Warnock rips up U23 team and releases several players

[Michael Morris]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/r...under-12264273


Neil Warnock has ripped up Cardiff City's Under-23 team and told several youngsters to find new clubs after claiming the system isn't working.

Warnock has spent this week informing around ten of the club's Under-23 squad they had no future at the Bluebirds, believed to have included Wales Under-21 international Tommy O'Sullivan.

Instead, Warnock is ready to fat-track younger players into the set-up in what he thinks will give the club a better chance of producing first-team players from the academy.

Cardiff's academy has had a number of success stories over the years with Joe Ledley, Cameron Jerome, Darcy Blake, Adam Matthews, Chris Gunter, and – most notably – Aaron Ramsey coming through the system.

But Warnock believes the Football Association's switch to Under-23 games as the level immediately beneath the first-team has left the Bluebirds with bloated numbers of players who are unlikely to make the grade at Championship level.

The 68-year-old confirmed he told a number of players this week they will not be offered new contracts and to find new clubs, though said they have suffered from the system – something he says he has voiced concerns about previously to the game's authorities.

It is also thought Warnock and No.2 Kevin Blackwell will have more of a hands-on role in the Under-23 side, which he hopes will be able to benefit those moving up from the club's Under-18s, such as Wales age-grade international Mark Harris who has been offered a first professional contract by Warnock.

The former Sheffield United, QPR and Crystal Palace boss said: “We're restructuring the Under 23s as I don't feel it has solved the problem it was brought in for – and I don't think players get anything out of their games.

“We used to have the reserve leagues and play the pros who weren't in the first team with the young lads and you used to have competitive games. But it's almost like a five-a-side Under 23s now – and unfortunately for these young lads they've been failed by the system.

“It's not a new thing from my point of view, I've written to the League Manager's Association and voiced my concerns to the PFA regarding it.

“I don't see the logic of it, and all the coaching that's involved, if we're not getting the players through.”

The Under 23s – or the Development Squad – play in the Southern Section of the Professional Development League, consisting of Category Two academy clubs such as Crystal Palace, Watford, Ipswich and Charlton. The system replaced the old reserve team games in 2012 as part of plans to improve the development of youth players in the English game. It was initially for Under-21 sides but was last season upped to Under-23, with three over-age outfield players permitted.

“I don't think it's helping us and I don't think it's giving the younger players, the 18-year-olds, the right opportunities either,” added Warnock. “The lads in the 18s have to come up now, they have to have opportunities. Having so many Under-23s that aren't going to get in the first-team, I felt it needed restructuring, for the long-term future.”

It is not been confirmed which players have been told to move on – with the club prepared to assist them in finding new clubs – but the majority are thought to have been from the second and third year professionals group.

There have been suggestions of cost-cutting at Cardiff at academy level over the past season, although there has been no indication as to whether that has had any factor in Warnock's move.

Warnock personally broke the news to the affected players and admitted his disappointment at having to make such decisions, but said: “I've told them now because I left it until March or April they'll be among thousands out of work. Doing it now means they could have chances of a loan until the end of the season, whatever the level.

“I told them it's not the end of the world – I had the sack three times as a player and ended up playing 350 games – but you've got to get first team football, be it at Merthyr, Yeovil, wherever, they have to find a level and play proper games, not Under-23s.”

[MOZZER2]

some interesting views from warnock regarding the youth structure as cardiff city rip aparts there under 23's

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/r...under-12264273

[life on mars]

At last a manger who watches the youth and its system,which isn't working as it should , well done N.W. seems he cares ,and has a vision , not just at Cardiff but in a broader football sense .

[itkman]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/r...under-12264273



Instead, Warnock is ready to fat-track younger players into the set-up in what he thinks will give the club a better chance of producing first-team players from the academy.

Is he taking them out to Greggs instead of training?

(Error in the original too, has "the author" got a job at WoL?)

[the other bob wilson]

At last a manger who watches the youth and its system,which isn't working as it should , well done N.W. seems he cares ,and has a vision , not just at Cardiff but in a broader football sense .

Agreed, I've just said in an e-mail that I feel sorry for talented young (actually, they're not so young now) local players like Tommy O'Sullivan, Tom James and Theo Wharton because their career has been going nowhere at Cardiff for about three seasons.

Good to see Warnock doing something about a situation that was not aiding the club or the players concerned at all.

[Blue in the Face]

I don't think the narrowing of the loan window has improved things at all either. I understand that the F.A. wants fairness in regard to the lower league competitions. But it's to the detriment of the younger players. There are a fair few examples of success stories over recent years concerning players that our academy rejected but then went on to gain first team opportunities at lower league level. Surely this aludes to the notion that what young players need is real competative game time, not endless DVP games competing against teams who are made up mostly of players who will never become full time pros.

In my view the F.A. needs to adopt a different attitude to lower league loans. The maximum of fielding three loan players needs to be changed or scrapped for Welsh/English under 23 players. Likewise the loan window dates for under 23 players needs to go back to the dates we had in place last year and before. This could benefit young British players as well as the wage bill of lower league clubs. If the younger players are good enough to play and compete and player at lower league, then this could also see a raise in footballing standards.

NW is right that Tommy and the like have been let down by the system. I still think there is potential talent in personnel likely to leave. If destination clubs can be found, I would hope our club can allow them to leave on a free, but with sell on clauses and buy back clauses attached. On this point, I hope CCFC does rush into getting shot of the players set to be released and angles a way to insert these clauses.

[jon1959]

Warnock has spoken from day one about having a whole club approach and not just thinking about the First Team. He gives every impression of meaning it too - whether it is watching the age group teams, sending his assistants out to watch the loan players, making the office staff, ground-staff and 'tea lady' feel involved and wanted, and starting to get out to fans and community organisations (and not just the whiskey tasting freebee). He has also dropped very heavy hints that he would like a long-term role in some club (if not Cardiff) when he steps down as manager.

This decisive action around the u23s and u18s shows what the club has been missing for years - knowledge, confident decision making and a clear view of how the club needs to develop in the short, medium and long term - and ambition as well. I hope there is a place for him on the Board when he stops as manager, to provide advice and continuity, and that (without stepping on a new manager's toes) he can help to get us where we all want to be - secure, attractive, well supported and in the Premier League.

[Llanedeyrnblue]

Warnock has spoken from day one about having a whole club approach and not just thinking about the First Team. He gives every impression of meaning it too - whether it is watching the age group teams, sending his assistants out to watch the loan players, making the office staff, ground-staff and 'tea lady' feel involved and wanted, and starting to get out to fans and community organisations (and not just the whiskey tasting freebee). He has also dropped very heavy hints that he would like a long-term role in some club (if not Cardiff) when he steps down as manager.

This decisive action around the u23s and u18s shows what the club has been missing for years - knowledge, confident decision making and a clear view of how the club needs to develop in the short, medium and long term - and ambition as well. I hope there is a place for him on the Board when he stops as manager, to provide advice and continuity, and that (without stepping on a new manager's toes) he can help to get us where we all want to be - secure, attractive, well supported and in the Premier League.

^^^^^This and well said^^^^^

[Nemo]

I don't think the narrowing of the loan window has improved things at all either. I understand that the F.A. wants fairness in regard to the lower league competitions. But it's to the detriment of the younger players. There are a fair few examples of success stories over recent years concerning players that our academy rejected but then went on to gain first team opportunities at lower league level. Surely this aludes to the notion that what young players need is real competative game time, not endless DVP games competing against teams who are made up mostly of players who will never become full time pros.

In my view the F.A. needs to adopt a different attitude to lower league loans. The maximum of fielding three loan players needs to be changed or scrapped for Welsh/English under 23 players. Likewise the loan window dates for under 23 players needs to go back to the dates we had in place last year and before. This could benefit young British players as well as the wage bill of lower league clubs. If the younger players are good enough to play and compete and player at lower league, then this could also see a raise in footballing standards.

