The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

[LordKenwyne]

Gert Wilders:

Paddy Power
PVV (Geert Wilders) 2/9
VVD (Mark Rutte) 3/1
CDA (Sybrand can Haersma Buma) 25/1
PvdA (Diederik Samsom) 50/1

You've got to take polls, bookies and generally anyone commenting on politics with a pinch of salt currently. But those odds are pretty big.

His plan, according to the BBC:

"De-Islamising the Netherlands" - no more immigrants or asylum seekers from Muslim countries

No Islamic headscarves in public functions; ban on Islamic expressions that violate public order

Ban on Koran, closure of mosques and Islamic schools

Dutch exit from EU

Deport criminals with dual nationality

Lower income tax, pension age at 65, cuts in elderly care, home care

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38891753

Good lordy. A month or so till it begins.

[lardy]

I was talking to a KLM air steward last week. She's Dutch and is based in Amsterdam but is married to an Englishman who owns a shop in Southampton. I would have thought that Brexit would have caused them all sorts of bother but she was very excited about it and wanted 'Nexit' to come next.

[Rjk]

He looks like getting the most seats, but very unlikely to be in power as none of the traditional parties would dare go into coalition with him.

[Wales-Bales]

Majority in Leading EU Nations Support Trump-Style Travel Ban

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eur...n-poll-n718271

[life on mars]

Majority in Leading EU Nations Support Trump-Style Travel Ban

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eur...n-poll-n718271

We should organise a march

[Eric Cartman]

Really !!

15 years ago, Halal meat production was seen as abhorrent, now it is in the mainstream of meat used in the UK.

I remember listening to arguments on the radio about 5 years ago between a Muslim and a vicar. The vicar didn't get a chance to express himself and the Muslim just bullied his way through the programme.

Those who have an aggressively Muslim agenda will push their beliefs, values, cultures and way of life onto the apathetic and those who do not defend themselves as aggressively back.

The only problem is that anyone who dares to defend 'our' beliefs, values, cultures and way of life will be termed a racist, Islamophobe, Nazi, neo Nazi, EDL, BNP or any other perceived derogatory term.

Omg a vicar got talked over by a Muslim on a radio debate 5 years ago? Well that changes everything for me.

How many of the Muslim MP's have an 'aggressively Muslim agenda'?

https://fullfact.org/news/stunned-sl...-meat-sold-uk/

[Rjk]

These kind of predictions always seem to assume that every future generation of Muslims don't take on any of the culture or values that they have been born into or lived throughout their lives.
Western culture is incredibly pervasive, within a couple of generations the kids of these hoardes of immigrants you describe will be more Dutch than steve McLaren visiting the van Gogh museum while drinking a grolsch.

[David Vincent]

These kind of predictions always seem to assume that every future generation of Muslims don't take on any of the culture or values that they have been born into or lived throughout their lives.
Western culture is incredibly pervasive, within a couple of generations the kids of these hoardes of immigrants you describe will be more Dutch than steve McLaren visiting the van Gogh museum while drinking a grolsch.

I hope this doesn't sound rude but are you on crack? All the data suggests that second and third generation Muslim immigrants are more radical than their parents. There will be no Van Gogh Museum for anyone to visit. The building will be a mosque.

[lardy]

I hope this doesn't sound rude but are you on crack? All the data suggests that second and third generation Muslim immigrants are more radical than their parents. There will be no Van Gogh Museum for anyone to visit. The building will be a mosque.

Link?

[David Vincent]

Link?

If I gave you one, two or twenty links you would say there are millions of Muslims and those surveys only provide a small sample. If I sent a survey out to every Muslim in the world you would tell me you can't use those results because some people didn't reply. You can't face the truth. Islam is our future.

Ok, here's a link to a Pew Research Center survey. But a minute's searching will give you plenty of similar links.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/p...-and-american/

[lardy]

If I gave you one, two or twenty links you would say there are millions of Muslims and those surveys only provide a small sample. If I sent a survey out to every Muslim in the world you would tell me you can't use those results because some people didn't reply. You can't face the truth. Islam is our future.

Ok, here's a link to a Pew Research Center survey. But a minute's searching will give you plenty of similar links.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/p...-and-american/

Firstly, thank you for telling me what I will or won't say. I guess that will save you the bother of reading my reply.

Interesting link. The important part in terms of our debate, perhaps, is this:

"This trend was picked up by Pew pollsters who reported in 2007 that Muslims older than 30 were much less likely (28 percent) than those aged 18-29 (42 percent) to agree that “there is a natural conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society.” When it surveyed Muslims again in 2011, Pew asked if “there is only one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam”: 31 percent of foreign-born Muslims agreed, but 46 percent of native-born Muslims did. Also that year, Pew found that 58 percent of foreign-born Muslims agreed “the American people are generally friendly toward Muslim Americans,” compared with only 37 percent of their native-born offspring."

The thing that jumps out at me is that the question is asking about how they think devout Muslims feel. We'd need to know how many said they considered themselves to be a devout Muslim. Is that higher for second or third generations than first generations?

[Pearcey3]

Thank you for your erudite response. Are you perhaps a lecturer in demographics at one of our more prestigious universities?

The Netherlands will be an Islamic country. Even if Muslims are not the majority population they are so well organised that they will be able to take political control of the country. In every city in the UK the local Muslims are attempting to take over the local parties by signing up ghost members who push to get their coreligionists elected as councillors and MPs. It is the same all over Europe. Muslims can get thousands of demonstrators on the streets of any town or city in Europe in half an hour. A country full of disconnected individuals will be no match for a such a well organised and goal oriented group who are willing to die for their cause.

In addition to the higher Muslim birth rate of Dutch Muslims you will have an enormous amount of immigration and you will have conversions. The interesting thing about conversions is that it is the people at the top and their relatives who will be converting first because they know which way the wind is blowing. These top people will then use their influence to speed up Islamisation.

My response was a damn sight more erudite than your bullshit. The Netherlands has a current Muslim population of 6%. It is calculated that the Muslim population in Western Eurpe increases by 1% every decade. So in say 40 years time or two generations from now the Muslim population in the Netherlands will be around 10%. Just to be clear you originally stated that the Netherlands wil be an Islamic country in two generations.

Stop deliberately exaggerating and distorting the truth.

[David Vincent]

My response was a damn sight more erudite than your bullshit. The Netherlands has a current Muslim population of 6%. It is calculated that the Muslim population in Western Eurpe increases by 1% every decade. So in say 40 years time or two generations from now the Muslim population in the Netherlands will be around 10%. Just to be clear you originally stated that the Netherlands wil be an Islamic country in two generations.

Stop deliberately exaggerating and distorting the truth.

Thank you for putting my mind at rest. You say it has been calculated that the Muslim population only increases by 1% every ten years. If that's the case then the takeover is a long time off. But hold on. It says in this link that the Muslim population of the UK increased by 75% between 2001 and 2011. Either you've been telling deliberate fibs or you are about as numerate as the average tadpole.

https://www.rt.com/uk/231675-muslim-...tion-rises-1m/

[lardy]

Thank you for putting my mind at rest. You say it has been calculated that the Muslim population only increases by 1% every ten years. If that's the case then the takeover is a long time off. But hold on. It says in this link that the Muslim population of the UK increased by 75% between 2001 and 2011. Either you've been telling deliberate fibs or you are about as numerate as the average tadpole.

https://www.rt.com/uk/231675-muslim-...tion-rises-1m/

Pearcey's percentage refers to the proportion of the population as a whole.

Your percentage refers to the difference between two numbers.

They're two different statistics. Even a tadpole would realise that.

[David Vincent]

Pearcey's percentage refers to the proportion of the population as a whole.

Your percentage refers to the difference between two numbers.

They're two different statistics. Even a tadpole would realise that.

If he meant the Muslim proportion of the population rather than the Muslim population increases by 1% every decade then he should have written that. Why should I assume that he didn't mean what he wrote? I only give the benefit of the doubt to people who I think know what they are talking about and he is not in that group - and neither are you for that matter. Anyway he is still wrong. On top of the higher Muslim birth rate you will have an enormous amount of Muslim immigration and then you will have hundreds of thousands and later millions converting to Islam. The enormous growth in the Muslim population in Europe between 2001 and 2011 will dwarfed by the 2011-2021 figure. Just wait until these Soros migrants bring their relatives and friends over.

[Pearcey3]

Vincent. You are just a troll. My previous post made very clear that it was in relation to the entire population and had you bothered to do some checking you would have realised that anyway. It clearly has to be spelt out to you for there to be a basic understanding. You were clearly unable to work out that a specific rise in the Muslim population only resulted in a very small rise in tbe overall percentage of Muslims living in Western Europe.

Now instesd of all the scaremongering please prove just one report which states the Netherlands will be under Islamist control in two generations time. Just one report only is required.

[lardy]

If he meant the Muslim proportion of the population rather than the Muslim population increases by 1% every decade then he should have written that. Why should I assume that he didn't mean what he wrote? I only give the benefit of the doubt to people who I think know what they are talking about and he is not in that group - and neither are you for that matter. Anyway he is still wrong. On top of the higher Muslim birth rate you will have an enormous amount of Muslim immigration and then you will have hundreds of thousands and later millions converting to Islam. The enormous growth in the Muslim population in Europe between 2001 and 2011 will dwarfed by the 2011-2021 figure. Just wait until these Soros migrants bring their relatives and friends over.

feck me

The conversation which you started is about the proportion as a whole. It shouldn't need to be pointed out every time.

Your percentage increase is meaningless in this conversation. For example, going from 5 to 5,000 is a huge percentage increase but in a country of 10 million it's tiny. That on its own tells you nothing.

Good point about birth rates...but, erm, Pearcey's number already accounts for that.

Please reply again, this is gold

[Pearcey3]

Gentleman. Simple referencing on sites like The Pew Center of Research (American) and wikipedia gives a very clear indication of trends in recent decades. To suggest the Netherlands will be an Islamic country in two generations is moronic.As I say the aversge rate of growth is 1% per decade in Western Europe.

[jon1959]

I thought everyone accepted the Netherlands will be 57% Jedi Knight in 2 generations.

[Pearcey3]

Thank you for putting my mind at rest. You say it has been calculated that the Muslim population only increases by 1% every ten years. If that's the case then the takeover is a long time off. But hold on. It says in this link that the Muslim population of the UK increased by 75% between 2001 and 2011. Either you've been telling deliberate fibs or you are about as numerate as the average tadpole.

https://www.rt.com/uk/231675-muslim-...tion-rises-1m/

Christ you are thick. Those figures you present suggest that the Muslim population in England and Wales has increased from about 3% in 2001 to about 5% in 2011 of the overall population. So a 2% rise in a decade as opposed to the average 1% increase across Western Europe. Well done.
Now tell me what happened to immigration into the Netherlands during this period and have the decency to admit you were hopelessly wrong.

[Pearcey3]

Pearcey's percentage refers to the proportion of the population as a whole.

Your percentage refers to the difference between two numbers.

They're two different statistics. Even a tadpole would realise that.

Bless. He hasn't managed to work that out yet.

[severncity]

This table shows the Muslim population of the UK as recorded in the last six censuses.

IMG_0221.jpg

The figures for the censuses prior to 2011 have been rounded up but they are approximately correct.

Here's an interesting document from the Muslim Council of Britain.

https://www.mcb.org.uk/wp-content/up...eport_2015.pdf

IF the trend (of the last 36 years, since 1981) in the growth of the population of UK Muslims continues - increasing by about 75% every 10 years - then there will be around 7.5 million in 2031, 13 million in 2041 and 22 million in 2051.

[the other bob wilson]

This table shows the Muslim population of the UK as recorded in the last six censuses.

IMG_0221.jpg

The figures for the censuses prior to 2011 have been rounded up but they are approximately correct.

Here's an interesting document from the Muslim Council of Britain.

https://www.mcb.org.uk/wp-content/up...eport_2015.pdf

IF the trend (of the last 36 years, since 1981) in the growth of the population of UK Muslims continues - increasing by about 75% every 10 years - then there will be around 7.5 million in 2031, 13 million in 2041 and 22 million in 2051.

Aaargh, run for the hills!

[Rjk]

This table shows the Muslim population of the UK as recorded in the last six censuses.

IMG_0221.jpg

The figures for the censuses prior to 2011 have been rounded up but they are approximately correct.

Here's an interesting document from the Muslim Council of Britain.

https://www.mcb.org.uk/wp-content/up...eport_2015.pdf

IF the trend (of the last 36 years, since 1981) in the growth of the population of UK Muslims continues - increasing by about 75% every 10 years - then there will be around 7.5 million in 2031, 13 million in 2041 and 22 million in 2051.

By this calculation in 1961 0.01% of the global Muslim population lived in the UK.
Today it is around 0.16% and using your predictions for 2050 it'll be around 0.8%

If that continues then in another 70 years or so 100% of the global Muslim population will live in the UK.
Your descendents will have to move to the recently vacated Dubai

[the other bob wilson]

I'm just imagining what certain people must have been saying back in the 60s and 70s when the rate of increase in the Muslim population was a lot higher than it has been since 1981.

Also, assuming I've remembered how to calculate percentages properly, 75% is a bit on the generous side for a rate of increase every ten years since 1981 - maybe I've got it wrong, but I don't think it hit that figure in any of the decades between Censuses in the past thirty six years.

I agree that was an interesting document you posted the link to - thanks.