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Thread: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

  1. #41
    International Vimana.'s Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I'd agree, in an ideal world then it should be facts or nothing. But I can't help but feel Trump is getting a taste of his own medicine. There was very little 'put up or shut up' from his team or Breitbart et al during the campaign.
    Absolutely! Though 'he' was not, and is not, alone in that, but 'he' certainly helped 'himself' to Trump-size dollops of it to chuck about.

    I suspect 'he' will be whining a lot more about it in the very near future.

  2. #42
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    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    When did these rumours start? I ask only because I heard a similar allegation in an American comedy broadcast I heard that was recorded last Wednesday.

    It's highlighted within Wales-Bales' links posted earlier in the thread.

    Started seeping out very early yesterday morning.
    Allegedly/supposedly the US security had been warned about the existence of such material since last October.
    The summary on Trump's misdemeanours which also details the incident carries you refer to carries a date of June 2016, though of course that may very well be more complete bollocks.

  3. #43

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    It is all bollocks Vim. If you look at the trail a 'source' at MI6 gets a dossier from allegedly a Russian 'source' and then hands it over to 'sources' in the US - one of which was John McCain (Republican) who then does the 'necessary' with it and it just so happens to get leaked out.

    Tell me where in that chain of events could there be someone somewhere who created the dodgy dossier or even the dodgy 'secret sources' - they'll be telling us next that there are WMD in Trump towers, Trump is really a secret agent for North Korea or perhaps is hair is now radio active

  4. #44
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    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    It is all bollocks Vim. If you look at the trail a 'source' at MI6 gets a dossier from allegedly a Russian 'source' and then hands it over to 'sources' in the US - one of which was John McCain (Republican) who then does the 'necessary' with it and it just so happens to get leaked out.

    Tell me where in that chain of events could there be someone somewhere who created the dodgy dossier or even the dodgy 'secret sources' - they'll be telling us next that there are WMD in Trump towers, Trump is really a secret agent for North Korea or perhaps is hair is now radio active
    ..ya heard it here first.

    I'm sure it is a bollocks-fest. Who'd recognise or believe any tarnished slivers truth amongst it all now anyway. And maybe that's the idea.
    Just incredible how nakedly ridiculous things have got.

  5. #45

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    ..ya heard it here first.

    I'm sure it is a bollocks-fest. Who'd recognise or believe any tarnished slivers truth amongst it all now anyway. And maybe that's the idea.
    Just incredible how nakedly ridiculous things have got.
    This is the beauty of it all. Absolutely everything can now be called 'fake news'. Nobody can be surea bout anything.

    Only thing the big cheeses have to do is make sure they're not hoisted with their own petard...

  6. #46

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    This is the beauty of it all. Absolutely everything can now be called 'fake news'. Nobody can be surea bout anything.

    Only thing the big cheeses have to do is make sure they're not hoisted with their own petard...
    Fake news is not new, it goes back thousands of years!

  7. #47
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    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Fake news is not new, it goes back thousands of years!
    The platforms, the immediacy, the distribution, the methods, the infrastructure that they/we have now - stepped it up into a whole new ball game.

  8. #48

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Fake news is not new, it goes back thousands of years!
    Of course, but it wasn't such a 'thing' even a couple of years ago.

  9. #49

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    The platforms, the immediacy, the distribution, the methods, the infrastructure that they/we have now - stepped it up into a whole new ball game.
    In the past fake news was presented as ideas or stories which nobody questioned, but now with the free flow of information people have wised up, and now we are at the stage where fake news can be presented as being real, and real news can be presented as being fake. So the solution is to basically take us back to stories and ideas again, where the information is secondary, and all that matters is people believe that official news is real, and everything else is fake. This is the oldest trick in the book.
    Last edited by Wales-Bales; 12-01-17 at 12:39.

  10. #50

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    This is the beauty of it all. Absolutely everything can now be called 'fake news'. Nobody can be surea bout anything.

    Only thing the big cheeses have to do is make sure they're not hoisted with their own petard...
    Exactly.

    This takes me back to the question I asked in the thread title "Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?" which has not really been answered by anyone yet. It seems some think the claims are fake news because Donald Trump says it is - would they be as quick to believe other politicians if they dismissed lurid allegations about themselves as fake news?

  11. #51
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    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    In the past fake news was presented as ideas or stories which nobody questioned, but now with the free flow of information people have wised up, and now we are at the stage where fake news can be presented as being real, and real news can be presented as being fake. So the solution is to basically take us back to stories and ideas again, where the information is secondary, and all that matters is people believe that official news is real, and everything else is fake. This is the oldest trick in the book.
    Who decides what is fake news?
    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...2#.WHeeFlOLSM8
    'It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled'

  12. #52

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Exactly.

    This takes me back to the question I asked in the thread title "Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?" which has not really been answered by anyone yet. It seems some think the claims are fake news because Donald Trump says it is - would they be as quick to believe other politicians if they dismissed lurid allegations about themselves as fake news?
    If you are a very famous person like Trump then you can't have anything to do with prostitutes. You might as well put an advert in the papers. I know that some British politicians have been caught with them recently but the average person the street would only be able to recognise a handful of our politicians.