NW is right that Tommy and the like have been let down by the system. I still think there is potential talent in personnel likely to leave. If destination clubs can be found, I would hope our club can allow them to leave on a free, but with sell on clauses and buy back clauses attached. On this point, I hope CCFC does rush into getting shot of the players set to be released and angles a way to insert these clauses.

I agree that the changes in the loan system are not helpful but they are not the FA's fault. It is FIFA/UEFA who have insisted on it as part of the transfer window arrangements. Have some sympathy for some of the lads released but this action by Warnock is long overdue. We have been giving contracts to people with no realistic chance of making the first team simply to make up the numbers in the Development squad where they have done nothing except impede the development of the under 18s. Warnock is right too that Deveopment football is not doing it's job. Kids need to play with and against men at that age in order to make progress.

[Blue in the Face]

I agree that the changes in the loan system are not helpful but they are not the FA's fault. It is FIFA/UEFA who have insisted on it as part of the transfer window arrangements.

Oh really? Thanks for clearing that up. It might be some time before they see these changes are failing. In the mean time it will make sense for us to have way less numbers at DVP level. Some talent might slip through the net again, but we don't have much choice. Hopefully the more talented 15-19 year olds we have on our books will benefit.

[valley boy]

Its hard on some of these young kids and you can only imagine how they must be feeling.Unfortunately football is a business and the development team is not paying its way.There is enough talent in the area to produce some players for the first team as has been shown in recent past.I hope the players released are successful in the future but its nice to see that at last someone is getting a grip on the development side of things.

[Nemo]

Oh really? Thanks for clearing that up. It might be some time before they see these changes are failing. In the mean time it will make sense for us to have way less numbers at DVP level. Some talent might slip through the net again, but we don't have much choice. Hopefully the more talented 15-19 year olds we have on our books will benefit.

My recollection is that when the rigid Transfer Window arrangements were effectively imposed by FIFA some years ago the FA managed to negotiate a dispensation to allow the Emergency Loan system for lower league clubs which has operated in this country in recent years. I believe that dispensation was always time limited, however, and time has now run out. My memory isn't the best, though so maybe someone will correct me if I am wrong.

[thehumblegringo]

I don't think the narrowing of the loan window has improved things at all either. I understand that the F.A. wants fairness in regard to the lower league competitions. But it's to the detriment of the younger players. There are a fair few examples of success stories over recent years concerning players that our academy rejected but then went on to gain first team opportunities at lower league level. Surely this aludes to the notion that what young players need is real competative game time, not endless DVP games competing against teams who are made up mostly of players who will never become full time pros.

In my view the F.A. needs to adopt a different attitude to lower league loans. The maximum of fielding three loan players needs to be changed or scrapped for Welsh/English under 23 players. Likewise the loan window dates for under 23 players needs to go back to the dates we had in place last year and before. This could benefit young British players as well as the wage bill of lower league clubs. If the younger players are good enough to play and compete and player at lower league, then this could also see a raise in footballing standards.

NW is right that Tommy and the like have been let down by the system. I still think there is potential talent in personnel likely to leave. If destination clubs can be found, I would hope our club can allow them to leave on a free, but with sell on clauses and buy back clauses attached. On this point, I hope CCFC does rush into getting shot of the players set to be released and angles a way to insert these clauses.

I have thought about this a lot recently and I believe that the best way of giving these kids a chance of playing first team football is to ban loan fees for premier league clubs.

At the moment you have the ridiculous situation of clubs like Chelsea hoarding all the best young talent then loaning them out for big fees every season thus making them huge profits on their academy.

I believe a couple of seasons ago they had 40+ players on loan! Surely that is ridiculous and there no way the majority of those will ever represent Chelsea at first team level.

If loan fees were scrapped then Chelsea etc would think twice about keeping so many players cos it would not be of any benefit to them

[thehumblegringo]

Warnock has spoken from day one about having a whole club approach and not just thinking about the First Team. He gives every impression of meaning it too - whether it is watching the age group teams, sending his assistants out to watch the loan players, making the office staff, ground-staff and 'tea lady' feel involved and wanted, and starting to get out to fans and community organisations (and not just the whiskey tasting freebee). He has also dropped very heavy hints that he would like a long-term role in some club (if not Cardiff) when he steps down as manager.

