+ Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 41

Thread: Neil wake up

  1. #1

    Neil wake up

    Oldie, loves my footy and the horses I do

  2. #2

    Re: Neil wake up

    he is being honest and makes some valid points ( if you are a premier league team )

    this one in a prime point ( if you are a premier league team )


    "Until they make it a Champions League place if they win the FA Cup, you're going to get that with all the bottom half of the Premier League teams."


    Of course lower Prem league teams need to get points to survive ( they see the cup as a distraction to that ) Top end championship teams need points for promotion to the pream league ( they see the cup as a distraction to that )

    its all about the money

  3. #3

    Re: Neil wake up

    Pick your battles.
    Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

  4. #4

    Re: Neil wake up

    You spelt his name wrong, it's Warnock not Wakeup

  5. #5

    Re: Neil wake up

    Warnock has basically admitted to feeling the same way as the majority of our fans, when it comes to the FA cup.
    The magic of it has gone, and will never come back.
    Greed and impatience has taken over, as it has in all walks of life. Our defeat, and the manner of it at Macclesfield a few seasons ago taught me that lesson.
    If your a "football romantic" like me, then the game is well and truly up!
    I would rather see the FA cup done away with,than see a champions league place up for grabs. We have all been carried away on a wave of false euphoria.
    Did I go yesterday? No. Why? Because I knew more or less what team NW would pick, and what the outcome would be.

  6. #6

    Re: Neil wake up

    I remember a time, when the FA Cup would be shown live on BBC AND ITV, with coverage on both channels usually beginning at about 10.30am in the morning. Cameras outside the teams' hotels and in-depth analysis of each player in the respective squads. I even used to ask myself which I would prefer ... the City getting promoted to the top-flight or winning the FA Cup?

    How times have changed, eh!

  7. #7

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five View Post
    I remember a time, when the FA Cup would be shown live on BBC AND ITV, with coverage on both channels usually beginning at about 10.30am in the morning. Cameras outside the teams' hotels and in-depth analysis of each player in the respective squads. I even used to ask myself which I would prefer ... the City getting promoted to the top-flight or winning the FA Cup?

    How times have changed, eh!
    I'd still rather see City win the FA cup than getting to the top flight.
    I've seen the latter happen and it was shit.

  8. #8

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bob Banker Spanker View Post
    I'd still rather see City win the FA cup than getting to the top flight.
    I've seen the latter happen and it was shit.
    The only reason me and my mates (all ST holders) didn't go yesterday was the time. I was pleased when we had a home draw, especially as the Christmas fixtures were not particularly kind to us, but as soon as BBC Wales ( who half the time can't even be bothered to show a report on us in their bulletins) got hold of the fixture that was enough for us.

  9. #9

    Re: Neil wake up

    Spot on Neil , anyway I just want to say in the league were in , not get to the quarters and get beat , the people we should be looking a are the barmy decision makers who put the game on at 11:30 on a bloody Sunday , I would and a few thousand others have gone if it has been played Saturday 3pm .

    He's right nothing wrong with our support 21k against Villa ,without large seat giveaways , speaks volumes ,and yes a great gam.

    I am awaiting the next Neil truth moment , up to know he seems to make sense about most things

  10. #10

    Re: Neil wake up

    The FA Cup competition has become a luxury only a few can afford. It's basically a contest for small clubs looking for a big payday, big clubs who can afford gamble on younger players doing the dirty work and other clubs with absolutely nothing else at stake. IMO, the only way to resurrect it is to offer full qualification to the Champions League.

  11. #11

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five View Post
    I remember a time, when the FA Cup would be shown live on BBC AND ITV, with coverage on both channels usually beginning at about 10.30am in the morning. Cameras outside the teams' hotels and in-depth analysis of each player in the respective squads. I even used to ask myself which I would prefer ... the City getting promoted to the top-flight or winning the FA Cup?

