+ Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39

Thread: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

  1. #1
    International jon1959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheffield - out of Roath
    Posts
    15,892

    Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    It seems the government (with 100% support from Labour) is going to adopt the definition of antisemitism that was agreed in May at the conference of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (European countries but not Russia + USA, Canada and Israel).

    “Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...me-jews-israel

    With further detailed guidance:

    https://www.holocaustremembrance.com...tisemitism.pdf

    Whilst most of this looks fine, in practice it also accepts the Israeli government view that criticism of Zionism should be considered anti-semitic. It does that through the definitions that relate to the State of Israel where - although it says criticism of the Israeli government is not anti-semitic - it treats the State of Israel as if it was any other 'liberal democracy'. It isn't. It is based on a Zionist ideology (that is political not religious), and although it has open elections it has constructed an apartheid system that gives greater rights and privileges to Jewish citizens.

    Much of the recent debate about (a real rise in) antisemitism in Europe and north America has been about finding ways to gag pro-Palestinian campaigners, cynically using a warped appeal to anti-racism/antisemitism to silence political opposition to the Israeli government. It appears from the brief quote from Labour that they have been completely spooked by attacks on Livingstone/Shah/Momentum/Corbyn/Chakrabarti etc and have surrendered the argument to John Mann and his like in the party.

  2. #2

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise." - Voltaire.

  3. #3

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    The term is used by both sides to hide their own scumbaggery.

    You'll see some on twitter and previously on here say it is used to collectively dismiss all anti israel opinion. They'll even post a meme of a ultra orthodox jew being anti israel, wow

    Then you've got defenders of israel claiming all criticism is anti semitism. Often taken and run with by the media.

    It is used by both not for the genuine reasons the term exists.

    Jews have been mocked in movies and entertainment far more than any other religion. So this idea that no one can comment on on judaism is lying.

  4. #4

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise." - Voltaire.
    And the arabs are spreading their wealth and reach throughout the world due to the fact the oil will end.

    Why is there no outcry?.

    There are many rich christian americans flogging wares between themselves?.

    Chinese?.

    Anti jewish sentiment ingrained in dumb christian/islamic nations for centuries.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 12-12-16 at 12:07.

  5. #5

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Arabs are Semites too. No-one gets accused of antisemitism for blowing 'em to bits. Let's keep on pretending Israel hasn't nuclear weapons (that's weapons of mass destruction, folks). That way they don't have to be inspected, the country doesn't have sanctions imposed, doesn't get blitzed and successive UK Prime Ministers bow in homage as members of the Labour and Conservative Friends of Israel groups.

  6. #6

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    The difference being I don't care about criticism of israel.

    Which is what you've just commented on.

  7. #7
    International jon1959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheffield - out of Roath
    Posts
    15,892

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    The term is used by both sides to hide their own scumbaggery.

    You'll see some on twitter and previously on here say it is used to collectively dismiss all anti israel opinion. They'll even post a meme of a ultra orthodox jew being anti israel, wow

    Then you've got defenders of israel claiming all criticism is anti semitism. Often taken and run with by the media.

    It is used by both not for the genuine reasons the term exists.

    Jews have been mocked in movies and entertainment far more than any other religion. So this idea that no one can comment on on judaism is lying.
    Some of the most fervent anti-Zionists are orthodox Jews. Some of the most outspoken opponents of the Israeli government's policies (including the illegal settlement programme) are orthodox Jews. There are not large numbers of them, though.

    The Israeli 'apartheid' label has stuck in recent years, and the Boycott, Disinvestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement has had some real success. I think that is one reason why the Israeli government and its supporters have been so determined to win the propaganda war over promoting Zionism as synonymous with Judaism and anti-Zionism with antisemitism. Whilst there is a real war to be won against deep rooted and growing antisemitism (and much faster growing Islamophobia) this redefinition 'victory' is in my view totally political.

    http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-speci...-hell/1.671538

  8. #8

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Some of the most fervent anti-Zionists are orthodox Jews. Some of the most outspoken opponents of the Israeli government's policies (including the illegal settlement programme) are orthodox Jews. There are not large numbers of them, though.