This decisive action around the u23s and u18s shows what the club has been missing for years - knowledge, confident decision making and a clear view of how the club needs to develop in the short, medium and long term - and ambition as well. I hope there is a place for him on the Board when he stops as manager, to provide advice and continuity, and that (without stepping on a new manager's toes) he can help to get us where we all want to be - secure, attractive, well supported and in the Premier League.

Good post Jon and that how I see it too.

[thehumblegringo]

Whether Tandy likes it or not Russell Slades definitely never helped these kids.
As bad as manager as Ole was he tried to introduce players like Healy and James in our premier league year and he played Barnum-Bobb and others in the league cup. When we had dead rubber games at the end of Slades first season it was unbelievable that he opted to put Gabbidon on the bench instead of trying one of these kids

[surge]

It did feel that many of those mentioned as released, and our youth system in general, needed refocusing. I hope those Welsh players released take this as the spark to get their first team careers started and can work the way back into Championship football or higher.

[Tandy]

Whether Tandy likes it or not Russell Slades definitely never helped these kids.
As bad as manager as Ole was he tried to introduce players like Healy and James in our premier league year and he played Barnum-Bobb and others in the league cup. When we had dead rubber games at the end of Slades first season it was unbelievable that he opted to put Gabbidon on the bench instead of trying one of these kids

Slade, Trolls and now Colin knew these kids/men were not good enough for our first team that's why they are on their bike. The only people who would have selected them is you and Bob.

Let's see how many kids get a chance with Colin in charge. I don't think it will be many

[Sloop_Jon_Bee]

Warnock has spoken from day one about having a whole club approach and not just thinking about the First Team. He gives every impression of meaning it too - whether it is watching the age group teams, sending his assistants out to watch the loan players, making the office staff, ground-staff and 'tea lady' feel involved and wanted, and starting to get out to fans and community organisations (and not just the whiskey tasting freebee). He has also dropped very heavy hints that he would like a long-term role in some club (if not Cardiff) when he steps down as manager.

This decisive action around the u23s and u18s shows what the club has been missing for years - knowledge, confident decision making and a clear view of how the club needs to develop in the short, medium and long term - and ambition as well. I hope there is a place for him on the Board when he stops as manager, to provide advice and continuity, and that (without stepping on a new manager's toes) he can help to get us where we all want to be - secure, attractive, well supported and in the Premier League.

[Lawnmower]

Warnock has spoken from day one about having a whole club approach and not just thinking about the First Team. He gives every impression of meaning it too - whether it is watching the age group teams, sending his assistants out to watch the loan players, making the office staff, ground-staff and 'tea lady' feel involved and wanted, and starting to get out to fans and community organisations (and not just the whiskey tasting freebee). He has also dropped very heavy hints that he would like a long-term role in some club (if not Cardiff) when he steps down as manager.

This decisive action around the u23s and u18s shows what the club has been missing for years - knowledge, confident decision making and a clear view of how the club needs to develop in the short, medium and long term - and ambition as well. I hope there is a place for him on the Board when he stops as manager, to provide advice and continuity, and that (without stepping on a new manager's toes) he can help to get us where we all want to be - secure, attractive, well supported and in the Premier League.

POST OF THE YEAR

[Loramski]

Warnock has spoken from day one about having a whole club approach and not just thinking about the First Team. He gives every impression of meaning it too - whether it is watching the age group teams, sending his assistants out to watch the loan players, making the office staff, ground-staff and 'tea lady' feel involved and wanted, and starting to get out to fans and community organisations (and not just the whiskey tasting freebee). He has also dropped very heavy hints that he would like a long-term role in some club (if not Cardiff) when he steps down as manager.

This decisive action around the u23s and u18s shows what the club has been missing for years - knowledge, confident decision making and a clear view of how the club needs to develop in the short, medium and long term - and ambition as well. I hope there is a place for him on the Board when he stops as manager, to provide advice and continuity, and that (without stepping on a new manager's toes) he can help to get us where we all want to be - secure, attractive, well supported and in the Premier League.