    How times have changed, eh!
    I used to think the same thing. Long time ago mind.

  12. #12

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    I used to think the same thing. Long time ago mind.
    Is the FA cup final a big deal in the U S A
    Oldie, loves my footy and the horses I do

  13. #13

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    Is the FA cup final a big deal in the U S A
    Not really. The respective fans of the two teams playing might be interested but I don't think the casual fan would be.

    But look what they get anyway. Empty stadiums or reserve teams. Not really that interesting to the armchair fan. Although, the main game or the 3pm GMT game at least was Sutton v AFC Wimbledon. Not sure how that went down. It was a pretty low quality affair but I enjoyed it. Then again, I'm a man in his 50s that used to follow a team all over the UK to watch 4th Division games.

    Is the FA Cup a big deal to younger fans?

  14. #14

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    ... IMO, the only way to resurrect it is to offer full qualification to the Champions League.
    ^^^this^^^

    Not sure how that could work apart from knocking one team off from their respective country's allocation and adding in their place the winner of their domestic cup.
    I'm sure that would appeal to every team competing in the competition, possibly apart from say 6 of your top clubs in the country.

    Didn't Warnock (or some other manager) say something like this defending his selection this weekend?

  15. #15

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUETIT View Post
    You spelt his name wrong, it's Warnock not Wakeup
    Excuse me while my sides split........

  16. #16

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by G rangetown Blue View Post
    Excuse me while my sides split........

  17. #17

    Re: Neil wake up

    Remember those days when football clubs of all levels used to enter Cup competitions with the aim of winning them? Some of them knew that there was little or no chance of it happening, but would try their hardest to ensure that it did. The people who followed these teams would dream that one day they could watch their side win a trophy at Wembley and when, as it inevitably would in most cases, their team came up short of that aim, they could at least know that it wasn't for the want of trying that they had failed.

    What, naive, innocent and gullible fools all concerned were back then! Fancy thinking that the distractions that are the FA and League Cups were worth trying to win, fancy thinking that they were competitions that deserved to be shown respect!

    It's incredible how people swallow all of the bollox managers come out with when they field their reserve teams for cup games and I find it embarrassing that, at a club where we all have such recent experience of what getting to a national Cup Final (twice!) can do for a City or Town's sense of pride and the lift it gives club, team and supporters, that there are people on here talking about how they don't want a Cup run because it would damage our hopes of staying up.

    I'm glad that I'm old enough to remember a time when far better City teams than this one used to play forty two league games a season, as many as they could in the FA and League Cups and played to win the Welsh Cup every season because that would earn them the privilege of playing in the European Cup Winners Cup for another season.

    In 1970/71 we played fifty eight competitive matches, as we missed out on promotion to the old First Division by three points, won the Welsh Cup and got to the last eight of the Cup Winner's Cup before bowing out to Real Madrid, but that's as nothing compared to the 67/68 side which played fifty nine such games as they won the Welsh Cup again and this time were only beaten in the Semi Finals in Europe by a last minute goal - they then went on to spend late May, all of June and early July playing fourteen games in Australia and New Zealand and all of this with the smaller first team squad that was the norm back then compared to what we see now.

    Since City were beaten by Liverpool in 2012, our record in and attitude towards Cup competitions has been disgraceful and where has all of this "we've got to concentrate on the television money - sorry, league!" attitude got us - with a worse team and a much lower league placing than we had ten years ago when we might have fielded the odd weakened side in the League Cup, but generally treated the FA Cup as a competition we were serious about.

    I may be in a minority of one, but I'm still angry about Sunday.
    Last edited by the other bob wilson; 10-01-17 at 08:37.

  18. #18
    International TH63's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Thornhill
    Posts
    11,751

    Re: Neil wake up

    TOBW - I too have fond memories of FA cup final morning and switching between ITV and BBC's non-stop pre-match shows - it's a cup final knockout, the road to wembley etc etc - all in the days when you had to get up and press a button on your TV to change over. We had three TV channels - BBC1, BBC2 and ITV and both BBC1 and ITV showed the game live, followed by highlights of the Scottish cup final if memory serves.

    There was also the "magic" of the cup - which of us "d'un certain age" will forget Ronnie Radford's goal for Hereford?
    Sadly that seems to have gone. There is not only a massive gulf between the Davids and the Goliaths, even if a David does beat a Goliath, it's usually because the beaten team bears little resemblance to the one that will play Man U the following week.

    Back in those days, the price of relegation was some different teams to play next season and maybe losing a player.

    Thanks to SKY money however, that's all changed and the price of failure/success is multi millions and potential oblivion for relegated teams.

    The demise of the FA cup is sad, but City's role in that demise is minuscule.

  19. #19

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Remember those days when football clubs of all levels used to enter Cup competitions with the aim of winning them? Some of them knew that there was little or no chance of it happening, but would try their hardest to ensure that it did. The people who followed these teams would dream that one day they could watch their side win a trophy at Wembley and when, as it inevitably would in most cases, their team came up short of that aim, they could at least know that it wasn't for the want of trying that they had failed.

    What, naive, innocent and gullible fools all concerned were back then! Fancy thinking that the distractions that are the FA and League Cups were worth trying to win, fancy thinking that they were competitions that deserved to be shown respect!

    It's incredible how people swallow all of the bollox managers come out with when they field their reserve teams for cup games and I find it embarrassing that, at a club where we all have such recent experience of what getting to a national Cup Final (twice!) can do for a City or Town's sense of pride and the lift it gives club, team and supporters, that there are people on here talking about how they don't want a Cup run because it would damage our hopes of staying up.

    I'm glad that I'm old enough to remember a time when far better City teams than this one used to play forty two league games a season, as many as they could in the FA and League Cups and played to win the Welsh Cup every season because that would earn them the privilege of playing in the European Cup Winners Cup for another season.

    In 1970/71 we played fifty eight competitive matches, as we missed out on promotion to the old First Division by three points, won the Welsh Cup and got to the last eight of the Cup Winner's Cup before bowing out to Real Madrid, but that's as nothing compared to the 67/68 side which played fifty nine such games as they won the Welsh Cup again and this time were only beaten in the Semi Finals in Europe by a last minute goal - they then went on to spend late May, all of June and early July playing fourteen games in Australia and New Zealand and all of this with the smaller first team squad that was the norm back then compared to what we see now.

    Since City were beaten by Liverpool in 2012, our record in and attitude towards Cup competitions has been disgraceful and where has all of this "we've got to concentrate on the television money - sorry, league!" attitude got us - with a worse team and a much lower league placing than we had ten years ago when we might have fielded the odd weakened side in the League Cup, but generally treated the FA Cup as a competition we were serious about.

    I may be in a minority of one, but I'm still angry about Sunday.
    All very touching Bob, and thanks for the trip down memory lane which I too am familiar with, but I don't believe you are that naive to believe that a cup run is more important than league consolidation, in our case survival.
    Even those cup runs you mention I would have traded for promotion from the third tier. Those days aren't that far away.

  20. #20

    Re: Neil wake up

    Weren't we lingering down the bottom third of the table when we mounted our cup run to the final back in 2007/08? I know we improved as we progressed in the cup run but I'm fairly sure we had a torrid first half of the season.

  21. #21

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bob Banker Spanker View Post
    Weren't we lingering down the bottom third of the table when we mounted our cup run to the final back in 2007/08? I know we improved as we progressed in the cup run but I'm fairly sure we had a torrid first half of the season.
    Yes we were - bottom three in November with plenty of calls for Dave Jones to be sacked.

  22. #22

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    All very touching Bob, and thanks for the trip down memory lane which I too am familiar with, but I don't believe you are that naive to believe that a cup run is more important than league consolidation, in our case survival.
    Even those cup runs you mention I would have traded for promotion from the third tier. Those days aren't that far away.
    What I don't get is why it has to be one out of a good cup run or staying up, I'm sure there have been some teams that managed both in the past.

    The only thing I would have traded for those two Cup Finals was promotion to the Premier League and, given the way that worked out, I think I might take another Cup Final appearance (provided we won!) over another promotion.

  23. #23

    Re: Neil wake up

    Sadly I think the Fa Cup has become almost nostalgic bit like watching Downton Abbey where folk look and say arrh wasn't it lovely back then ,.

    The competition has been eroded away by the game itself ,to a point where it doesn't sit on the top of a footy fans agenda , ticket prices play a part where families have to chose between going to the Villa league game or the Fulham one , and we know which one they picked on this occasion .

    We have to now endure a stupid kick off day / time , on a Friday night or Sunday morning , if it had kicked off on Saturday 3pm , 10k plus would have rocked up made more noise , and the players would have not felt they just on a training ground.

    Its life , things we treasure most just slip away , as we get older , replaced by poor imitations .
    Last edited by life on mars; 10-01-17 at 17:10.

  24. #24

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    What I don't get is why it has to be one out of a good cup run or staying up, I'm sure there have been some teams that managed both in the past.

    The only thing I would have traded for those two Cup Finals was promotion to the Premier League and, given the way that worked out, I think I might take another Cup Final appearance (provided we won!) over another promotion.
    I like your last bit... cake and eating

    Yes, we had a bad experience in the PL and I'm sure a lot of people share your view, myself included.
    However we are not talking about promotion to the PL here are we, we are talking about risking our Championship status and the very real possibility of demotion to the 3rd tier.

    You mention that teams in the past have managed a good cup run and staying up. Yes there have been I have no doubt about that, but I doubt many have been in the precarious, uncertain position of ourselves.

    I still remember one of the best and worse feelings I've ever had watching the City... winning in the playoff semi against Stoke away, and the loss at home a couple of days later.
    Looking back, I don't think it was the twist of fate that hurt the most, having done the hard bit away from home after playing champagne football and the way we gifted them their very late goal at NP, or that we missed out on a play off final, or even the fact that it was horrible Stoke we lost to.
    It was the thought that we just missed out on playing the Big Boys, the teams who would come down from the premiership and the teams that were premier teams in waiting with fantastic grounds and traditions. Playing these guys week in week out with the real dream of playing in the big time.
    It took quite a few years to get over that awful night, until rhe night of the QPR play off final in fact.

  25. #25

    Re: Neil wake up

    Honestly believe it's not going to be too long before teams start withdrawing from the competition through inconvenience.
    Blue Army

  26. #26

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    I like your last bit... cake and eating

    Yes, we had a bad experience in the PL and I'm sure a lot of people share your view, myself included.
    However we are not talking about promotion to the PL here are we, we are talking about risking our Championship status and the very real possibility of demotion to the 3rd tier.

    You mention that teams in the past have managed a good cup run and staying up. Yes there have been I have no doubt about that, but I doubt many have been in the precarious, uncertain position of ourselves.

    I still remember one of the best and worse feelings I've ever had watching the City... winning in the playoff semi against Stoke away, and the loss at home a couple of days later.
    Looking back, I don't think it was the twist of fate that hurt the most, having done the hard bit away from home after playing champagne football and the way we gifted them their very late goal at NP, or that we missed out on a play off final, or even the fact that it was horrible Stoke we lost to.
    It was the thought that we just missed out on playing the Big Boys, the teams who would come down from the premiership and the teams that were premier teams in waiting with fantastic grounds and traditions. Playing these guys week in week out with the real dream of playing in the big time.
    It took quite a few years to get over that awful night, until rhe night of the QPR play off final in fact.
    If saying that, having experienced the Premier League and not being too keen on a Stoke City like existence where, if we had established ourselves in that division, I would have in all likelihood, have welcomed a relegation struggle to break the monotony of wondering which position between eighth and twelfth we were going to finish in, I would probably prefer winning the FA or League Cups to more of the Premier League means I'm having my cake and eating it, then I plead guilty as charged.

    You implied you have been supporting City a long time, so I wonder when your attitude towards Cup competitions changed, because I refuse to believe that it was the same as it is now in, say, the eighties. My guess is that it was sometime around when you heard a manager trying to justify filling his team with reserve players for an FA or League Cup tie for the twentieth time - I'm as guilty of being brainwashed as anyone else at times, but not here because there was no footballing reason to justify fielding weakened teams in cup competitions thirty years ago and there still isn't now.

    The modern attitude towards Cup competitions is purely down to finance and, given the potential consequences of relegation from the Premier League when it comes to a club's balance sheet, I have a degree of sympathy for sides at that level who are in danger of going down if they decide that they do not want to risk injury to their best players in an FA Cup tie.

    However, I just don't get why any side below the top flight would act in the same way and, coming back to City, I think the attitude they have shown towards Cup competitions (i.e. almost hoping to be beaten) has been counter productive - certainly since our relegation three years ago.

    You say we are in a "precarious, uncertain position" and yet all I hear since the appointment of Neil Warnock is that we won't be relegated. As it it, I tend to agree with you - although we are slowly climbing the table and gradually putting more points between us and the bottom three, it wouldn't take a lot to see us dropping again and so, I say relegation is still a distinct possibility.

    Nevertheless, I think a run to, say, the Fifth Round with, possibly, a win that would send confidence levels among the team and supporters soaring (it could have been Cardiff v Swansea in Round Four if results had gone a different way) along the way, would make relegation less likely than it is after Sunday's miserable match and occasion which, for me at least, sucked away so much of the feelgood factor that had been around after the Villa win.

    One last thing, there was only a year between the Stoke Play Off defeat and us beating QPR at the Millennium Stadium.

  27. #27

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Yes we were - bottom three in November with plenty of calls for Dave Jones to be sacked.
    But we were mid table by the time the 3rd round of the FA Cup came around and we ended up missing the playoffs by 6 points.

  28. #28

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    But we were mid table by the time the 3rd round of the FA Cup came around and we ended up missing the playoffs by 6 points.
    So you're saying we would have reached the Play Offs without the cup run?

  29. #29

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Remember those days when football clubs of all levels used to enter Cup competitions with the aim of winning them? Some of them knew that there was little or no chance of it happening, but would try their hardest to ensure that it did. The people who followed these teams would dream that one day they could watch their side win a trophy at Wembley and when, as it inevitably would in most cases, their team came up short of that aim, they could at least know that it wasn't for the want of trying that they had failed.

    What, naive, innocent and gullible fools all concerned were back then! Fancy thinking that the distractions that are the FA and League Cups were worth trying to win, fancy thinking that they were competitions that deserved to be shown respect!

    It's incredible how people swallow all of the bollox managers come out with when they field their reserve teams for cup games and I find it embarrassing that, at a club where we all have such recent experience of what getting to a national Cup Final (twice!) can do for a City or Town's sense of pride and the lift it gives club, team and supporters, that there are people on here talking about how they don't want a Cup run because it would damage our hopes of staying up.

    I'm glad that I'm old enough to remember a time when far better City teams than this one used to play forty two league games a season, as many as they could in the FA and League Cups and played to win the Welsh Cup every season because that would earn them the privilege of playing in the European Cup Winners Cup for another season.

    In 1970/71 we played fifty eight competitive matches, as we missed out on promotion to the old First Division by three points, won the Welsh Cup and got to the last eight of the Cup Winner's Cup before bowing out to Real Madrid, but that's as nothing compared to the 67/68 side which played fifty nine such games as they won the Welsh Cup again and this time were only beaten in the Semi Finals in Europe by a last minute goal - they then went on to spend late May, all of June and early July playing fourteen games in Australia and New Zealand and all of this with the smaller first team squad that was the norm back then compared to what we see now.

    Since City were beaten by Liverpool in 2012, our record in and attitude towards Cup competitions has been disgraceful and where has all of this "we've got to concentrate on the television money - sorry, league!" attitude got us - with a worse team and a much lower league placing than we had ten years ago when we might have fielded the odd weakened side in the League Cup, but generally treated the FA Cup as a competition we were serious about.

    I may be in a minority of one, but I'm still angry about Sunday.
    No Bob , there are two of us . I feel cheated , by the club, by the manager and by the players.

    Part of my season ticket deal is it includes cup games, I accept we cant win them all but to be throwing them doesn't sit well with me.
    Every home game is 100 mile round trip for myself and my partner who is relatively new to CCFC, performances like Sunday at that ungodly hour, will drive people away from football.

    A potential Cardiff Swansea game would have given both clubs a lift and something to look forward to other than a relegation battle.
    Last edited by Jimmy the Jock; 11-01-17 at 08:06.

  30. #30

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock View Post
    No Bob , there are two of us . I feel cheated , by the club, by the manager and by the players.

    Part of my season ticket deal is it includes cup games, I accept we cant win them all but to be throwing them doesn't sit well with me.
    Every home game is 100 mile round trip for myself and my partner who is relatively new to CCFC, performances like Sunday at that ungodly hour, will drive people away from football.

    A potential Cardiff Swansea game would have given both clubs a lift and something to look forward to more than a relegation battle.
    Did it bother you both when we didn't try a leg against Macclesfield? The worst result in the clubs history?

  31. #31

    Re: Neil wake up

    How about giving 1 bonus league point for a win in the FA cup if you win the game? Like a bonus points system that's added for progression to the next round?
    That would make teams take it more serious

  32. #32

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by uncle bob View Post
    How about giving 1 bonus league point for a win in the FA cup if you win the game? Like a bonus points system that's added for progression to the next round?
    That would make teams take it more serious
    Probably because you could have a situation where Man Utd get to the final of the cup and win the league, despite having a worse record than Chelsea who got knocked out in round three?

    Something does need to be done but ultimately football has become all about money.

    The only solution is to offer greater financial reward - either through a champions league place or bigger prize money.

  33. #33

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Did it bother you both when we didn't try a leg against Macclesfield? The worst result in the clubs history?
    It wasnt as bad as Sunday in my eyes. I felt we were sucker punched rather than didnt care.

  34. #34

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock View Post
    It wasnt as bad as Sunday in my eyes. I felt we were sucker punched rather than didnt care.
    Fair comment. I must admit I was a bit surprised at Warnocks attitude towards it all.
    I might be in the minority here, but I'm a firm believer that you should play your strongest 11 available in all games. Surely it's all about keeping momentum going, or even getting momentum going. Plus I always thought the name of the game was to try to win trophys.
    Never been a fan of rotating. Never used to happen in "Ye Goode olde days"

  35. #35

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Fair comment. I must admit I was a bit surprised at Warnocks attitude towards it all.
    I might be in the minority here, but I'm a firm believer that you should play your strongest 11 available in all games. Surely it's all about keeping momentum going, or even getting momentum going. Plus I always thought the name of the game was to try to win trophys.
    Never been a fan of rotating. Never used to happen in "Ye Goode olde days"

  36. #36

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    So you're saying we would have reached the Play Offs without the cup run?
    Of course not. But it may have been a factor. There's no way of knowing.

  37. #37

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    ^^^this^^^

    Not sure how that could work apart from knocking one team off from their respective country's allocation and adding in their place the winner of their domestic cup.
    I'm sure that would appeal to every team competing in the competition, possibly apart from say 6 of your top clubs in the country.

