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Thread: Gina Miller

  1. #1

    Gina Miller

    Having taken the government to the Supreme Court regarding the validity of the Brexit vote she is now threatening to go to court again to push for the matter to be fully discussed in the House of Lords

    Is this democracy in action or is she taking the 'piss' out of the UK democratic process?

  2. #2

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    Having taken the government to the Supreme Court regarding the validity of the Brexit vote she is now threatening to go to court again to push for the matter to be fully discussed in the House of Lords

    Is this democracy in action or is she taking the 'piss' out of the UK democratic process?
    Not at all. But she is asking the UK courts whether the UK government is attempting to take the 'piss' out of U.K. law.

  3. #3

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    Having taken the government to the Supreme Court regarding the validity of the Brexit vote she is now threatening to go to court again to push for the matter to be fully discussed in the House of Lords

    Is this democracy in action or is she taking the 'piss' out of the UK democratic process?
    It's far better to live in a country where the public can challenge the rulers. How can anyone question or doubt whether its a good thing? If she is taking the piss, then the case won't even get started.

    By the way, the initial case was not about the 'validity of the Brexit vote'.

  4. #4

    Re: Gina Miller

    Thought this was another RIP

    BORING

    POLITICS FORUM PLEASE "BOSS" :xmashehe::xmashehe:

  5. #5

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    Having taken the government to the Supreme Court regarding the validity of the Brexit vote she is now threatening to go to court again to push for the matter to be fully discussed in the House of Lords

    Is this democracy in action or is she taking the 'piss' out of the UK democratic process?
    Brexit means Brexit
    Oldie, loves my footy and the horses I do

  6. #6
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    Brexit means Brexit
    Yes, but what does that mean?
    there are fascists pretending to be humanitarians like cannibals on a healthkick eating only vegetarians (Roger McGough)

  7. #7

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    Brexit means Brexit
    Beanz meanz Heinz
    Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

  8. #8

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Ring_Peace View Post
    Beanz meanz Heinz
    Beanz Meanz Cross & Blackwell

    Heinz are shite
    Oldie, loves my footy and the horses I do

  9. #9

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Yes, but what does that mean?
    It means that was what the majority of those that took part in the referendum voted for. Which was to leave the European Union
    Oldie, loves my footy and the horses I do

  10. #10

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    It means that was what the majority of those that took part in the referendum voted for. Which was to leave the European Union
    exactly

    just smacks of a sore loser

  11. #11

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    It means that was what the majority of those that took part in the referendum voted for. Which was to leave the European Union
    And brexit we will, but surely you'd prefer that brexit to be delivered via full consultation will your elected members of parliament rather than dictated to you by an individual?

  12. #12

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by itkman View Post
    And brexit we will, but surely you'd prefer that brexit to be delivered via full consultation will your elected members of parliament rather than dictated to you by an individual?
    A few people on this board could do with reading up on what the case was actually about instead of just glancing at an ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE headline.

  13. #13

    Re: Gina Miller

    Ms Miller is the founder and chairman of Miller Philanthropy, which she launched with her husband Alan, the original “Mr Hedge Fund”, who made more than 30 million in the City.

    Peoples champion obviously.
    We may not know yet where we're going, but we've already left where we've been

  14. #14

    Re: Gina Miller

    I wonder who her puppeteer is?
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

    "As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see 'the River Tiber foaming with much blood.'"

    What I can't stomach are Bolshies, skivers, scrimshanks, and boghouse barristers!

    A woman a dog and a walnut tree the more you beat them the better they be.

  15. #15

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    Having taken the government to the Supreme Court regarding the validity of the Brexit vote she is now threatening to go to court again to push for the matter to be fully discussed in the House of Lords

    Is this democracy in action or is she taking the 'piss' out of the UK democratic process?
    Easy answer which you may or may not like , it is a wonderful democracy in action , be proud of it at least we haven't got a man r killing/imprisoning us if we don't agree , be proud , even if it annoys , we are one of the most democratic society's in the world .

  16. #16

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Yes, but what does that mean?
    Well its not as one Welsh MP put it breakfast .

    On reflection, do you think some of the folk voted leave thought they were voting for or against breakfast , which might explain a lot of outpouring of emotion on this matter from folk who don't usually know where the ballot box is situated or how to vote .

  17. #17

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    It means that was what the majority of those that took part in the referendum voted for. Which was to leave the European Union
    Did the Referendum ask whether we wanted to sever all ties with the EU? Nope it didn't. We will be leaving the EU but that does not mean we cannot carry on trading with our EU colleagues. We will also need to maintain border security. How can we achieve that without maintaining a relationship with the French?

  18. #18

    Re: Gina Miller

    I am glad we live in a country where the government is required to act within the law.

  19. #19
    International Mrs Steve R's Avatar
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    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I am glad we live in a country where the government is required to act within the law.
    Did you get that from a Christmas cracker?
    'It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled'

  20. #20

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    Brexit means Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Yes, but what does that mean?
    It's a pointless sound bite by a Prime Minister who appears to specialise in them. She doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as her predecessor was, but she does confirm a general impression that this Government isn't much cop and and would be in some trouble if the main opposition party was not a complete and utter shambles.

  21. #21

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    Brexit means Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Yes, but what does that mean?
    It's a pointless sound bite by a Prime Minister who appears to specialise in them. She doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as her predecessor was, but she does confirm a general impression that this Government isn't much cop and and would be in some trouble if the main opposition party was not a complete and utter shambles.

  22. #22

    Re: Gina Miller

    Sorry for the repeat post, it's cold outside and, of course we all know that this slows down your Internet connection to an absolute snail's pace when that happens. Also, the cold means that when you are told that websites cannot be reached, they actually can be, but, very, very slowly - hence my multiple attempts over a fifteen minute period to post one short message, BT broadband, what a winner!
    Last edited by the other bob wilson; 30-12-16 at 05:01.

  23. #23

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Sorry for the repeat post, it's cold outside and, of course we all know that this slows down your Internet connection to an absolute snail's pace when that happens. Also, the cold means that when you are told that websites cannot be reached, they actually can be, but, very, very slowly - hence my multiple attempts over a fifteen minute period to post one short message, BT broadband, what a winner!
    She - just like us is entitled to do whatever she wants as long as it is within the law. Well that's one side of the argument.

    The other side being she and her mate 'the pimlico plumber' are obviously doing this for the express reason of slowing down the already slow process and trying to get it all bogged down in red tape. What is there to stop the Govt from passing a law to say that they will have the final say and not the supreme court etc.

    It's all political gesturing and whether you approve or not is down to your stand point I guess.

    It could however be a whole lot worse, Prime Minister Corbyn idea of Brexit would be

    The Brexit vote meant leave the EU, with the ability to create UK laws which could not be usurped by any EU institution and as such striek trade deals, claim back fishing rights etc etc etc and everything else - so anything or anybody within the EU which stops that - we should not be part of.

    Like it or not that was what was voted for - and the UK needs to ensure that happens.

    Personally - the whole question should never have been asked - and it was an impossible answer (internal EU reform was needed, free movement of people pre Maastright etc as an example ), but the result happened, anything else and we may not be as democratic as we tell others to be.

    UK growth forecast to go from 2.2 to 1.4% , Germany forecast to go from 1.4% growth to 1.0% in 2017. Uncertain times ahead for all it seems. I guess no one saw the ex Australian commissioner interview about what happened the week after Brexit - it seems there is a queue forming. Very interesting times ahead full of opportunity, maybe upsetting the apple cart was needed for reform all round

  24. #24

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I am glad we live in a country where the government is required to act within the law.
    Agreed,
    Do you believe that all citizens of the said country should act within the law ?
    We may not know yet where we're going, but we've already left where we've been

  25. #25

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    She - just like us is entitled to do whatever she wants as long as it is within the law. Well that's one side of the argument.

    The other side being she and her mate 'the pimlico plumber' are obviously doing this for the express reason of slowing down the already slow process and trying to get it all bogged down in red tape. What is there to stop the Govt from passing a law to say that they will have the final say and not the supreme court etc.

    It's all political gesturing and whether you approve or not is down to your stand point I guess.

    It could however be a whole lot worse, Prime Minister Corbyn idea of Brexit would be

    The Brexit vote meant leave the EU, with the ability to create UK laws which could not be usurped by any EU institution and as such striek trade deals, claim back fishing rights etc etc etc and everything else - so anything or anybody within the EU which stops that - we should not be part of.

    Like it or not that was what was voted for - and the UK needs to ensure that happens.

    Personally - the whole question should never have been asked - and it was an impossible answer (internal EU reform was needed, free movement of people pre Maastright etc as an example ), but the result happened, anything else and we may not be as democratic as we tell others to be.

    UK growth forecast to go from 2.2 to 1.4% , Germany forecast to go from 1.4% growth to 1.0% in 2017. Uncertain times ahead for all it seems. I guess no one saw the ex Australian commissioner interview about what happened the week after Brexit - it seems there is a queue forming. Very interesting times ahead full of opportunity, maybe upsetting the apple cart was needed for reform all round
    The rest of Parliament, which is the point of the initial case.

  26. #26

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    The rest of Parliament, which is the point of the initial case.
    I know - that was the point I was trying to make.

    Gina Miller goes to court to prove a point of law
    As long as there is a parliamentary will - then the Govt can enact law to make what she is trying to do illegal.

    Ironically - this could go all the way the to the EU courts - and how bizarre would that be

  27. #27

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I know - that was the point I was trying to make.

    Gina Miller goes to court to prove a point of law
    As long as there is a parliamentary will - then the Govt can enact law to make what she is trying to do illegal.

    Ironically - this could go all the way the to the EU courts - and how bizarre would that be
    This makes no sense. You are saying that Parliament might pass a law or act which hands power completely to the government and away from Parliament?

  28. #28

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    This makes no sense. You are saying that Parliament might pass a law or act which hands power completely to the government and away from Parliament?
    The Tories have an absolute majority (just like Labour did with Blair) - (if) they wanted to and they had enough of their MPs on side - then in theory they can pass whatever laws they want - that is democracy.

    This whole argument is having the exact outcome Gina Miller wanted though - red tape followed by procedural law semantics etc etc and as I said the oriny or irony - it going to the EU court to decide.

    Monty Python could only have dreamed of stuff like this

  29. #29

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    The Tories have an absolute majority (just like Labour did with Blair) - (if) they wanted to and they had enough of their MPs on side - then in theory they can pass whatever laws they want - that is democracy.

    This whole argument is having the exact outcome Gina Miller wanted though - red tape followed by procedural law semantics etc etc and as I said the oriny or irony - it going to the EU court to decide.

    Monty Python could only have dreamed of stuff like this
    It's a small majority, it would still have to go to Lords and it would (I would hope) be such an undemocratic thing that enough MPs would oppose it. What you're suggesting in this hypothetical, if I understand it, is that the power of the public to stand up to the government be removed. In effect, turning the UK into a dictatorship.

    It amazes me that there are people, whether you agree with the outcome to this particular one or not, who think that she (and by extension any of us) shouldn't be allowed to challenge the government. We're so lucky to be able to do this, I imagine the majority of global citizens can't (I haven't researched the numbers).

    Perhaps one day UK citizens won't be able to do it. That's not going to make our lives any better.

  30. #30

    Re: Gina Miller

    Not really - Remember Tony Blair ? Tuition fees were introduced by a law that no one wanted and certainly were not part of the platform they were elected on. David Blunkett pushed through the first fees of 1,000 per year but said there would be no further top up fees etc . They then introduced a law doing the exact opposite.

    So a Govt can do very roughly what it wants with regards to new laws (they can always get voted out in 5 years time) PLUS any laws passed by the Commons can only be sent back to the commons before being forced through the House of 'lords'.

    The opposite end of this is have referendums for everything like they do in Switzerland.

  31. #31

    Re: Gina Miller

    If its as simple as you say, I have two questions.

    1. Why didn't the government do this (just change the law)?
    2. Why have I never seen a political commentator suggest this action as an option?

  32. #32

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelsonca61 View Post
    Agreed,
    Do you believe that all citizens of the said country should act within the law ?
    Yes.

  33. #33

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R View Post
    Did you get that from a Christmas cracker?
    *when people notice.

  34. #34

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    If its as simple as you say, I have two questions.

    1. Why didn't the government do this (just change the law)?
    2. Why have I never seen a political commentator suggest this action as an option?
    It all sounds like wishing for more wishes to me. Surely it isn't possible.

  35. #35

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It all sounds like wishing for more wishes to me. Surely it isn't possible.
    If we're all being honest with ourselves, we don't really understand the workings. I would strongly suspect that reforming the Supreme Court (again) and the government backtracking on tuition fees are not at all similar, and neither could be called 'passing a law'.

    So of course it isn't possible. It goes without saying that if the government isn't already doing 'roughly what it wants' regarding this then it can't.

  36. #36

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    If its as simple as you say, I have two questions.

    1. Why didn't the government do this (just change the law)?
    2. Why have I never seen a political commentator suggest this action as an option?
    I dont know if you noticed - but the referendum result was a few months back and the court case not long afterwards - for things of a 'law' and politics' matter - this is lightning fast seeing how slowly the wheels of that industry usually turn.

    The Govt would react to this decision - rather than proactively go about changing laws - as that can take forever and a day - and they dont have that long.

    Secondly if you (like I do) watch the Daily Politics show on the BBC - I have seen various political 'experts' on procedural process of the house of commons etc talking about what measures are at hand for the Govt to do this. I always thought that laws had to go first. second, third reading, then the green paper process before erc. But according to some boffins on there - there are a few options open to them - including one where it has to be completed in one day. It's NYE so I wont be googling it today.

  37. #37

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    Brexit means Brexit



    It's a pointless sound bite by a Prime Minister who appears to specialise in them. She doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as her predecessor was, but she does confirm a general impression that this Government isn't much cop and and would be in some trouble if the main opposition party was not a complete and utter shambles.
    She rarely says anything of real gravitas. The speech about Brexit being for everyone is quite typical of her utterances. Totally vacuous.

  38. #38

    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I dont know if you noticed - but the referendum result was a few months back and the court case not long afterwards - for things of a 'law' and politics' matter - this is lightning fast seeing how slowly the wheels of that industry usually turn.

    The Govt would react to this decision - rather than proactively go about changing laws - as that can take forever and a day - and they dont have that long.

    Secondly if you (like I do) watch the Daily Politics show on the BBC - I have seen various political 'experts' on procedural process of the house of commons etc talking about what measures are at hand for the Govt to do this. I always thought that laws had to go first. second, third reading, then the green paper process before erc. But according to some boffins on there - there are a few options open to them - including one where it has to be completed in one day. It's NYE so I wont be googling it today.
    It very interesting how the wheels of power have been set up isn't it.

  39. #39
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Gina Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    Brexit means Brexit
    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Yes, but what does that mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    It means that was what the majority of those that took part in the referendum voted for. Which was to leave the European Union
    Yes - that is what was on the ballot paper but it doesn't answer the question.

    Will the UK leave and adopt a Norway/Switzerland/Canada relationship with the EU? Will it follow some other model? Will we leave the EU and its institutions and have no trade, 'security', environmental.... agreements in place. Will Brexit be hard or soft? I hate the terms, but they do attempt to describe the range of relationships, agreements and treaties that could replace what we have now.

    The most annoying thing about 'Brexit means brexit' is that it means nothing. It is (as others have said on this thread) a vacuous soundbite. When challenged Brexiteers pile in to explain to simpletons like me what the vote really meant - and every one of them puts their own spin and interpretation on a ballot question that was deliberately open and vague, and produces mutually contradictory answers on both process and outcome. Most of them would be disasterous in my view - with the UK lunatics screwing up our asylum.

    Yes leave - but you can be out and yet still have ties to the EU like other non-EU states, and many on the leave side were advocating these alternative models during the campaign. Then a few campaigners for constitutional and legal clarity come along and get destroyed by the mainstream press and the alt squad for daring to say this is not as simple as 'Brexit means brexit'!
    there are fascists pretending to be humanitarians like cannibals on a healthkick eating only vegetarians (Roger McGough)

  40. #40

    Re: Gina Miller

    Forget the question on the ballot paper for a moment, as it boils down to this, if you want to be able to trade with whoever you want, you want to control who comes into your country, you dont want free movement of people and you want Parliament to be the sovereign body when it comes to Govt / laws etc - then you have no option than the default position of completely out of the EU - that is your starting point.

    And - seeing as the above is what people voted for - then the only option is we come out completely. The EU wont allow any country to control the free movement of people and the EU will not allow you to strike trade deals with other countries - so that means out of the single market and customs union.

    In my humble opinion if the EU went back to a pre maastright situation where you had to apply to go and work in another EU country etc - and you could be deported from that country if you were a naughty boy - then that may appease most people - but the EU will never go back to that as if anything they want to expand the EU to include Kosovo, Macedonia and the 3 other countries - all of who have massive unemployment problems.

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