Good post. Remember this thread?

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...=1#post4614892

I wonder if there's a connection or is it just a coincidence? One thing I certainly got wrong was that the cull would be seen purely as a cost-cutting exercise. Judging by the replies to your excellent post it seems to be viewed as positive, decisive action.

[Michael Morris]

Cardiff City FC can confirm that Kevin Nicholson has left his position as U23/DVP manager with immediate effect and by mutual agreement.

We'd like to thank Kevin for his contribution and wish him the best of luck for his future.

The Club’s First Team coaching staff shall directly oversee U23/DVP affairs going forward following an internal restructuring exercise at this age level.

Moving forward, the Club’s intention is to closer integrate U23/DVP players with first-team players so as to heighten their opportunities of representing Cardiff City at senior level.

Read more at http://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news/...Yiq2UR5qMzu.99

[jon1959]

Cardiff City FC can confirm that Kevin Nicholson has left his position as U23/DVP manager with immediate effect and by mutual agreement.

We'd like to thank Kevin for his contribution and wish him the best of luck for his future.

The Club’s First Team coaching staff shall directly oversee U23/DVP affairs going forward following an internal restructuring exercise at this age level.

Moving forward, the Club’s intention is to closer integrate U23/DVP players with first-team players so as to heighten their opportunities of representing Cardiff City at senior level.

Read more at http://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news/...Yiq2UR5qMzu.99

There really is a plan!

Kevin Nicholson came in with so many plaudits but seems to be the epitome of the young clipboard manager that Warnock loves to knock - churned out by Warwick University and who know the theory inside out but lack real experience or know-how.

But with James Rowberry taking charge of recent u23 games, and Warnock himself talking to the the squad about their individual futures - many away from the club - this announcement was probably inevitable. If Kevin Blackwell and James Rowberry are taking charge and the club is explicitly saying it wants to create opportunities for the best of the u23s in the First Team, this must be more good news.

Shame for Nicholson personally but (like Trollope) he is likely to be snapped up by some other club very soon.

[thehumblegringo]

As i have stated in the past i have no time for Nicholson and am personally glad to see the back of him.

His only desire was to promote himself and had no concern for Cardiff City football club in the slightest.

I've been told that he was constantly touting himself around other clubs and would continually undermine the clubs management on twitter with his Q&A sessions on twitter on attacking if the first team hadn't scored for a few games or defending when the first team were conceding goals!

I'm glad it hasn't taken Warnock long to see through this joker and now i hope he can pursue his dreams at his beloved Derby or something

[jon1959]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/f...youth-12279260

Club chief executive Ken Choo wanted to implement the new plans next summer, but Warnock [said] they should be fast-tracked through.

"From the moment we had a meeting with him about it, Neil was fully on board with this," explained Choo. "His view was why wait until the summer? He felt we should accelerate the process.

"Over the past two seasons we have had too many players in the development squad and too few actually making it into the first team. That had to change, quality over quantity.

"We asked Kevin to reduce the numbers, which he did. He also said thank-you to us for the great opportunity he was given by Cardiff City.

"Moving forward we want to see more local youngsters making the grade in the first team. Our under-18s are really good and they, like the under-23s, will come under the first team umbrella. If they are good enough, then Neil will pick them at Championship level."

[the other bob wilson]

As i have stated in the past i have no time for Nicholson and am personally glad to see the back of him.

His only desire was to promote himself and had no concern for Cardiff City football club in the slightest.

I've been told that he was constantly touting himself around other clubs and would continually undermine the clubs management on twitter with his Q&A sessions on twitter on attacking if the first team hadn't scored for a few games or defending when the first team were conceding goals!

I'm glad it hasn't taken Warnock long to see through this joker and now i hope he can pursue his dreams at his beloved Derby or something

I don't think his career at Cardiff ever recovered from the furore caused by asking for me to be moved from behind the goals at a Development team game down the Vale earlier this season .