Reply With QuoteSacked your manager yet?Originally Posted by Jursset_BrisCity
Found out big time this season and its not even 2017 yet!
Your on a downward slide and no f****r is going to miss you Wurzel c***s
| + Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results |
I was answering the point about Bayern and Barca which is a superior brand of football!
Sacked your manager yet?
Found out big time this season and its not even 2017 yet!
Your on a downward slide and no f****r is going to miss you Wurzel c***s
Sacked your manager yet?
Found out big time this season and its not even 2017 yet!
Your on a downward slide and no f****r is going to miss you Wurzel c***s
Is it about their 'system' and 'method' ?
Or having the best players ?
I think it's the latter.
The term 'brand' is so feckin Sky.
Style of play maybe.
But 'brand'
I don't necessarily agree it's a superior brand of football. More a brand of football that suits the "superior" players that they have.
What I find frustrating is that because Barcelona have been successful playing a certain type of football, every other team then tries to play the same way as them. This invariably leads to poor football because they don't have the players to suit that type of game.
The Warnock is the font of all knowledge , this passing football is the most tedious thing to creep into our game , bloody Spaniards and their gorgeousness.
Was going to say that myself, it depends on what players you have that dictates your style of play, or if the team are playing with confidence. Normally teams revert to long ball games if confidence is low.
But the superior player dictates the 'brand' of football.Is it about their 'system' and 'method' ?
Or having the best players ?
I think it's the latter.
The term 'brand' is so feckin Sky.
Style of play maybe.
But 'brand'
I read an article the other day which stated that the higher the standard of football the more smaller players are on the pitch.
For example in league 2 there are very few small players but every level you go up you see the players getting smaller and smaller and then when you reach the champions league a high percentage of players are relatively small.
I listened to a guy on talksport yesterday saying that a "good big player" is better than a "good small player" but i don't even know what that means!
Part of the reason that Eden Hazard, Lionel Messi, Diego Maradona are so good is because they have a low centre of gravity that allows them to shift the ball and turn quicker.
So Warwick Davis is the next Messi, by that logic.
And we should sign Andre the Giant (if he was still alive) and chuck him up front by your logic!
I am picking out ONE aspect of the game, which is free kicks on the halfway line and saying, "instead of wasting an opportunity of getting the ball in the box, use it.
I am not saying LUMP it up the pitch ALL THE TIME.
Example:---- 92 minute of a game, 2-1 down, you get a free kick on the halfway line, would YOU "take it SHORT or LONG"
SEE, simples init.
Thing is under Neil Warnock philosophy it's done for 92 mins of the game....I am picking out ONE aspect of the game, which is free kicks on the halfway line and saying, "instead of wasting an opportunity of getting the ball in the box, use it.
I am not saying LUMP it up the pitch ALL THE TIME.
Example:---- 92 minute of a game, 2-1 down, you get a free kick on the halfway line, would YOU "take it SHORT or LONG"
SEE, simples init.
Real are just as good- if not better.
Again, due to having the best players.
Its all far far more complicated that simple big and small Long and short and this term of 'brand' is a load of bollox.
2 of Liverpools goals yesterday were due to long balls.
Playing at pace, thinking quickly, making good decisions and executing them is what is required.
Short if necessary, long if it's on.
Defend properly as well.
Liverpool, like Forest and a few others who tried to play out from the back without the players to do it will concede more than they would if they defended properly.
Doesn't matter to Barca as 95% of the time their physically and technically superior players will make up for any errors.
Most of this stuff about 'brand' is a pile of Sky induced bollox if you ask me. Sad to see so many who I'd expect to know better falling for it
There are a few big sides at the top half of the premiership, with very big forwards up front , you watch every now and again the ball is pinged to them , its about variation, if you watch Jose substitutions in the later minutes of a game, is always little man off, big man on, as he knows the long ball is coming whoever the side is .
With all due respect you have just focused on the one word "brand" to ignore the rest of the argument! You have bizarrely interpreted this to make an argument that some people have been brainwashed by sky!
First of all, nobody in their right mind would claim that Real Madrid have been anywhere near as good as Barcelona in the last decade. In the last 11 seasons Barcelona have won the league 7 times compared to Real Madrid's 3. And i don't believe even that reflects the true nature of Barcelona's dominance.
Madrid are probably closer now than they have been during any period in the past 10 years and its no coincidence that this is at a time where Xavi and Alves has moved on and Iniesta's powers are waning.
If you want to see Iniesta's influence watch a re-run of the last classico. Barca couldn't get the ball til he came on then Madrid couldn't get the ball. (This was his first game back after a long injury)
I watched the Liverpool goals back just incase my mind was deceiving me and not one of those goals came from a long hopeful hoof into the box (which was the original argument of this thread that now seems to have evolved into anything other than a 5-a-side pass)
If you are calling the 20 yard dink into Origi's feet a hoof into the box then i give up!
