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Thread: What's up with Wikileaks?

  1. #51

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    You mean the mossack fonseca hack, nothing happened really - the data was leaked. It was a simple hack owing to the fact the company involved (mossack fonseca) kept just about all their data on 2 servers and the outward facing server had a wordpress plugin with a very well known vulnerability - which they didnt fix. The server was hacked - and from their they managed to extract the emails.
    The exposure of those involved seems to have been very selective too. Didn't Soros have something to do with it, controlling the journalists who sorted through the data?
    Last edited by Wales-Bales; 08-03-17 at 13:33.

  2. #52

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    WikiLeaks has released less than 1% of its #Vault7 series in its part one publication yesterday 'Year Zero'.

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/839475557721116672

  3. #53

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    It's probably all a distraction to take attention away from Donald Trump's tax returns. I bet TOBW is livid
    You just don't get it do you. Once any politician brags about not paying their taxes, like Trump did in the second Presidential debate, they lose my support no matter what their background, politics or policies because it goes right to the heart of the sort of person they are.

    The wrongdoings, real or imagined, of their rivals or those who came before them do not somehow exonerate the man/woman concerned in my book because they've shown themselves to be a wrong un pure and simple.

    As for these Wikileaks revelations, I've got to agree with TH63 and LordKenwyne - are we meant to be astonished by them because we never believed that the CIA were into that sort of thing?

    You talk as if we are on the brink of something that will change the world forever, yet I think you are old enough to remember what happened forty three years ago (apologies if you aren't) when a President was forced to resign before he was impeached because of a bugging scandal. I was eighteen at the time, so I was old enough to understand what was happening and can remember thinking nothing would ever be the same after this - I was right to the extent that things seem to have got worse.

    The generation that are old enough to have fought in or experienced World War Two are still all around us, but their influence is waning due to age and it seems to me that many of those who came after them are unable or unwilling to grasp that, once you strip away all of the peripheral things such as social media, the sort of situation we are living through now has been repeated plenty of times throughout history.

    To my mind, the 2010s are turning into being too similar for comfort to the 1930s when economic collapse in the previous decade was followed by a series of populist and charismatic leaders with delusions of grandeur on the world stage. We all know how that ended and yet so many seem to think "that could never happen now" - why couldn't it?
    Last edited by the other bob wilson; 09-03-17 at 06:55.

  4. #54

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    You just don't get it do you. Once any politician brags about not paying their taxes, like Trump did in the second Presidential debate, they lose my support no matter what their background, politics or policies because it goes right to the heart of the sort of person they are.

    The wrongdoings, real or imagined, of their rivals or those who came before them do not somehow exonerate the man/woman concerned in my book because they've shown themselves to be a wrong un pure and simple.

    As for these Wikileaks revelations, I've got to agree with TH63 and LordKenwyne - are we meant to be astonished by them because we never believed that the CIA were into that sort of thing?

    You talk as if we are on the brink of something that will change the world forever, yet I think you are old enough to remember what happened forty three years ago (apologies if you aren't) when a President was forced to resign before he was impeached because of a bugging scandal. I was eighteen at the time, so I was old enough to understand what was happening and can remember thinking nothing would ever be the same after this - I was right to the extent that things seem to have got worse.

    The generation that are old enough to have fought in or experienced World War Two are still all around us, but their influence is waning due to age and it seems to me that many of those who came after them are unable or unwilling to grasp that, once you strip away all of the peripheral things such as social media, the sort of situation we are living through now has been repeated plenty of times throughout history.

    To my mind, the 2010s are turning into being too similar for comfort to the 1930s when economic collapse in the previous decade was followed by a series of populist and charismatic leaders with delusions of grandeur on the world stage. We all know how that ended and yet so many seem to think "that could never happen now" - why couldn't it?
    During the debate, Trump said his accontants were doing what everybody else was doing, it might have been wrong but he didn't make the laws, and the sytem wouldn't be changed under Hillary as all her doners were paying her to keep things that way. It's like blaming a person for driving at 70mph because you think it's too fast, but they are only doing what the law says they can do.

    Regarding the disclosure of his tax returns he would be mad to do it in the current environment. The press and his opponents would have made stuff up and crucified him over it, just like they did with the others. It's almost a certainty that Obama would have used the IRS to go through Trump's financial arrangements with a fine tooth comb, and just like with the hacking and the bugging they found nothing. The man is clean. If you think tax returns are a scandoulous issue, just wait until details about the Clinton Foundation become public knowledge.

    About the Wikileaks, I was inclined to agree with you until I found out later, that what they released was less than 1% of the total amount of data that they are holding. There are still a lot of things that could potentially be revealed as the agency in question are behind most of the things that happen in the world, and they have sellected all the presidents since Bush Sr.

    Back to the bugging, if what many people are saying is true, then the hacking and bugging is just the tip of the iceberg. A lot of the stuff I have heard is beyond belief. It's not specifically about the people involved (although they should be held accountable for their actions), it's about the system itself, and it will include major governments from all around the world.

    I have been saying for a while that a massive financial collapse was a part of the globalists plans. It could still happen as they still have many players in key positions. I agree with what you say about the war, and that people are forgetting about history, but what is happening now has the potential to reveal that history in fine detail, and as Wikileaks are hinting it could bring us back to "year zero".

    So to wrap up, I certainly do get it, and I would suggest that the one who doesn't get it, is your good self.
    Last edited by Wales-Bales; 09-03-17 at 16:21.

  5. #55

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    During the debate, Trump said his accontants were doing what everybody else was doing, it might have been wrong but he didn't make the laws, and the sytem wouldn't be changed under Hillary as all her doners were paying her to keep things that way. It's like blaming a person for driving at 70mph because you think it's too fast, but they are only doing what the law says they can do.

    Regarding the disclosure of his tax returns he would be mad to do it in the current environment. The press and his opponents would have made stuff up and crucified him over it, just like they did with the others. It's almost a certainty that Obama would have used the IRS to go through Trump's financial arrangements with a fine tooth comb, and just like with the hacking and the bugging they found nothing. The man is clean. If you think tax returns are a scandoulous issue, just wait until details about the Clinton Foundation become public knowledge.

    About the Wikileaks, I was inclined to agree with you until I found out later, that what they released was less than 1% of the total amount of data that they are holding. There are still a lot of things that could potentially be revealed as the agency in question are behind most of the things that happen in the world, and they have sellected all the presidents since Bush Sr.

    Back to the bugging, if what many people are saying is true, then the hacking and bugging is just the tip of the iceberg. A lot of the stuff I have heard is beyond belief. It's not specifically about the people involved (although they should be held accountable for their actions), it's about the system itself, and it will include major governments from all around the world.

    I have been saying for a while that a massive financial collapse was a part of the globalists plans. It could still happen as they still have many players in key positions. I agree with what you say about the war, and that people are forgetting about history, but what is happening now has the potential to reveal that history in fine detail, and as Wikileaks are hinting it could bring us back to "year zero".

    So to wrap up, I certainly do get it, and I would suggest that the one who doesn't get it, is your good self.
    Your first two paragraphs prove you just don't get the fundamental point I was making about Trump and his attitude to paying taxes as exemplified by his remark in the second Presidential debate.

    As for Wikileaks, I'll borrow one of your lines and say we'll have to wait and see, but, even if you're proved right, this doesn't alter the fact, and never will, that I find the views of some of the more prominent members of this so called anti elitist movement to be repugnant - what do they say about out of the frying pan, into the fire?

  6. #56

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Your first two paragraphs prove you just don't get the fundamental point I was making about Trump and his attitude to paying taxes as exemplified by his remark in the second Presidential debate.

    As for Wikileaks, I'll borrow one of your lines and say we'll have to wait and see, but, even if you're proved right, this doesn't alter the fact, and never will, that I find the views of some of the more prominent members of this so called anti elitist movement to be repugnant - what do they say about out of the frying pan, into the fire?
    I'm with you on the wait and see regarding those leaks On the tax issue, I do get your point, but you seem to be singling out Donald Trump here. He has a finance team that operates within the current law. Can you name one other company that pays more tax than they are legally obliged to pay according to the law? Trump didn't make the tax law, so I am not sure what you are expecting him to do?

  7. #57

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    How do you know it's legal? Just because he hasn't been caught?

  8. #58

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I'm with you on the wait and see regarding those leaks On the tax issue, I do get your point, but you seem to be singling out Donald Trump here. He has a finance team that operates within the current law. Can you name one other company that pays more tax than they are legally obliged to pay according to the law? Trump didn't make the tax law, so I am not sure what you are expecting him to do?
    Trump is the only politician I know who bragged about not paying taxes;-

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7332041.html

    I'm sure he isn't the only politician who doesn't pay them, but do you know of another one who says "that makes me smart" in such circumstances?

  9. #59

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    How do you know it's legal? Just because he hasn't been caught?
    If Obama did have Trump bugged, it's almost certain that he also would have had the IRS all over him and his businesses looking for Russian ties! They were looking for anything to trip him up.
    Last edited by Wales-Bales; 10-03-17 at 14:09.

  10. #60

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    If Obama did have Trump bugged, it's almost certain that he also would have had the IRS all over him and his businesses looking for Russian ties! They were looking for anything to trip him up.
    How would simply bugging him reveal that? I'm sure he's not sending regular emails "great work on the tax avoidance, guys".

    Some absolutely huge assumptions being made here, and still overlooking the fact that Daddy bloody admitted it in the debate!

  11. #61

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Trump is the only politician I know who bragged about not paying taxes;-

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7332041.html

    I'm sure he isn't the only politician who doesn't pay them, but do you know of another one who says "that makes me smart" in such circumstances?
    He was asked the question by Hillary and he had to answer it. He could have chosen his words better, but the jist of his argument was about the fact that he was merely following the tax laws that the Democrats had already put in place, and that they would never change under Hillary because her wealthy doners were paying her to keep them exactly as they were. So basically he was just doing what every other business does.
    Last edited by Wales-Bales; 10-03-17 at 14:21.

  12. #62

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    How would simply bugging him reveal that? I'm sure he's not sending regular emails "great work on the tax avoidance, guys".

    Some absolutely huge assumptions being made here, and still overlooking the fact that Daddy bloody admitted it in the debate!
    They were bugging communications between him and the server's of two Russian banks! It's obvious the IRS would comb through his financial records looking for evidence of any wrongdoing. BTW it was a hit job, and I am sure there is plenty more to the story.

    So he admitted to breaking the tax laws in the debate? Really?
    Last edited by Wales-Bales; 10-03-17 at 14:33.

  13. #63

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    They were bugging communications between him and the server's of two Russian banks! It's obvious the IRS would comb through his financial records looking for evidence of any wrongdoing. BTW it was a hit job, and I am sure there is plenty more to the story.

    So he admitted to breaking the tax laws in the debate? Really?
    I hadn't heard that. Link?

  14. #64

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I hadn't heard that. Link?
    Heard what? About the Russian banks, the IRS, the hit job, or announcing that he knowingly broke the tax laws on national TV?
    Last edited by Wales-Bales; 10-03-17 at 15:47.

  15. #65
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    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    There is surely a lot of stuff going on which we don't yet comprehend, but we must not let that cloud our more basic judgements regards acceptable behavior - or are we supposed to...

    Trump, Deep State, Obama , Clintons, Polestar, Vault7, Globalism - good / bad / ugly - etc, etc aside for a moment, what about this -

    If my local MP was exceptionally well-off and boasted (even if under live TV pressure) about not paying any taxes- live on TV , but claimed to be looking to make the constituency 'great again' - presumably by weaving magic with budgets (where does that money come from?!) .. and - expected all of his/her constituents - of course - to contribute to the state funding via tax ... I would be outside their gaff with a pitchfork . I wouldn't be alone in that.

    How is the same excusable for 'Project Trump' ?

    I suspect Donald went off paste at that point - (camera cuts to Mr Bannon with a string in his hand, doing a face-palm), or - its just another part of the intended ploy to make USA hugely angry and divided?

    It is not right for any head of state to boast that they have wriggled out of paying tax. Not on any level. Not even in extraordinary times. No siree bob!

  16. #66

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    There is surely a lot of stuff going on which we don't yet comprehend, but we must not let that cloud our more basic judgements regards acceptable behavior - or are we supposed to...