    Didn't Warnock (or some other manager) say something like this defending his selection this weekend?
    exactly

    take the last prem league spot away, give it to the FA Cup winner, IF the FA Cup winner happens to have got a spot via the prem league, then the extra spot goes to the prem league, not the FA Cup

  38. #38

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    If saying that, having experienced the Premier League and not being too keen on a Stoke City like existence where, if we had established ourselves in that division, I would have in all likelihood, have welcomed a relegation struggle to break the monotony of wondering which position between eighth and twelfth we were going to finish in, I would probably prefer winning the FA or League Cups to more of the Premier League means I'm having my cake and eating it, then I plead guilty as charged.

    You implied you have been supporting City a long time, so I wonder when your attitude towards Cup competitions changed, because I refuse to believe that it was the same as it is now in, say, the eighties. My guess is that it was sometime around when you heard a manager trying to justify filling his team with reserve players for an FA or League Cup tie for the twentieth time - I'm as guilty of being brainwashed as anyone else at times, but not here because there was no footballing reason to justify fielding weakened teams in cup competitions thirty years ago and there still isn't now.

    The modern attitude towards Cup competitions is purely down to finance and, given the potential consequences of relegation from the Premier League when it comes to a club's balance sheet, I have a degree of sympathy for sides at that level who are in danger of going down if they decide that they do not want to risk injury to their best players in an FA Cup tie.

    However, I just don't get why any side below the top flight would act in the same way and, coming back to City, I think the attitude they have shown towards Cup competitions (i.e. almost hoping to be beaten) has been counter productive - certainly since our relegation three years ago.

    You say we are in a "precarious, uncertain position" and yet all I hear since the appointment of Neil Warnock is that we won't be relegated. As it it, I tend to agree with you - although we are slowly climbing the table and gradually putting more points between us and the bottom three, it wouldn't take a lot to see us dropping again and so, I say relegation is still a distinct possibility.

    Nevertheless, I think a run to, say, the Fifth Round with, possibly, a win that would send confidence levels among the team and supporters soaring (it could have been Cardiff v Swansea in Round Four if results had gone a different way) along the way, would make relegation less likely than it is after Sunday's miserable match and occasion which, for me at least, sucked away so much of the feelgood factor that had been around after the Villa win.

    One last thing, there was only a year between the Stoke Play Off defeat and us beating QPR at the Millennium Stadium.
    I am not sure you read my quasi-lighthearted thread "All in all... a good day out" but if you did you would realise my tone and the reasons for it regarding Sundays game and as I said in it, I didn't really want to debate it in any detail, for one thing I don't have the time but also because I've learned it best not to take watching City too seriously for health reasons.
    However, seeing as you have put the time in with feeling then it is only right I should reciprocate.

    It is fair to say that my views don't differ hugely from yours except from the fact that I have accepted that the game has moved on from those eighties you allude to and accepted the reasons that money has changed attitudes to the things we have always held dear, i.e. the domestic cups.
    It's a fact that mediocre players are earning a fortune and don't seem too bothered whether they even play, let alone win!

    Your main beef (I think!) is that we fielded a weaker team but I'm not so sure NW did.
    Most played the week before in a tough match against Villa with the exceptions of Huws and Halford who he needed to have a look at for the run in, plus Richards and Lambert who not long ago people were praising.
    Truth is NW WARNOCK HAS A JOB TO DO. TO KEEP US UP (WITH SOME LITTLE ADDITIONAL TASK OF GETTING MONEY FOR THE DROSS AND STRENGTHENING THE SQUAD WITH THAT CASH).
    I SUSPECT HE DIDN'T REALISE HOW TOUGH A JOB HE WAS TAKING ON, whether it be the lack of quality or for some reason them not willing to pull in the same direction... he still has work to do!
    Our exit from the cup is not solely down to NW playing a bunch of seconds.
    It's much more complicated than that.

    Also, my apologies for yet another faux pas :homer:. Of course it was a year later (for 'years' read 'months' or '46 games') but my point for that time is clear.
    The Championship was/is Big time, League 1 was/is nowhere.
    Following the Stoke S/F playoff game, the reality is we would still be in the wilderness (where mighty Sheffield United have been for some time!).

    I also take your point about a winning team, feelgood factor and confidence but a run in the cup can also be an unwelcome distraction as Wigan, Portsmouth among others, will testify.

    P.S. Sorry about the Caps lock!

  39. #39

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Fair comment. I must admit I was a bit surprised at Warnocks attitude towards it all.
    I might be in the minority here, but I'm a firm believer that you should play your strongest 11 available in all games. Surely it's all about keeping momentum going, or even getting momentum going. Plus I always thought the name of the game was to try to win trophys.
    Never been a fan of rotating. Never used to happen in "Ye Goode olde days"
    You mean these days...
    https://youtu.be/y4CXY6TVBMc

  40. #40

    Re: Neil wake up

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    I am not sure you read my quasi-lighthearted thread "All in all... a good day out" but if you did you would realise my tone and the reasons for it regarding Sundays game and as I said in it, I didn't really want to debate it in any detail, for one thing I don't have the time but also because I've learned it best not to take watching City too seriously for health reasons.
    However, seeing as you have put the time in with feeling then it is only right I should reciprocate.

    It is fair to say that my views don't differ hugely from yours except from the fact that I have accepted that the game has moved on from those eighties you allude to and accepted the reasons that money has changed attitudes to the things we have always held dear, i.e. the domestic cups.
    It's a fact that mediocre players are earning a fortune and don't seem too bothered whether they even play, let alone win!

    Your main beef (I think!) is that we fielded a weaker team but I'm not so sure NW did.
    Most played the week before in a tough match against Villa with the exceptions of Huws and Halford who he needed to have a look at for the run in, plus Richards and Lambert who not long ago people were praising.
    Truth is NW WARNOCK HAS A JOB TO DO. TO KEEP US UP (WITH SOME LITTLE ADDITIONAL TASK OF GETTING MONEY FOR THE DROSS AND STRENGTHENING THE SQUAD WITH THAT CASH).
    I SUSPECT HE DIDN'T REALISE HOW TOUGH A JOB HE WAS TAKING ON, whether it be the lack of quality or for some reason them not willing to pull in the same direction... he still has work to do!
    Our exit from the cup is not solely down to NW playing a bunch of seconds.
    It's much more complicated than that.

    Also, my apologies for yet another faux pas :homer:. Of course it was a year later (for 'years' read 'months' or '46 games') but my point for that time is clear.
    The Championship was/is Big time, League 1 was/is nowhere.
    Following the Stoke S/F playoff game, the reality is we would still be in the wilderness (where mighty Sheffield United have been for some time!).

    I also take your point about a winning team, feelgood factor and confidence but a run in the cup can also be an unwelcome distraction as Wigan, Portsmouth among others, will testify.

    P.S. Sorry about the Caps lock!
    I was wondering what that was all about .

    Regarding the bit I've highlighted - apologies to him if I've got this wrong, but I'm fairly sure I heard Warnock say that the missing players would have been available if we had been playing the wurzels on Sunday. Also, I'd say that, although our weakened team formed part of the reason for it, my "main beef" was more to do with City's attitude to cup competitions in the five years following our League Cup Final appearance and the way so many of our fans are happy to accept what I wouldn't say is a let's hope we lose attitude on their behalf, but it's not far short of one.

    Here's a scenario for you, say it had been Cardiff v Swansea on Sunday and the BBC had insisted on a 10.30 am kick off for television coverage, what do you reckon the crowd would have been? Also, say we had fielded the sort of side we did against Fulham, while the jacks picked their strongest team and ended up winning 3-0, what do you think the reaction would have been like on here, on other social media sites and in the local media?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •