What is political correctness?

[jon1959]

Generalising to form an argument isn't much of an argument really is it?.

I don't know what your point is. Who are the victims?.

The EDL speaks for 0.000001% of the population.

My point is that 'anti fascists' are not the new fascists. Fascists are.

My other point is that victims of discrimination and hate are being gagged and deterred from speaking out with this right-wing bullshit 'newspeak'.

The EDL may speak for whatever % of the population that you claim - but it is a significant viewpoint on ****, and that was an example of where I have regularly heard this trite little formulation. It was an example and an illustration.

I really have no idea what you are trying to say about 'generalisation'. Don't all arguments and analyses draw general conclusions from generalised data and illustrate the point by reference to specific examples? If you think the use of language I have described is not Orwellian and sinister, then I would like to hear your take. From my point of view it is like blaming the poor for poverty, or branding anti Zionists as anti-semites. Victim blaming, deflecting, effective and clever.

[Wales-Bales]

You've never read the Communist Manifesto in your fecking life.

It's not really my thing, I am a centrist, but I seem to recall that the proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

[Wales-Bales]

"Cultural Marxism" is another comedy term often trotted out by the lunatic fringe of the political right. I just don't get their weird preoccupation with the Frankfurt School.

There is a good debate to be had about how language is used as social control but it isn't something that is specific to the left or to liberals. Look at how the right used the word "austerity" to con people into thinking it was the duty of those at the bottom of society to bear the brunt of economic failure. And how the concept was reinforced by the right-wing media with articles, for instance, on 'austerity fashion ideas' and 'austerity baking'. Religion has been using words like 'good' and 'evil' for centuries as a way of modifying behaviour and exerting social control - it's nothing new.

Cultural Marxism is more than language.

[Wales-Bales]

That's an interesting interpretation of communism you've got there WB. You'll have to remind us where in Marx he calls for one world govt

The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.

The working men have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got. Since the proletariat must first of all acquire political supremacy, must rise to be the leading class of the nation, must constitute itself the nation, it is so far, itself national, though not in the bourgeois sense of the word.

National differences and antagonism between peoples are daily more and more vanishing, owing to the development of the bourgeoisie, to freedom of commerce, to the world market, to uniformity in the mode of production and in the conditions of life corresponding thereto.

The supremacy of the proletariat will cause them to vanish still faster. United action, of the leading civilised countries at least, is one of the first conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat.

In proportion as the exploitation of one individual by another will also be put an end to, the exploitation of one nation by another will also be put an end to. In proportion as the antagonism between classes within the nation vanishes, the hostility of one nation to another will come to an end.

[Mrs Steve R]

I thought that having read about political correctness from one viewpoint, I should do so from another and so read the piece in the link you posted.

I read the first third or so of it and thought it was just the sort on agenda driven rant I expected it to be, but then the writer started to make arguments that was backed up by research and I began to find myself agreeing with some of what was being said.

I cannot believe anyone would have too many arguments with the writer when they say "If you are concerned about hurting people’s feelings unnecessarily, you can always find ways to express something in the right way. In those kind of situations, what really matters is the way you say words, not what you say." - that's what I have always tried to do.

However, I've done that not because I was afraid of upsetting these bastions of political correctness that the writer would have us believe are looking over our shoulders at everything we say, type or write, but because it's the right and proper thing to do.

Gluey has it that this liberal elite is some left of centre mafia (to use his word) ranging from Obama and the Clintons through to those who we were supposed to have fought the cold war against. I just don't see that I'm afraid and find it amusing that it is this coalition of what seems to be anyone he doesn't like who is responsible for "political correctness" - presumably those in the Tory party who campaigned on the remain side were in with these communists as well?

Yes, I accept that there are examples around (some of which appear in the article) where the term "political correctness gone mad" can be applied and, yes, I mentioned before on here that the labeling of people who voted to leave the EU as racist was something that was applied far too freely (occasionally by myself), but, sorry, I just don't see political correctness as being the sort of threat it's made out to be in that article.

