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Thread: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

  1. #1

    The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Gert Wilders:

    Paddy Power
    PVV (Geert Wilders) 2/9
    VVD (Mark Rutte) 3/1
    CDA (Sybrand can Haersma Buma) 25/1
    PvdA (Diederik Samsom) 50/1


    You've got to take polls, bookies and generally anyone commenting on politics with a pinch of salt currently. But those odds are pretty big.

    His plan, according to the BBC:

    "De-Islamising the Netherlands" - no more immigrants or asylum seekers from Muslim countries

    No Islamic headscarves in public functions; ban on Islamic expressions that violate public order

    Ban on Koran, closure of mosques and Islamic schools

    Dutch exit from EU

    Deport criminals with dual nationality

    Lower income tax, pension age at 65, cuts in elderly care, home care


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38891753

    Good lordy. A month or so till it begins.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 08-02-17 at 10:07.

  2. #2

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    I was talking to a KLM air steward last week. She's Dutch and is based in Amsterdam but is married to an Englishman who owns a shop in Southampton. I would have thought that Brexit would have caused them all sorts of bother but she was very excited about it and wanted 'Nexit' to come next.

  3. #3
    Blue in the Face
    Guest

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    He wont be able to do any of that until after the Dutch leave the EU I think. Geert Wilders - I dont think will win - based on the belief that most Dutch wouldn't vote to leave the EU
    You're right about not being able to legislate. Can I ask why you think think Dutch would be less Euro-sceptical than the Brits? It's not a subject I know a great deal on at all. One reason might be that with Britain being almost an island, it makes it much easier to even propose ambitious ideals about controlling it's borders.

    I'm extremely sceptical that the Islamophobia stuff would gain more votes than it would lose. Which makes me extremely sceptical as to how organic a lot of these far right wing movements are. Surely it would make much more sense to fight the Nexit battle on a more moderate intellectual battleground with issues like, I dunno, democracy?

    This is all setting it self up nicely for the Dutch to become social justice warrior heroes at the ballot box and get some global heroic attention in reaction to Trump and the Brits.

  4. #4

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    You're right about not being able to legislate. Can I ask why you think think Dutch would be less Euro-sceptical than the Brits? It's not a subject I know a great deal on at all. One reason might be that with Britain being almost an island, it makes it much easier to even propose ambitious ideals about controlling it's borders.

    I'm extremely sceptical that the Islamophobia stuff would gain more votes than it would lose. Which makes me extremely sceptical as to how organic a lot of these far right wing movements are. Surely it would make much more sense to fight the Nexit battle on a more moderate intellectual battleground with issues like, I dunno, democracy?

    This is all setting it self up nicely for the Dutch to become social justice warrior heroes at the ballot box and get some global heroic attention in reaction to Trump and the Brits.
    Banning Quran's will give no one, absolutely no one a feeling of safety.

    If the BBC are reporting on this accurately I don't think he will win. Saying that, they list basically none of the policies that may improve dutch lives. So you can see how they're selling it already.

    Not everyone in Holland will be that far right surely?.

  5. #5

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    He looks like getting the most seats, but very unlikely to be in power as none of the traditional parties would dare go into coalition with him.

  6. #6

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    He wont be able to do any of that until after the Dutch leave the EU I think. Geert Wilders - I dont think will win - based on the belief that most Dutch wouldn't vote to leave the EU
    I see. I forgot about that. But surely him winning would be a more radical event. If he wins then nothing is off the table!.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I was talking to a KLM air steward last week. She's Dutch and is based in Amsterdam but is married to an Englishman who owns a shop in Southampton. I would have thought that Brexit would have caused them all sorts of bother but she was very excited about it and wanted 'Nexit' to come next.
    The people I work for export and I don't think they really care about the risks

  7. #7

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Whoever wins it doesn't matter. The Netherlands will be an Islamic country in a couple of generations. If you are an art lover you should be worried. Pictures of people are not allowed in Islam. They will go into all the great art museums and destroy all the masterpieces if they are still there. It wasn't too long when Van Gogh's great nephew was butchered on the streets of Amsterdam. The killer said in his defence that "in the fight of the believers against the infidels, violence is approved by the prophet Muhammad."

    There is actually a portrait of Theo Van Gogh's killer in a Dutch museum. The "artist" is well known for her ugly portrait of an old white woman entitled "The white disease". The killer, however, was painted much more sympathetically. One of the consolations of the Islamic takeover is that both paintings will be destroyed.

  8. #8

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    So the Netherlands will be an Islamic country in a couple of generations will it?.What a load of crap.

  9. #9

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    So the Netherlands will be an Islamic country in a couple of generations will it?.What a load of crap.
    Utter horse shit

  10. #10

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    So the Netherlands will be an Islamic country in a couple of generations will it?.What a load of crap.
    Thank you for your erudite response. Are you perhaps a lecturer in demographics at one of our more prestigious universities?

    The Netherlands will be an Islamic country. Even if Muslims are not the majority population they are so well organised that they will be able to take political control of the country. In every city in the UK the local Muslims are attempting to take over the local parties by signing up ghost members who push to get their coreligionists elected as councillors and MPs. It is the same all over Europe. Muslims can get thousands of demonstrators on the streets of any town or city in Europe in half an hour. A country full of disconnected individuals will be no match for a such a well organised and goal oriented group who are willing to die for their cause.

    In addition to the higher Muslim birth rate of Dutch Muslims you will have an enormous amount of immigration and you will have conversions. The interesting thing about conversions is that it is the people at the top and their relatives who will be converting first because they know which way the wind is blowing. These top people will then use their influence to speed up Islamisation.

  11. #11

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Thank you for your erudite response. Are you perhaps a lecturer in demographics at one of our more prestigious universities?

    The Netherlands will be an Islamic country. Even if Muslims are not the majority population they are so well organised that they will be able to take political control of the country. In every city in the UK the local Muslims are attempting to take over the local parties by signing up ghost members who push to get their coreligionists elected as councillors and MPs. It is the same all over Europe. Muslims can get thousands of demonstrators on the streets of any town or city in Europe in half an hour. A country full of disconnected individuals will be no match for a such a well organised and goal oriented group who are willing to die for their cause.

    In addition to the higher Muslim birth rate of Dutch Muslims you will have an enormous amount of immigration and you will have conversions. The interesting thing about conversions is that it is the people at the top and their relatives who will be converting first because they know which way the wind is blowing. These top people will then use their influence to speed up Islamisation.


    Their plan to take over isn't working very well then is it? 13/650 (2%) Muslim MP's out a population of around 3 million (4-5%), 8 of them are women, which might be a surprise to some people.

    We haven't even reached the point where parliament reflects the population let alone a situation where Muslim's can have any hope of driving some kind of agenda.

  12. #12

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Majority in Leading EU Nations Support Trump-Style Travel Ban

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eur...n-poll-n718271


  13. #13

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post


    Their plan to take over isn't working very well then is it? 13/650 (2%) Muslim MP's out a population of around 3 million (4-5%), 8 of them are women, which might be a surprise to some people.

    We haven't even reached the point where parliament reflects the population let alone a situation where Muslim's can have any hope of driving some kind of agenda.
    Really !!

    15 years ago, Halal meat production was seen as abhorrent, now it is in the mainstream of meat used in the UK.

    I remember listening to arguments on the radio about 5 years ago between a Muslim and a vicar. The vicar didn't get a chance to express himself and the Muslim just bullied his way through the programme.

    Those who have an aggressively Muslim agenda will push their beliefs, values, cultures and way of life onto the apathetic and those who do not defend themselves as aggressively back.

    The only problem is that anyone who dares to defend 'our' beliefs, values, cultures and way of life will be termed a racist, Islamophobe, Nazi, neo Nazi, EDL, BNP or any other perceived derogatory term.

  14. #14

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Thank you for your erudite response. Are you perhaps a lecturer in demographics at one of our more prestigious universities?

    The Netherlands will be an Islamic country. Even if Muslims are not the majority population they are so well organised that they will be able to take political control of the country. In every city in the UK the local Muslims are attempting to take over the local parties by signing up ghost members who push to get their coreligionists elected as councillors and MPs. It is the same all over Europe. Muslims can get thousands of demonstrators on the streets of any town or city in Europe in half an hour. A country full of disconnected individuals will be no match for a such a well organised and goal oriented group who are willing to die for their cause.

    In addition to the higher Muslim birth rate of Dutch Muslims you will have an enormous amount of immigration and you will have conversions. The interesting thing about conversions is that it is the people at the top and their relatives who will be converting first because they know which way the wind is blowing. These top people will then use their influence to speed up Islamisation.


    What ever illegal drug your taking I'd stop if I were you

    Or if your on prescription medication off your dr ask him/her for some more

  15. #15

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by JDerrida View Post
    Really !!

    15 years ago, Halal meat production was seen as abhorrent, now it is in the mainstream of meat used in the UK.

    I remember listening to arguments on the radio about 5 years ago between a Muslim and a vicar. The vicar didn't get a chance to express himself and the Muslim just bullied his way through the programme.

    Those who have an aggressively Muslim agenda will push their beliefs, values, cultures and way of life onto the apathetic and those who do not defend themselves as aggressively back.

    The only problem is that anyone who dares to defend 'our' beliefs, values, cultures and way of life will be termed a racist, Islamophobe, Nazi, neo Nazi, EDL, BNP or any other perceived derogatory term.
    Omg a vicar got talked over by a Muslim on a radio debate 5 years ago? Well that changes everything for me.

    How many of the Muslim MP's have an 'aggressively Muslim agenda'?

    https://fullfact.org/news/stunned-sl...-meat-sold-uk/

  16. #16

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by JDerrida View Post
    Really !!

    15 years ago, Halal meat production was seen as abhorrent, now it is in the mainstream of meat used in the UK.

    I remember listening to arguments on the radio about 5 years ago between a Muslim and a vicar. The vicar didn't get a chance to express himself and the Muslim just bullied his way through the programme.

    Those who have an aggressively Muslim agenda will push their beliefs, values, cultures and way of life onto the apathetic and those who do not defend themselves as aggressively back.

    The only problem is that anyone who dares to defend 'our' beliefs, values, cultures and way of life will be termed a racist, Islamophobe, Nazi, neo Nazi, EDL, BNP or any other perceived derogatory term.
    The real truth is that most people, even 15 years ago, don't really care where their meat comes from. Were curry houses and kebab shops seen as abhorrent 15 years ago? Absolutely not.

  17. #17

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post


    Their plan to take over isn't working very well then is it? 13/650 (2%) Muslim MP's out a population of around 3 million (4-5%), 8 of them are women, which might be a surprise to some people.

    We haven't even reached the point where parliament reflects the population let alone a situation where Muslim's can have any hope of driving some kind of agenda.
    You have made a good argument Eric. Should I hoist the white flag and leave this site in disgrace? I think not. What you are overlooking is that politics is a long term career for an MP. Once they get to represent a strong Labour or Conservative seat it is very hard to get them out. Some of the MPs like Ken Clark have been milking the system before most of the parents of the current Muslim MPs even arrived in the UK. But this "dead man's shoes" situation will not continue. The situation is a bit like having a bath where your carer – I assume you are institutionalised - keeps topping up the hot water. At first everything seems pleasant and under control but then it's "Oh my God, get me out of here". Once Muslims are twenty or thirty percent of the population the riots and the demands will start in earnest. There'll be no more Mr Nice Guy. Either they will be in control of the established parties or they will want their own self-governing areas.

  18. #18

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    These kind of predictions always seem to assume that every future generation of Muslims don't take on any of the culture or values that they have been born into or lived throughout their lives.
    Western culture is incredibly pervasive, within a couple of generations the kids of these hoardes of immigrants you describe will be more Dutch than steve McLaren visiting the van Gogh museum while drinking a grolsch.

  19. #19

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    These kind of predictions always seem to assume that every future generation of Muslims don't take on any of the culture or values that they have been born into or lived throughout their lives.
    Western culture is incredibly pervasive, within a couple of generations the kids of these hoardes of immigrants you describe will be more Dutch than steve McLaren visiting the van Gogh museum while drinking a grolsch.
    I hope this doesn't sound rude but are you on crack? All the data suggests that second and third generation Muslim immigrants are more radical than their parents. There will be no Van Gogh Museum for anyone to visit. The building will be a mosque.

  20. #20

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    I hope this doesn't sound rude but are you on crack? All the data suggests that second and third generation Muslim immigrants are more radical than their parents. There will be no Van Gogh Museum for anyone to visit. The building will be a mosque.
    Link?

  21. #21

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Link?
    If I gave you one, two or twenty links you would say there are millions of Muslims and those surveys only provide a small sample. If I sent a survey out to every Muslim in the world you would tell me you can't use those results because some people didn't reply. You can't face the truth. Islam is our future.

    Ok, here's a link to a Pew Research Center survey. But a minute's searching will give you plenty of similar links.

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/p...-and-american/

  22. #22

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    If I gave you one, two or twenty links you would say there are millions of Muslims and those surveys only provide a small sample. If I sent a survey out to every Muslim in the world you would tell me you can't use those results because some people didn't reply. You can't face the truth. Islam is our future.

    Ok, here's a link to a Pew Research Center survey. But a minute's searching will give you plenty of similar links.

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/p...-and-american/
    Firstly, thank you for telling me what I will or won't say. I guess that will save you the bother of reading my reply.

    Interesting link. The important part in terms of our debate, perhaps, is this:

    "This trend was picked up by Pew pollsters who reported in 2007 that Muslims older than 30 were much less likely (28 percent) than those aged 18-29 (42 percent) to agree that “there is a natural conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society.” When it surveyed Muslims again in 2011, Pew asked if “there is only one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam”: 31 percent of foreign-born Muslims agreed, but 46 percent of native-born Muslims did. Also that year, Pew found that 58 percent of foreign-born Muslims agreed “the American people are generally friendly toward Muslim Americans,” compared with only 37 percent of their native-born offspring."

    The thing that jumps out at me is that the question is asking about how they think devout Muslims feel. We'd need to know how many said they considered themselves to be a devout Muslim. Is that higher for second or third generations than first generations?

  23. #23

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    You have made a good argument Eric. Should I hoist the white flag and leave this site in disgrace? I think not. What you are overlooking is that politics is a long term career for an MP. Once they get to represent a strong Labour or Conservative seat it is very hard to get them out. Some of the MPs like Ken Clark have been milking the system before most of the parents of the current Muslim MPs even arrived in the UK. But this "dead man's shoes" situation will not continue. The situation is a bit like having a bath where your carer – I assume you are institutionalised - keeps topping up the hot water. At first everything seems pleasant and under control but then it's "Oh my God, get me out of here". Once Muslims are twenty or thirty percent of the population the riots and the demands will start in earnest. There'll be no more Mr Nice Guy. Either they will be in control of the established parties or they will want their own self-governing areas.
    Self-fulfilling prophecy

  24. #24

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Thank you for your erudite response. Are you perhaps a lecturer in demographics at one of our more prestigious universities?

    The Netherlands will be an Islamic country. Even if Muslims are not the majority population they are so well organised that they will be able to take political control of the country. In every city in the UK the local Muslims are attempting to take over the local parties by signing up ghost members who push to get their coreligionists elected as councillors and MPs. It is the same all over Europe. Muslims can get thousands of demonstrators on the streets of any town or city in Europe in half an hour. A country full of disconnected individuals will be no match for a such a well organised and goal oriented group who are willing to die for their cause.

    In addition to the higher Muslim birth rate of Dutch Muslims you will have an enormous amount of immigration and you will have conversions. The interesting thing about conversions is that it is the people at the top and their relatives who will be converting first because they know which way the wind is blowing. These top people will then use their influence to speed up Islamisation.
    My response was a damn sight more erudite than your bullshit. The Netherlands has a current Muslim population of 6%. It is calculated that the Muslim population in Western Eurpe increases by 1% every decade. So in say 40 years time or two generations from now the Muslim population in the Netherlands will be around 10%. Just to be clear you originally stated that the Netherlands wil be an Islamic country in two generations.

    Stop deliberately exaggerating and distorting the truth.

  25. #25

    Re: The dutch general election. The biggest one so far for the right wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    My response was a damn sight more erudite than your bullshit. The Netherlands has a current Muslim population of 6%. It is calculated that the Muslim population in Western Eurpe increases by 1% every decade. So in say 40 years time or two generations from now the Muslim population in the Netherlands will be around 10%. Just to be clear you originally stated that the Netherlands wil be an Islamic country in two generations.

    Stop deliberately exaggerating and distorting the truth.
    Thank you for putting my mind at rest. You say it has been calculated that the Muslim population only increases by 1% every ten years. If that's the case then the takeover is a long time off. But hold on. It says in this link that the Muslim population of the UK increased by 75% between 2001 and 2011. Either you've been telling deliberate fibs or you are about as numerate as the average tadpole.

    https://www.rt.com/uk/231675-muslim-...tion-rises-1m/

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