  13. #53

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Exactly.

    This takes me back to the question I asked in the thread title "Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?" which has not really been answered by anyone yet. It seems some think the claims are fake news because Donald Trump says it is - would they be as quick to believe other politicians if they dismissed lurid allegations about themselves as fake news?
    I do believe most news outlets refused to touch this story because all aspects were unverifiable, i.e. a load of tosh. However, it seems there was some kind of game in play involving McCain, CIA, CNN and Buzzfeed. The timing was also suspect, coming the evening before a major press conference. If the plan was to damage Trump, then it has backfired horribly.

  14. #54
    International Vimana.'s Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    ^^ Do you really think that it/the plan 'backfired horribly ? I'm not sure. Do you see 'Trump' gaining more, staying robust, or losing some of 'his' supporters following this?
    I'd be surprised if that is the end of this one.

    But The Donald is on it now: "President-elect Donald Trump has picked former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani to form a team of private sector cybersecurity experts".
    Last edited by Vimana.; 12-01-17 at 19:02.

  15. #55

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    ^^ Do you really think that it/the plan 'backfired horribly ? I'm not sure. Do you see 'Trump' gaining more, staying robust, or losing some of 'his' supporters following this?
    I'd be surprised if that is the end of this one.

    But The Donald is on it now: "President-elect Donald Trump has picked former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani to form a team of private sector cybersecurity experts".
    It certainly made his press conference a lot easier and enhanced his outsider credentials. In fact, it's all too perfect, it's like everybody was reading from a (bad) script. Even the spat with the CNN guy seemed rehearsed

  16. #56

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    I suppose that any man who tells us he gets his way with women by grabbing them by the pussy probably doesn't need to use prostitutes.

    Let's say that there is this Fabian Society derived Liberal Elite that really runs things and is as greedy and corrupt as is claimed, then obviously they need to be brought down as soon as possible. To quote Bonnie Tyler, we need a hero to lead the "civilised" world back from the path it has been on, someone who embodies all of the things that the Clintons and Blairs of this world do not. So, who do we choose to lead this return to a more honest and better society? We choose a reality TV star who only seems to be able to campaign by attacking virtually anyone who isn't a white male of a certain age, a so called outsider who has the same dubious moral and business standards as Bill Clinton does, who has laid off people in his business empire without a second thought when his wealth was threatened - I just don't see the attraction for voters in such a man or why he gets second, third, fourth, fifth etc. etc. chances from so many that they would never give to others.
    Last edited by the other bob wilson; 13-01-17 at 06:43.

  17. #57

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    It certainly made his press conference a lot easier and enhanced his outsider credentials. In fact, it's all too perfect, it's like everybody was reading from a (bad) script. Even the spat with the CNN guy seemed rehearsed
    You've been telling us for ages that he hates and mistrusts MSM. All of a sudden they're scripting and rehearsing together???


  18. #58

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    You've been telling us for ages that he hates and mistrusts MSM. All of a sudden they're scripting and rehearsing together???

    you couldn't make it up could you
    Green Bay Wisconsin Title town USA

  19. #59

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    you couldn't make it up could you
    Easy to tell when gluey is running out of steam. We get the it's all scripted, everything has been planned for months, etc lines.

  20. #60

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    You've been telling us for ages that he hates and mistrusts MSM. All of a sudden they're scripting and rehearsing together???

    I said that's what it looks like, cos the narrative seems like it's come from a HBO drama series, but I never said it's really happening that way!

  21. #61

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    you couldn't make it up could you
    Ah, it's the fella with all the opinions, I was wondering when you would show up

  22. #62
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    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Exactly.

    This takes me back to the question I asked in the thread title "Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?" which has not really been answered by anyone yet. It seems some think the claims are fake news because Donald Trump says it is - would they be as quick to believe other politicians if they dismissed lurid allegations about themselves as fake news?
    I do not believe Trump. He is a serial liar, fantasist, and ego-maniac.

    I have no more information or insight into the dossier than anyone else, but I do not believe a single word from Trump. It is all a performance from him with the sole purpose of promoting The Donald. He could be guilty of anything. He continually contradicts himself, invents stories, defends the indefensible, abuses and corrupts what few remaining standards were in place for public debate. In the midst of a storm of fake news, my gut feeling is that these allegations are true.
    there are fascists pretending to be humanitarians like cannibals on a healthkick eating only vegetarians (Roger McGough)

  23. #63

    Re: Do you believe Trump and, if you do, why do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I do not believe Trump. He is a serial liar, fantasist, and ego-maniac.

    I have no more information or insight into the dossier than anyone else, but I do not believe a single word from Trump. It is all a performance from him with the sole purpose of promoting The Donald. He could be guilty of anything. He continually contradicts himself, invents stories, defends the indefensible, abuses and corrupts what few remaining standards were in place for public debate. In the midst of a storm of fake news, my gut feeling is that these allegations are true.
    So everything in the dossier in true then?

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