No, it seems to me that it's just as likely to be a shield used by the likes of Donald Trump to hide behind as he puts any challenging of untruths he has told (e.g. remarks about the character of Mexicans and his claim about millions of illegal votes) down to "political correctness", so we see the term being used by those who say that they are fighting against it as a way in which they try to stifle debate and dissent - whose trying to "reduce the scope of free thought" there?

I agree that it's the right and proper thing to do, I don't need political correctness to tell me how to treat people either but I will admit that it has stopped me talking about certain things through fear of being taken the wrong way, Brexit is a fine example like you said, I can't count how many replies to people I deleted over that time, not because I thought they sounded bad or racist in any way but because I thought ahead at how people could twist my words, I went to in to my reasons for wanting to leave over and over and people still implied that I was a racist, I'm sure I'm not the first person to not bother saying something just because it's easier that way so it does modify behaviour in that sense.

Trump and Farage are there to create a bigger divide imo, people seem to have adopted the view that if you don't hate them you must agree with them, this is where it becomes damaging, I don't hate anyone and I refuse to hate people and be pushed towards a side that I'm not even on just because other people think I should, it's getting that way for more and more topics, it's a constant source of divide and conflict.

The so called liberal elite are quite possibly wolves in sheep's clothing. They have certainly done a good job of destroying a lot of things. But you could also say that the main players in two party politics follow the same agendas.

Like their logo.

What is the significance of the Fabian Society for this discussion on 'political correctness' and the evil 'liberal elite' that are out to destroy the ancient British pleasures of watching the Black And White Minstrels and queer bashing?

There is nothing me and Gluey like better than getting together to do a bit of queer bashing while we watch the Black And White Minstrels box set Come on Jon, when have I ever said that's acceptable? this is what I'm talking about, twisting it around to suggest anyone who does not go along with the pc brigade must be racist, homophobic or whatever, I'm not any of those things, I just mind my own business when it comes to what other people say, people need to be able to express what they really think or there is a danger of those opinions going underground and festering imo.

I went out with an Asian lad who moved down from Birmingham when I was at school, I used to have to meet him on the corner of his street, he was not allowed to go out with me because I'm White (just thought I'd throw that in there as I find it amusing when people say I'm a racist)

[Organ Morgan.]

I've always defined political correctness as being wary/scared/terrified of expressing an opinion publicly that might upset/offend someone/anyone. It's working; vast numbers have become docile lambs as this country sinks further down the crapper economically, financially, socially, morally and spiritually.

About the only people it's safe to criticise nowadays are benefit claimants. But as the huge majority of British citizens are benefit claimants, they tend to always point their fingers at others and never themselves 'cos they and their family members always deserve every penny of what they take from the cookie jar.

[jon1959]

There is nothing me and Gluey like better than getting together to do a bit of queer bashing while we watch the Black And White Minstrels box set Come on Jon, when have I ever said that's acceptable? this is what I'm talking about, twisting it around to suggest anyone who does not go along with the pc brigade must be racist, homophobic or whatever, I'm not any of those things, I just mind my own business when it comes to what other people say, people need to be able to express what they really think or there is a danger of those opinions going underground and festering imo.

I went out with an Asian lad who moved down from Birmingham when I was at school, I used to have to meet him on the corner of his street, he was not allowed to go out with me because I'm White (just thought I'd throw that in there as I find it amusing when people say I'm a racist)

Hi Mrs Steve R. My comment wasn't intended to be an attack on you or Gluey or to imply that you tin-hat Brexiteers are racist. It was though a comment on many in this country and the USA who use 'political correctness' as a stick to beat their political opponents and as a tool to shut down debate, discussion or dissent. To go back to Paul's original comment under the Guardian article - there are a lot of people (millions who supported Trump) who are racist, sexist, homophobic and white supremacist, and use (in my opinion) the phantom of a liberal elite that is out to destroy their traditional views and culture to legitemise the proud use of racist, sexist, homophobic.... etc language.... and at the same time gag and intimidate the people who are on the wrong end of those attitudes and behaviours. Trump has made alt-right white supremacists part of the mainstream. I was unhappy enough when they were all wrapped in a flag and pounding a bible. Now that flag is Confederate and the dam has burst for extreme right wing views and actions that were seen as unacceptable for a generation - even by NRA-supporting, evangelical Christian Republicans.

I do think you're out of your tree at times, but if anything I say seems to imply you are racist that is not the intention and due to sloppy wording. You're one of my favourite posters.

[Mrs Steve R]

Hi Mrs Steve R. My comment wasn't intended to be an attack on you or Gluey or to imply that you tin-hat Brexiteers are racist. It was though a comment on many in this country and the USA who use 'political correctness' as a stick to beat their political opponents and as a tool to shut down debate, discussion or dissent. To go back to Paul's original comment under the Guardian article - there are a lot of people (millions who supported Trump) who are racist, sexist, homophobic and white supremacist, and use (in my opinion) the phantom of a liberal elite that is out to destroy their traditional views and culture to legitemise the proud use of racist, sexist, homophobic.... etc language.... and at the same time gag and intimidate the people who are on the wrong end of those attitudes and behaviours. Trump has made alt-right white supremacists part of the mainstream. I was unhappy enough when they were all wrapped in a flag and pounding a bible. Now that flag is Confederate and the dam has burst for extreme right wing views and actions that were seen as unacceptable for a generation - even by NRA-supporting, evangelical Christian Republicans.

I do think you're out of your tree at times, but if anything I say seems to imply you are racist that is not the intention and due to sloppy wording. You're one of my favourite posters.

No I know you weren't Jon, I was partly joking, but when you mention the ancient British pleasures of watching the Black And White Minstrels and queer bashing it sort of suggests that people who don't play along with all this nonsense want things to stay that way, maybe I'm a bit paranoid about it now, people can call me a nutter all day every day, I don't mind that because in my eyes that's sort of debatable me being racist is not because I know I'm not, I dunno, it just really bugs me (if you hadn't noticed lol)

I agree that people use it as a stick, I see that from all sides, the sad thing is all I see these days are sticks..

[the other bob wilson]

I suggested above to do some research the Fabian Society and their long term goals. You could also try the Council on Foreign Relations. Also I never mentioned "those who we were supposed to have fought the cold war against" as being part of this group, I included those in charge of the EU.

You said the architects of political correctness were "not really liberal they are commies" therefore, naturally enough I feel, I presumed that the genuine article were included as well as ones playing at being a "liberal elite".

[the other bob wilson]

As someone who is now sixty, I'm in a demographic that is most likely to reflect the typical views of someone who voted leave, while it's also widely said that you move more to the right politically as you get older - I must be the exception that proves the rule .

I've heard Jeremy Corbyn described as a natural dissenter and I think that is probably a description that could be applied to me. I've spent the last forty five years or so hoping to see the overthrow of a despised ruling elite by a population that has decided enough is enough and now, in the autumn of my life, it may, finally, be happening.

The revolution might be coming and, representing the common man and woman that this hated elite have manipulated and exploited are those champions of the underdog, Mr Donald Trump, Mr Boris Johnson, Mr Rupert Murdoch, those two related slugs that own the Daily Mail and far right, ultra nationalistic, political parties in Europe which target some of humanity's baser instincts. Not sure things were really supposed to work out this way, but, then, that's just me being politically correct again I suppose.

[Wales-Bales]

You said the architects of political correctness were "not really liberal they are commies" therefore, naturally enough I feel, I presumed that the genuine article were included as well as ones playing at being a "liberal elite".

A complex set of groupings cannot be fully explained in a few paragraghts. Besides the Fabians were formed in 1884, so they are not an exact carbon copy of Lenin's mob. It would also be incorrect to give the Wikileaks answer as Jon1959 did, that they are a fringe group of 7,000 Labour supporters (although they did come up with New Labour, and they are part of the plot to remove Corbyn). With a motto such as A Wolf In Sheep's Cothing you would expect them to branch out into other areas, and that is where you will find the big players with globalist ideologies coming into it.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

As someone who is now sixty, I'm in a demographic that is most likely to reflect the typical views of someone who voted leave, while it's also widely said that you move more to the right politically as you get older - I must be the exception that proves the rule .

I've heard Jeremy Corbyn described as a natural dissenter and I think that is probably a description that could be applied to me. I've spent the last forty five years or so hoping to see the overthrow of a despised ruling elite by a population that has decided enough is enough and now, in the autumn of my life, it may, finally, be happening.

The revolution might be coming and, representing the common man and woman that this hated elite have manipulated and exploited are those champions of the underdog, Mr Donald Trump, Mr Boris Johnson, Mr Rupert Murdoch, those two related slugs that own the Daily Mail and far right, ultra nationalistic, political parties in Europe which target some of humanity's baser instincts. Not sure things were really supposed to work out this way, but, then, that's just me being politically correct again I suppose.

A few political rants on Facebook and then everyone is back to posting pictures of kittens.

[Gabalphaville]

The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.

The working men have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got. Since the proletariat must first of all acquire political supremacy, must rise to be the leading class of the nation, must constitute itself the nation, it is so far, itself national, though not in the bourgeois sense of the word.

National differences and antagonism between peoples are daily more and more vanishing, owing to the development of the bourgeoisie, to freedom of commerce, to the world market, to uniformity in the mode of production and in the conditions of life corresponding thereto.

The supremacy of the proletariat will cause them to vanish still faster. United action, of the leading civilised countries at least, is one of the first conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat.

In proportion as the exploitation of one individual by another will also be put an end to, the exploitation of one nation by another will also be put an end to. In proportion as the antagonism between classes within the nation vanishes, the hostility of one nation to another will come to an end.

He's not calling for one world government WB, he's advocating NO government and, ultimately, a classless society. To achieve this the proletariat had to overcome the bourgeoisie in a class struggle. For Marx the proletariat were not an elite as they formed an overwhelming majority of the population. Marx was against the exploitation of the many by the few - an inherently anti-elitist view.

Granted Marx had no time for nationhood or nationalism but his emancipation of the workers is a far cry from contemporary "liberal elites" as perceived by your good self: "liberal elites are Obama/Clinton/Fabians/EU mafia, etc, but they are not really liberal they are commies. Their vision is for a one world government run for the bendfit of the elites and the corporations/banks." That really doesn't sound like Communism to me.

And, like other posters, I'm somewhat baffled by your paranoia about Fabians.

[Wales-Bales]

He's not calling for one world government WB, he's advocating NO government and, ultimately, a classless society. To achieve this the proletariat had to overcome the bourgeoisie in a class struggle. For Marx the proletariat were not an elite as they formed an overwhelming majority of the population. Marx was against the exploitation of the many by the few - an inherently anti-elitist view.

Granted Marx had no time for nationhood or nationalism but his emancipation of the workers is a far cry from contemporary "liberal elites" as perceived by your good self: "liberal elites are Obama/Clinton/Fabians/EU mafia, etc, but they are not really liberal they are commies. Their vision is for a one world government run for the bendfit of the elites and the corporations/banks." That really doesn't sound like Communism to me.

And, like other posters, I'm somewhat baffled by your paranoia about Fabians.

Stalin and Castro harldly lived the same kind of lives as the proletariat. A one world government is essentially no democratic goverment, as there will be a group in power who cannot be challenged. The EU is run by the Eurogroup, which is accountable to nobody. Eventually all citizens will be limited in what they can do by a socialist structure that controls labour and the means of production. Proposed trade deals such as TTIP already put the interests of corporations above those of government and citizens.

Regarding the Fabians they are the starting point for the globalist ideology that spawned various other organisations. For example Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and a future member of the CFR, and Cecil Rhodes was a Fabian and a founding member of the Round Table (Chatham House), so Fabianism is a general term not necessarily restricted to the 7,000 members of the actual Fabian Society.

[Heathblue]

"The avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against."

[Gabalphaville]

Stalin and Castro harldly lived the same kind of lives as the proletariat. A one world government is essentially no democratic goverment, as there will be a group in power who cannot be challenged. The EU is run by the Eurogroup, which is accountable to nobody. Eventually all citizens will be limited in what they can do by a socialist structure that controls labour and the means of production. Proposed trade deals such as TTIP already put the interests of corporations above those of government and citizens.

Marx would have been horrified by Stalin. Stalin is not a good example of an advocate of one world government either as he introduced the concept of ‘Socialism in One Country’ which became state policy in the Soviet Union. He didn’t think that Communism could go global – at least, not at that point in its history. It was his reaction against Lenin’s idea of Permanent Revolution. Lenin is better suited to your argument but he invented lots of stuff and just added it to Marx. I don’t know enough about Fidel to comment on his regime. I'm no fan of any of those big Euro quangos but they aren't communistic at all. Elite does not equal communism, at least, not as envisaged by Marx.

[Wales-Bales]

Marx would have been horrified by Stalin. Stalin is not a good example of an advocate of one world government either as he introduced the concept of ‘Socialism in One Country’ which became state policy in the Soviet Union. He didn’t think that Communism could go global – at least, not at that point in its history. It was his reaction against Lenin’s idea of Permanent Revolution. Lenin is better suited to your argument but he invented lots of stuff and just added it to Marx. I don’t know enough about Fidel to comment on his regime. I'm no fan of any of those big Euro quangos but they aren't communistic at all. Elite does not equal communism, at least, not as envisaged by Marx.

I think everybody took the bits from Marx that they liked, and then they added their own stuff on top of it. I would imagine some of the socialist control structures are quite appealing, even to the owners of the means of production. If you are interested in this kind of stuff there are plenty of Fabian offshoot's working away behind the scenes. What I have mentioned are not actually my views, they are just a collection of opinions I have come across regarding the roles of these unelected parallel organisations.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

PC is used for its own ends , and when it suits , I feel its way over the top, we will end with a society with no character or humour.

Reported.

[Heathblue]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...-lady-12322491


Political Correctness

[Wales-Bales]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...-lady-12322491


Political Correctness

It's just another rule, there will be thousands more of these new rules coming from all directions. People like to justify their job positions by inventing new rules as a form of validation.

[Mrs Steve R]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...-lady-12322491


Political Correctness

Christ can't have our baby drones having any friendly contact with any adults can we it truly bugs the shit out of me that my son has to put his thumb print in a machine to get his dinner at school, I know it's nothing to do with this but I just wanted to moan about.

[Wales-Bales]

Christ can't have our baby drones having any friendly contact with any adults can we it truly bugs the shit out of me that my son has to put his thumb print in a machine to get his dinner at school, I know it's nothing to do with this but I just wanted to moan about.

This time next year it will be a thumb and 4 fingers, followed by both hands, and then an added iris scan. After that they will suggest inserting a microchip to simplify things

[Mrs Steve R]

This time next year it will be a thumb and 4 fingers, followed by both hands, and then an added iris scan. After that they will suggest inserting a microchip to simplify things

Well they can **** themselves the only chips going in my kids are potato

[life on mars]

Gosh what a lot of opinions, excuse me if I just go straight to the question, in my view political correctness is just an excuse for liberal minded people to hide behind emotion.

[Mrs Steve R]

Gosh what a lot of opinions, excuse me if I just go straight to the question, in my view political correctness is just an excuse for liberal minded people to hide behind emotion.

Hide in what way?