    The Israeli 'apartheid' label has stuck in recent years, and the Boycott, Disinvestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement has had some real success. I think that is one reason why the Israeli government and its supporters have been so determined to win the propaganda war over promoting Zionism as synonymous with Judaism and anti-Zionism with antisemitism. Whilst there is a real war to be won against deep rooted and growing antisemitism (and much faster growing Islamophobia) this redefinition 'victory' is in my view totally political.

    http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-speci...-hell/1.671538
    Ye that is what I meant. Many Jews don't believe in the state.

    I don't think they will ever gain widespread credibility as long as islamic countries are present in the UN. And that is what is boils down to for me.

    The lack of care for Palestinian refugees by muslim governments (from what I have read?). They use them as a political football, serving their own purpose. Their hatred of jews holding the land covering the mosque.

    If you take religion out of it the conflict would rarely be covered. Dai Splott had the gall to claim russias annexation of crimea was legitimate. One of the most hypocritical people I've witnessed online.

    Palestinians suffer - Iran etc continue to fuel the war by releasing rhetoric that will inflame and gain violent followers. Israel continue statement building. Only one side is innocent.

    It is impossible to call anything in the middle east a certain group of peoples "homeland". So much death and destruction, the original heirs were probably beheaded and put on stakes.

    Dislike of islam and the "turk" has always been present. The media cover Islamophobia more and it sells papers. I really do not think we are in a crisis.

    Gone a bit wide of the topic now mind!.

  9. #9
    International jon1959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheffield - out of Roath
    Posts
    15,892

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Meanwhile over in Googleland the far right is re-writing history to make out the holocaust was an invention of the non-white and non-right. Very sinister and very scary.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...w-we-see-world

  10. #10

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Meanwhile over in Googleland the far right is re-writing history to make out the holocaust was an invention of the non-white and non-right. Very sinister and very scary.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...w-we-see-world
    Both left and right use holocaust denial.

    Left leaning pro palestine/pro islam
    Christian hatred of Judaism

    Go hand in hand.

    But ye, it is scary how history slowly dissolves. Eventually it will be forgotten of course. The species is dumb and it is a matter of time before the next disaster that we will all learn from. Saying that most people are peaceful.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 12-12-16 at 13:54.

  11. #11

    Re: Can someone tell Ken Livingston and Naz Shah about this

    People seem to be confused here, nobody is saying that you can't say nasty things about Israel or its policies

  12. #12
    International jon1959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheffield - out of Roath
    Posts
    15,892

    Re: Can someone tell Ken Livingston and Naz Shah about this

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    People seem to be confused here, nobody is saying that you can't say nasty things about Israel or its policies
    I may be wrong but I don't think so. I think this 'definition' is intended to close down a lot of criticism of the State of Israel's underlying political ideology: Zionism. The Guardian summary says:

    The government is to formally adopt a definition of what constitutes antisemitism, which includes over-sweeping condemnation of Israel

    In my opinion there are a lot of weasel words used when people say criticism of Israeli government policies is still OK (thanks) because the way many of them are couched - in relation to the state ideology - is being redefined as antisemitic.

    Try this:

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/213158

  13. #13

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Israel has always been a fantastic propaganda player. I wonder if compli-sults count as over-sweeping condemnation.

  14. #14

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    There's more than enough laws already on the statute book criminalising racial and religious hatred and discrimination without Israel/Jewish people getting special protection.

    As for the Holohoax, the corporate media has long since lost its monopoly on publishing news thanks to the internet. I wish some people would do their own research on the subject rather than mindlessly repeating the absurd propaganda they've been subjected to.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Tredegar
    Posts
    3,767

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    There's more than enough laws already on the statute book criminalising racial and religious hatred and discrimination without Israel/Jewish people getting special protection.

    As for the Holohoax, the corporate media has long since lost its monopoly on publishing news thanks to the internet. I wish some people would do their own research on the subject rather than mindlessly repeating the absurd propaganda they've been subjected to.

    Around 6 million ghosts just called you a ****.