It's a myth that Barca didn't play any passes longer than 5 yards just the would retain possession to work an opening. Personally I'd rather a team do this than just play percentages.
"I watched the Liverpool goals back just incase my mind was deceiving me and not one of those goals came from a long hopeful hoof into the box (which was the original argument of this thread that now seems to have evolved into anything other than a 5-a-side pass)"
At no point did I say any of Liverpool's goals came from "a long hopeful hoof into the box"
What I said was "Teams WASTED a chance of a long hopeful punt", then made 15/20 passes to go backwards to their own keeper.
I was brought up on attack,attack, attack and while we're at it, to take the DEBATE further, "I hate it when a centre forward plays with his back to the opposition's goal"
You also said you were a "get it into the frigging box type of watcher" which says to me that you're not a big fan of ball retention."I watched the Liverpool goals back just incase my mind was deceiving me and not one of those goals came from a long hopeful hoof into the box (which was the original argument of this thread that now seems to have evolved into anything other than a 5-a-side pass)"
At no point did I say any of Liverpool's goals came from "a long hopeful hoof into the box"
What I said was "Teams WASTED a chance of a long hopeful punt", then made 15/20 passes to go backwards to their own keeper.
I was brought up on attack,attack, attack and while we're at it, to take the DEBATE further, "I hate it when a centre forward plays with his back to the opposition's goal"
"You also said you were a "get it into the frigging box type of watcher" which says to me that you're not a big fan of ball retention."
Yes, when you have a FREE KICK on the halfway line and you have in your team 2 centre halfs & 2 full backs who are 7ft frigging tall.
It not rocket science that you are going to cause problems as we did against 'Uddersfield.
Ball retention in your own half is great, FOR SENDING YOU TO SLEEP
There's been little between the sides recently with Real doing better in Europe, where the competition is tougher.
As for the Liverpool game, the 3rd and 1st goals they created were from long cross field passes.
Were they made by a Warnock side they would be seen as long balls, which is what they were 30-40 yards.
Certainly not the pointless short square and backward balls which the statisticians love.
Pace and tempo create chances, and for me it's more important to move the ball quickly and accurately into danger areas than merely keep it.
The top sides and very very best players can do this accurately, but not many at our level can- hence a lot will be hopeful balls. Again better than losing possession in front of you own goals.
Also on Barnsley, which I've seen mentioned, they didn't play exciting one touch football, more sucked us in and hit us on the break - scoring 4 out of 5 chances- and having a fair bit of luck with at least 3 of these.
Poor defending or the ball breaking or landing in a 1 in 100 spot.
Iniesta is a wonderful player who should have won the Ballon D'or already in his career - perhaps twice. However, this may be entering yet another conversation where I argue that Mascherano was a better player than Messi at the 2014 World Cup and the obsession with goal scoring means we often overlook the best performance on the pitch.
I don't think i or anyone else was saying that the ball has to be passed less than 10 yards to be effective.
I do think there is definitely a place for a long pass but my whole argument is that people are quick to speak of 'tica taka' in derogatory tones which i find bizarre.
What Barcelona done under Guardiola was incredible and let's remember that most of their players were coming through their La Masia youth system whilst Real Madrid were spending 100s of millions!
In those year they've gone to the Bernabau and thrashed Madrid by 3 or 4 goals at least 3 times which is unheard of.
People who think they were just passing the ball for the sake of it misunderstand what is going on when they are doing it.
I will agree some of Bluetit's original premise that if the keeper is just gonna launch it anywaythat its pointless but let's not throw out the baby with thw bathwater.
Along with maybe Messi, Iniesta is my favourite player. The guy is absolutely incredible and i have been trying to get my little lad to master the La Croqueta.
Not sure I said anything about Barnsley playing one touch football, what I did say was that they embarrassed us with their pace and that we are incapable of playing in the way they did despite the "bigger" names (many of whom cost more than any Barnsley player did) in our squad. The only bit of luck I saw in their goals was when Whitts knocked the ball to one of their players for the third one.
Barnsley are joint second top scorers in the division, so they must have had a tremendous amount of that luck you talk about this season. Hopefully, Zohore can maintain his current form and we can keep on presenting defences with more to deal with than the long, high ball to a static big man, because, in complete contrast to Barnsley's pace, movement, finishing ability and incisive passing, that's all we've had for most of the time this season.
Our Neil is right for us now. Another experimental manager would have sent us into free fall. Personally I would have loved to see Jaap Stam here.
I just want entertainment and sometimes hoofball provides that. But not all the time, every time.
I'm not questioning that. I'm very happy with the club at present and it definitely looks like we're heading in the right direction.
I feel like some people are so blinkered by Cardiff City that they fear saying anything negative though.
For what it's worth i think Warnock will sign well and we will definitely stay up and push on next season and I've been very impressed that Warnock has come will a long term vision as well as short term to get us out of the mess we're in.
Posting Permissions
