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Thread: Islam

  1. #1

    Islam

    I found this odd in something I'm reading.

    Mohammed in 610 had those revelations in the cave in arabia. The angel Gabriel told him he was the chosen one and all that jazz.

    At the time in Mecca the leaders were polytheistic, they believed in multiple gods.

    When the leaders of mecca, the pagans, realised Mohammed was preaching doom and death to the non believers, they wanted him gone.

    Mohammed and his small group of followers flee to medina. After attacking tribes and merchant camel trains, gaining more wealth, they gained more followers. Divine protection they played it off as.

    In 624 the leaders of Mecca realised they were getting too big so decided to negotiate a truce.

    My question is that Mohammed was the messenger, yet up until 625, Muslims were instructed to pray towards Jerusalem, not Mecca??.

    Coincidentally, the centre of Islam moved from Jerusalem to Mecca in 628, after the negotiations.

    Not only that, The Kaaba in Mecca, the "house of allah" is said to be Islam's most holy point. This was there prior to Mohammed. It was pagan.

    After this the pagan leaders of Mecca pledged allegiance to Islam. Who'd have thunk it?.

    It doesn't so much come across as being some divine intervention, more a power grab from mohammed to gain followers.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 28-11-16 at 22:06.

  2. #2

    Re: Islam

    Undoubtedly, there are similar things you could say about the growth of Christianity too

  3. #3

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Undoubtedly, there are similar things you could say about the growth of Christianity too
    Yep.

    I don't understand how people can follow them with such certainty.

    There could well be something more after death. Believe in a higher being, carry on.

    But all the petty squabbling about the rest of it is baseless.

    They're lucky technology was so poor at the time. If only we could go back by written information or something, it'd be proven as mainly lies and nipped in the bud. Then maybe people would get some perceptive - That they haven't a clue what they're believing in. And they're as dumb as the next person. So scared of death they'll believe anything.

  4. #4

    Re: Islam

    Let's be honest: if you strongly indoctrinate a very young child with religion you have a pretty good chance of keeping him or her for life, especially if you don't expose them to scientific theory and an evidence-based way of thinking.

  5. #5

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Let's be honest: if you strongly indoctrinate a very young child with religion you have a pretty good chance of keeping him or her for life, especially if you don't expose them to scientific theory and an evidence-based way of thinking.
    There are probably strong evolutionary reasons as to why as children we Believe what our parents tell us, and also We tend to maintain old customs that we don't necessarily understand.

    This though leaves us vulnerable to being controlled and over the years religions have mostly been about wielding power over the masses.

  6. #6

    Re: Islam

    You just have to understand that humans collaborate through shared ideas, not reality. You can get people to do anything you want if you can make them believe in your story.

  7. #7
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    Re: Islam

    Morehamhead was a robber baron (and child abuser) who came up with a cracking idea to do what he wanted,his successors then had to continue with the fairytales to keep the faithful murdering and robbing in the name of god.

  8. #8

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    I found this odd in something I'm reading.

    Mohammed in 610 had those revelations in the cave in arabia. The angel Gabriel told him he was the chosen one and all that jazz.

    At the time in Mecca the leaders were polytheistic, they believed in multiple gods.

    When the leaders of mecca, the pagans, realised Mohammed was preaching doom and death to the non believers, they wanted him gone.

    Mohammed and his small group of followers flee to medina. After attacking tribes and merchant camel trains, gaining more wealth, they gained more followers. Divine protection they played it off as.

    In 624 the leaders of Mecca realised they were getting too big so decided to negotiate a truce.

    My question is that Mohammed was the messenger, yet up until 625, Muslims were instructed to pray towards Jerusalem, not Mecca??.

    Coincidentally, the centre of Islam moved from Jerusalem to Mecca in 628, after the negotiations.

    Not only that, The Kaaba in Mecca, the "house of allah" is said to be Islam's most holy point. This was there prior to Mohammed. It was pagan.

    After this the pagan leaders of Mecca pledged allegiance to Islam. Who'd have thunk it?.

    It doesn't so much come across as being some divine intervention, more a power grab from mohammed to gain followers.
    So where does the mosque in Grangetown fit into all this

  9. #9

    Re: Islam

    Can anyone work out what the point of this thread is?

  10. #10

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Let's be honest: if you strongly indoctrinate a very young child with religion you have a pretty good chance of keeping him or her for life, especially if you don't expose them to scientific theory and an evidence-based way of thinking.
    Yep.

    If they didn't do that the followers would absolutely plummet.

    When I was in school I'd put Christian down on that information sheet they sent around. The census thing.

    I have never been a christian but I assumed I was one. As did everyone.

    When they release the figures of how many christians there are in the UK, how many are in the same boat?.

  11. #11

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Can anyone work out what the point of this thread is?
    It really isn't hard.

    Not you, but the religious get awfully defensive when you begin to question the formation of their religion.

    If they say and think that I will burn in hell for eternity for sinning, I can question their religion.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 30-11-16 at 09:09.

  12. #12

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    It never ceases to amaze why we assign intelligence to people from 2000 years ago (Jesus, Mohammad, Moses and the rest of the Nutty gang).

    2000 - years ago if you told people you heard voices in your head - they thought you were talking to 'God' or were related to him etc .

    Nowadays anyone who says they here voices in their head is given treatment for mental health issues.

    The should have been done then and we could have avoided all this rubbish.

    Consummating a marriage to a 9 year old girl - Mohammad isnt denounced for being a Pedophile he is exonerated and we are being told that because she was menstruating it was ok for the 59 year old Prohpher to be having sex with his 9 year old wife.

    I wonder if any other Muslims on here would allow their daughter to do the same.

    It is ALL a load of w ank
    Ye, back in those days you can understand why people needed faith. Poor living standards, no mass media. No idea about the size of the planet. What was in the sky. Pretty clueless generations that needed something to guide them.

    The Egyptians praying to the sun god etc.

  13. #13

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    It never ceases to amaze why we assign intelligence to people from 2000 years ago (Jesus, Mohammad, Moses and the rest of the Nutty gang).

    2000 - years ago if you told people you heard voices in your head - they thought you were talking to 'God' or were related to him etc .

    Nowadays anyone who says they here voices in their head is given treatment for mental health issues.

    The should have been done then and we could have avoided all this rubbish.

    Consummating a marriage to a 9 year old girl - Mohammad isnt denounced for being a Pedophile he is exonerated and we are being told that because she was menstruating it was ok for the 59 year old Prohpher to be having sex with his 9 year old wife.

    I wonder if any other Muslims on here would allow their daughter to do the same.

    It is ALL a load of w ank
    I can see why some people get fixated on the Mohammed paedo thing. Obviously by today's standards, in much of the world it is horrific.

    I don't think it tells you anything specifically about Islam or Mohammed though, more about the times it was in. I'm sure if you look back hard enough at European kings and queens you would find plenty of other examples, especially where political marriages are involved. But that doesn't say anything about people in Western society any more than this examsays anything about modern Muslims.

    Even our current queen started

  14. #14

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I can see why some people get fixated on the Mohammed paedo thing. Obviously by today's standards, in much of the world it is horrific.

    I don't think it tells you anything specifically about Islam or Mohammed though, more about the times it was in. I'm sure if you look back hard enough at European kings and queens you would find plenty of other examples, especially where political marriages are involved. But that doesn't say anything about people in Western society any more than this examsays anything about modern Muslims.

    Even our current queen started
    The spartans used to practise sodomy to keep the girls "clean" for when they marry. At the age of about 12-14.

    Is one example.

  15. #15
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    Re: Islam

    nearly all religions comprise of a bunch of rules to keep (impossible-to-rule-otherwise) ancient societies ruled, by fear of some eye, or eyes in the sky.
    There is a handful of terrible things that will happen to you if you don't comply (usually in some kind of afterlife) and some lovely things if you do behave. Again in some kind of unprovable afterlife.

    A bunch of stories accompany all this explaining who the good guys and bad guys are, and to make it more believable for ancient minds.

    Not so believable for contemporary minds. .. you would think.

    Add in a bunch of rituals and 'sacred' building and a few people helping to run it, and badda bing.

    Thousands of years later we are still killing each other all over the planet because of these outdated pantomimes.

    We should be using our 21st century thinking, reasoning and technology to look forward - as one and help make our planet better
    Instead we are gazing backward , in discord and disunited while the planet dies.

    Thank you religion and well done religious zealots...

    How the hell do we rein this in now for the sakes of future generations?
    Last edited by Vimana.; 30-11-16 at 10:19.

  16. #16

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    The spartans used to practise sodomy to keep the girls "clean" for when they marry. At the age of about 12-14.

    Is one example.
    I should probably finish the sentence I started. I'm sute I read that Elizabeth Windsor was 13 when she started exchanging letters with Phillip who was 18 at the time.

    Nowadays it would probably be classed as grooming.

  17. #17

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    It really isn't hard.

    Not you, but the religious get awfully defensive when you begin to question the formation of their religion.

    If they say and think that I will burn in hell for eternity for sinning, I can question their religion.
    Questioning it won't get you anywhere though. Obviously you can pick holes in any religious text but the believers will always have an excuse.

  18. #18

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Questioning it won't get you anywhere though. Obviously you can pick holes in any religious text but the believers will always have an excuse.
    Ye that's what I mean.

    If only we could go back.

    It won't get you anywhere no. But there are so many people than impose their religion on others, they put it out their to question.

    They speak with such certainty. Saying others are living their lives the "wrong" way. Yet they can't even handle you questioning their own beliefs.

  19. #19

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    nearly all religions comprise of a bunch of rules to keep (impossible-to-rule-otherwise) ancient societies ruled, by fear of some eye, or eyes in the sky.
    There is a handful of terrible things that will happen to you if you don't comply (usually in some kind of afterlife) and some lovely things if you do behave. Again in some kind of unprovable afterlife.

    A bunch of stories accompany all this explaining who the good guys and bad guys are, and to make it more believable for ancient minds.

    Not so believable for contemporary minds. .. you would think.

    Add in a bunch of rituals and 'sacred' building and a few people helping to run it, and badda bing.

    Thousands of years later we are still killing each other all over the planet because of these outdated pantomimes.

    We should be using our 21st century thinking, reasoning and technology to look forward - as one and help make our planet better
    Instead we are gazing backward , in discord and disunited while the planet dies.

    Thank you religion and well done religious zealots...

    How the hell do we rein this in now for the sakes of future generations?
    I like your thinking, but there are plenty of other fairy tales in existence to keep the people in check

  20. #20

    Re: Islam

    If one person says that he has seen a little green man in the woods he's a lunatic. However, if he can indoctrinate all those around that it's true it becomes a religion.

  21. #21

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    If one person says that he has seen a little green man in the woods he's a lunatic. However, if he can indoctrinate all those around that it's true it becomes a religion.
    Fairy tales aren't always about religion.

  22. #22

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Fairy tales aren't always about religion.
    you're the expert

  23. #23

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    you're the expert
    You should know

  24. #24

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Fairy tales aren't always about religion.
    You don't say :rolleyes:

  25. #25

    Re: Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    you're the expert

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