  16. #16

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Ah, the magic six million number once again. Have stated the following a number of times prior in other threads. Late 1940s: plaque erected outside Auschwitz which stated four million people died here. Decades later the Polish government revised the total down to 1.6 million. Then that plaque was removed to be replaced with another that reflected a new total. It was then revised again to 1.2 million. You can verify all this with a few clicks. So, how does six million minus 2.8 million still equal six million?

    The real number's around 200,000. Most perished from disease at the arse end of the war. The skeletal figures we're used to seeing from film footage at liberated work camps was a result of allied bombing of supply lines; all of Germany was suffering food shortages.

  17. #17

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Ah, the magic six million number once again. Have stated the following a number of times prior in other threads. Late 1940s: plaque erected outside Auschwitz which stated four million people died here. Decades later the Polish government revised the total down to 1.6 million. Then that plaque was removed to be replaced with another that reflected a new total. It was then revised again to 1.2 million. You can verify all this with a few clicks. So, how does six million minus 2.8 million still equal six million?

    The real number's around 200,000. Most perished from disease at the arse end of the war. The skeletal figures we're used to seeing from film footage at liberated work camps was a result of allied bombing of supply lines; all of Germany was suffering food shortages.
    I think we can all agree that THIS is some good ol fashioned anti Semitism.

  18. #18

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I think we can all agree that THIS is some good ol fashioned anti Semitism.
    That's not anti-semitism, it's an opinion which he is perfectly entitled to hold and to express. You don't have to agree with it.

    As for the 6 million (or however many it was) relating to the definition of antisemitism by the IHRA - there shouldn’t be a league table of victimhood. Religious bigotry and racism are universal and like Organ Morgan says these are covered by legislation already in place in the UK. Do the Irish get their own special definition of prejudice against them? How about people from Tibet?

  19. #19

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Ah, the magic six million number once again. Have stated the following a number of times prior in other threads. Late 1940s: plaque erected outside Auschwitz which stated four million people died here. Decades later the Polish government revised the total down to 1.6 million. Then that plaque was removed to be replaced with another that reflected a new total. It was then revised again to 1.2 million. You can verify all this with a few clicks. So, how does six million minus 2.8 million still equal six million?

    The real number's around 200,000. Most perished from disease at the arse end of the war. The skeletal figures we're used to seeing from film footage at liberated work camps was a result of allied bombing of supply lines; all of Germany was suffering food shortages.
    Where does the 200k figure come from then bellend.

  20. #20

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    But really you speak with such certainty.

    Yet your own beliefs are based on **** all.

    And instead of talking about what this thread was intended for, you bring up the holocaust. Complete scummer.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 13-12-16 at 11:51.

  21. #21

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I think we can all agree that THIS is some good old fashioned simple mathematics.
    I agree.

  22. #22

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    Where does the 200k figure come from then bellend.
    Look, just because I'm challenging your misguided beliefs there's no need to get arsey.

    Source? The Red Cross.

  23. #23

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Look, just because I'm challenging your misguided beliefs there's no need to get arsey.

    Source? The Red Cross.
    You're welcome to your beliefs.

    The same way the turks try to white wash their past disgraces.

    Time kills all and they know it.

  24. #24

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    figures for Auchwitz is around a million, 925,000 at treblinka which was a death camp only as was belzac and sobibor which account for another 700,000, over a million shot by eiinzangruppen in the east including over 33,000 in three days at babi yar, approx 800,000 starved to death in ghettos, all adding up, we will never know the exact figure it may be 6 million it may be less, does it excuse the horror or the systematic genocide of jews plus gypsies, jehovas witnesses, people with mental handicaps, gays etc no it does not.

  25. #25
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: Antisemitism - UK adopts 'new' definition

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    figures for Auchwitz is around a million, 925,000 at treblinka which was a death camp only as was belzac and sobibor which account for another 700,000, over a million shot by eiinzangruppen in the east including over 33,000 in three days at babi yar, approx 800,000 starved to death in ghettos, all adding up, we will never know the exact figure it may be 6 million it may be less, does it excuse the horror or the systematic genocide of jews plus gypsies, jehovas witnesses, people with mental handicaps, gays etc no it does not.
    thank God Organ morgan wasn't around back then, then we'd have 200,001 victims

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •