would accept a retired person for example. Despite all the Indians and Chinese we have here it is almost impossible to emigrate there unless you are of Indian or Chinese extraction.
    Like others on this board, I have lived overseas. I personally know white Brits who have lived in both India and China.

    It does help if you're good at your job, I'll grant you that.

  2. #27

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    A SMALL majority, a number of whom have been reported as regretting their decision. (cuts both ways I'm sure)

    Speaking as a remainer, I find the whole situation absolutely crazy.

    Before the vote the government clearly had no plan of how to implement brexit.
    They clearly hadn't considered the potential for this commons challenge and how to manage it.

    The brexit vote was published with local results which could influence the MP of those constituencies i.e MP A was a Brexiter, he believes that this democratic vote should stand, yet his constituents who elected him mainly voted to remain.
    Does he vote:
    a. To uphold the result of the democratic referendum
    b. In accordance with the wishes of his constituency?
    c. With his conscience (I know, I laughed at this bit too)

    What happens when all the Scottish MP's vote to reject the triggering of article 50
    All the Welsh ones vote to press the button
    And all the South East MP's vote remain

    It's an absolute fecking shambles
    Not only that, if Scotland voted to leave the UK by a landslide, Westminster could easily vote it down.

    MP's think Scotland should stay. That is the wonderful parliamentary process.

    There is ZERO democracy.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 03-11-16 at 12:13.

  3. #28

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    I always wondered why you loved dai splott.

    You argued with him, but there was always an underlying love.

    Now I know why.
    I didn't agree with a lot of his ideas on Israel. Whatever you say about Jews it can't be denied they look after their own and in my book that is to be admired.

  4. #29

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Like others on this board, I have lived overseas. I personally know white Brits who have lived in both India and China.

    It does help if you're good at your job, I'll grant you that.
    They were never, and could never be, Indian or Chinese citizens - unless they have changed the rules recently.

  5. #30

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    They were never, and could never be, Indian or Chinese citizens - unless they have changed the rules recently.
    I didn't say they were. I said they lived there.

  6. #31

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    A SMALL majority, a number of whom have been reported as regretting their decision. (cuts both ways I'm sure)

    Speaking as a remainer, I find the whole situation absolutely crazy.

    Before the vote the government clearly had no plan of how to implement brexit.
    They clearly hadn't considered the potential for this commons challenge and how to manage it.

    The brexit vote was published with local results which could influence the MP of those constituencies i.e MP A was a Brexiter, he believes that this democratic vote should stand, yet his constituents who elected him mainly voted to remain.
    Does he vote:
    a. To uphold the result of the democratic referendum
    b. In accordance with the wishes of his constituency?
    c. With his conscience (I know, I laughed at this bit too)

    What happens when all the Scottish MP's vote to reject the triggering of article 50
    All the Welsh ones vote to press the button
    And all the South East MP's vote remain

    It's an absolute fecking shambles
    There was no plan because it was not intended to happen. But the people have spoken and there will be trouble we do not get our independence.

  7. #32

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I didn't say they were. I said they lived there.
    I know, but you phrased it to make it look like you were contradicting my point.

  8. #33

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    I didn't agree with a lot of his ideas on Israel. Whatever you say about Jews it can't be denied they look after their own and in my book that is to be admired.
    Yep, that's true.

    There are countless ludicrously rich Arabs it could be said as well.

    And their tentacles reach every corner of the world now.

  9. #34

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    There was no plan because it was not intended to happen. But the people have spoken and there will be trouble we do not get our independence.
    Trouble eh?

    In what way?

    People posting stuff on twitter?

    People mumbling something under their breath?

    People reading their newspapers while shaking their heads?

    Perhaps we can rise up and protest - obviously with the prior approval and designated route agreed by the police of course.

    Beware the wrath of the people!!!!!!!

    (Unless it cold or there's something good on telly)

  10. #35

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    A Labour MP just said they will not try to delay the decision of the exit.

    So this may be a load of old Whoooo Ha.

  11. #36

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    A vote in parliament gave the power, emphasis on POWER, to the people.

    MP's should act on the will of the people. In this case. Not all.

    Jacob Rees Mogg said parliament should never act on the opinion of the people alone. But by voting on it, it became more than just an opinion. They should act to some degree on the wishes of their constituents.

    This is parliamentary democracy, I'll accept. But I think the country/countries now know it is a farce. There is no democracy. MP's hold absolute power.

    It may be the correct process. But this is the day millions lost complete confidence in the system.
    They COULD have made the referendum legally binding, like the Scottish Indy ref. But they didn't, it was only advisory.
    As such they HAVE to get the agreement of parliament in order to make this change.

  12. #37

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    They COULD have made the referendum legally binding, like the Scottish Indy ref. But they didn't, it was only advisory.
    As such they HAVE to get the agreement of parliament in order to make this change.
    I didn't the Scottish one was legally binding if I am honest.

  13. #38

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    I know, but you phrased it to make it look like you were contradicting my point.
    Eh? You were talking about emigrating, which means living in a different country. It doesn't mean becoming a citizen. You used the word 'emigrate' twice.

    Great effort on changing the subject, though. And for future info, no one cares if someone is Jewish or not (except Organ Morgan, funnily enough).

  14. #39
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    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    Parliament voted to put the vote to the people.

    It was an act of parliament.

    It is like debating the results of a general election.
    No it isnt. Saying it twice in one thread does not make it so either.

    If a Gov't gets voted in by the people on the back of bullsh1t and lies, then they can be voted out within 5 years, or even sooner if push really did come to shove.
    Brexit , on the other hand, apparently means Brexit.

    It is pretty clear that even the tiny majority who voted for brexit had no more clue than those that voted against it.
    Alarmingly a number now seem to have changed thier mind or 'didnt really mean it'.

    Dont hear many 'Remainers' saying that do we...

    It is also a matter of fact that the a huge percentage of Brexiters were old Diddybobs whose primary wish was to go to the grave waving an Union jack and singing Rule Britannia, before they croak and leave us to sort out the ramifications.

    Lastly, 'Brexit' was a protest vote from many disenfranchised areas of our country.

    Now personally - I am still undecided whether brexit is going to be a good thing or not - mark me as a neutral, but if the above are the sort of things that people want to swagger about behind and use phrases like 'you lost - get over it' like some kind of game without consequence, or make completely incorrect analogies then Jeez ...

    But so be it, and Democracy must be respected.

    It seems increasingly clear that nobody in Gov't or Whitehall looked into the actual machinery of brexit.
    Because they didn't expect it to actually happen in a million years!
    Last edited by Vimana.; 03-11-16 at 12:56.

  15. #40

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Democracy???

    A case brought forward by a fund manager? You mean the financial markets get their own way over democracy.

    A case of got enough money and you can get government to do what you want.
    Last edited by Barry Dragon; 03-11-16 at 13:09.

  16. #41

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Lecter View Post
    Trouble eh?

    In what way?

    People posting stuff on twitter?

    People mumbling something under their breath?

    People reading their newspapers while shaking their heads?

    Perhaps we can rise up and protest - obviously with the prior approval and designated route agreed by the police of course.

    Beware the wrath of the people!!!!!!!

    (Unless it cold or there's something good on telly)
    Well, shit just got real for this fella.. God bless the Daily Mail readership.

    CwVXlvMWEAA5YZv.jpg

  17. #42

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    Well, shit just got real for this fella.. God bless the Daily Mail readership.

    CwVXlvMWEAA5YZv.jpg

    It's probably Splott Dai.

  18. #43

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Dragon View Post
    Democracy???

    A case brought forward by a fund manager? You mean the financial markets get their own way over democracy.

    A case of got enough money and you can get government to do what you want.
    It's a case of the elected UK parliament getting to do what they're there for. Which is what you voted for.

  19. #44

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    No it isnt. Saying it twice in one thread does not make it so either.

    If a Gov't gets voted in by the people on the back of bullsh1t and lies, then they can be voted out within 5 years, or even sooner if push really did come to shove.
    Brexit , on the other hand, apparently means Brexit.

    It is pretty clear that even the tiny majority who voted for brexit had no more clue than those that voted against it.
    Alarmingly a number now seem to have changed thier mind or 'didnt really mean it'.

    Dont hear many 'Remainers' saying that do we...

    It is also a matter of fact that the a huge percentage of Brexiters were old Diddybobs whose primary wish was to go to the grave waving an Union jack and singing Rule Britannia, before they croak and leave us to sort out the ramifications.

    Lastly, 'Brexit' was a protest vote from many disenfranchised areas of our country.

    Now personally - I am still undecided whether brexit is going to be a good thing or not - mark me as a neutral, but if the above are the sort of things that people want to swagger about behind and use phrases like 'you lost - get over it' like some kind of game without consequence, or make completely incorrect analogies then Jeez ...

    But so be it, and Democracy must be respected.

    It seems increasingly clear that nobody in Gov't or Whitehall looked into the actual machinery of brexit.
    Because they didn't expect it to actually happen in a million years!
    QUOTE from you "It is pretty clear that even the tiny majority who voted for brexit" the majority voted for Brexit idiot

  20. #45

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    QUOTE from you "It is pretty clear that even the tiny majority who voted for brexit" the majority voted for Brexit idiot


    You can have a big majority and a small majority. 51.9-48.1 is small in anyone's book.

  21. #46

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    Not only that, if Scotland voted to leave the UK by a landslide, Westminster could easily vote it down.

    MP's think Scotland should stay. That is the wonderful parliamentary process.

    There is ZERO democracy.
    That's different. Thats the MPs of a different country stopping you leaving.
    That's more comparable with the UK voting to leave and the EU voting it down. They haven't done that. In fact, they've asked us to hurry it up

  22. #47

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    15,000,000 voted to leave
    13,000,000 voted to stay

    Total population (of voting age) of the UK about 45,000,000

    Percentage of people voting for Brexit as a percentage of the total number of people eligible to vote = roughly 30%

    Factor in those too young to vote (who this vote would affect the most) and it really isn't that big a majority is it?

  23. #48

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by itkman View Post
    It'll be interesting to hear what the knuckle daggers think of our elected parliament debating and eventually making a decision that will affect the country, whichever way they choose.
    My family, all five of whom voted to leave, includes 3 first class honours degrees, a Cambridge university degree a masters and a doctorate. Not quite up to your C&G Spanner Throwing level 3 but we get by.

  24. #49

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    15,000,000 voted to leave
    13,000,000 voted to stay

    Total population (of voting age) of the UK about 45,000,000

    Percentage of people voting for Brexit as a percentage of the total number of people eligible to vote = roughly 30%

    Factor in those too young to vote (who this vote would affect the most) and it really isn't that big a majority is it?
    Do you mean the 30%+ of 18-24 year olds who didn't bother to vote? Why we should factor them in is beyond me.

  25. #50

    Re: Deomocracy at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost View Post
    Do you mean the 30%+ of 18-24 year olds who didn't bother to vote? Why we should factor them in is beyond me.
    I'm not suggesting that we count votes of people who didn't vote. All I'm suggesting is that Brexit won because 30% of the voting population wanted it whilst 70% of the country either didn't want it or couldn't be arsed either way.

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