    Trump, Deep State, Obama , Clintons, Polestar, Vault7, Globalism - good / bad / ugly - etc, etc aside for a moment, what about this -

    If my local MP was exceptionally well-off and boasted (even if under live TV pressure) about not paying any taxes- live on TV , but claimed to be looking to make the constituency 'great again' - presumably by weaving magic with budgets (where does that money come from?!) .. and - expected all of his/her constituents - of course - to contribute to the state funding via tax ... I would be outside their gaff with a pitchfork . I wouldn't be alone in that.

    How is the same excusable for 'Project Trump' ?

    I suspect Donald went off paste at that point - (camera cuts to Mr Bannon with a string in his hand, doing a face-palm), or - its just another part of the intended ploy to make USA hugely angry and divided?

    It is not right for any head of state to boast that they have wriggled out of paying tax. Not on any level. Not even in extraordinary times. No siree bob!
    Thinking outside the box, Hillary was trying to skewer him with that pointed question, which was no doubt scripted in such a way as to be the killer blow, so his answer actually deflected away from the outcome Hillary was expecting. And it seems to have worked as he is now the president!
    Last edited by Wales-Bales; 10-03-17 at 17:20.

  17. #67
    International Vimana.'s Avatar
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    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Evidently it has 'worked' in that he got voted as POTUS despite that episode, and with Hilary as the unattractive alternative.

    But it is not acceptable for a head of state to boast that he doesn't pay taxes, and refuse to acknowledge the importance of apparent propriety (even if only apparent!) over their tax affairs.

    Perhaps everyone in the USA should follow the example set by their leader now then? - stop paying taxes! Be Smart! Make America great (or divided/angry/confused/weak...).

  18. #68

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    Evidently it has 'worked' in that he got voted as POTUS despite that episode, and with Hilary as the unattractive alternative.

    But it is not acceptable for a head of state to boast that he doesn't pay taxes, and refuse to acknowledge the importance of apparent propriety (even if only apparent!) over their tax affairs.

    Perhaps everyone in the USA should follow the example set by their leader now then? - stop paying taxes! Be Smart! Make America great (or divided/angry/confused/weak...).
    I know, but just look at Hillary's question again. It was worded in such a way as to cause maximum damage to Trump. It didn't, he deflected it with ease.

  19. #69
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    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I know, but just look at Hillary's question again. It was worded in such a way as to cause maximum damage to Trump. It didn't, he deflected it with ease.
    Maradona's 'Hand of God' goal was a superb goal...
    ;)

  20. #70

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    Maradona's 'Hand of God' goal was a superb goal...
    ;)
    Something like that He knew what she was looking for and he didn't oblige, he just gave the opposite answer.

  21. #71

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Heard what? About the Russian banks, the IRS, the hit job, or announcing that he knowingly broke the tax laws on national TV?
    The Russian banks.

    And the taxes thing in the debate wasn't a question.

  22. #72

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    Evidently it has 'worked' in that he got voted as POTUS despite that episode, and with Hilary as the unattractive alternative.

    But it is not acceptable for a head of state to boast that he doesn't pay taxes, and refuse to acknowledge the importance of apparent propriety (even if only apparent!) over their tax affairs.

    Perhaps everyone in the USA should follow the example set by their leader now then? - stop paying taxes! Be Smart! Make America great (or divided/angry/confused/weak...).
    Indeed. I guess the closest we've come in the UK is the expenses scandal and I think the MPs pretty much got away with that.

  23. #73

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    The Russian banks.

    And the taxes thing in the debate wasn't a question.
    All the stuff I have heard is from unofficial channels. It will probably stay unnoffical too, as none of the MSM seem to want to report on it. Instead they are focussing all of their time and energy on the fake Russian hacking story, among other things. It's quite illuminating how they have chosen sides in this matter. I can only assume they have no choice in the matter, and that they are tied in with the establishment. Bezos/WAPO definately is, as they are one of the main outlets for the anti-Trump leaks, the the NYT is another. I've a feeling it won't look good for them in the future, as the image of the MSM is already shattered amongst vast numbers of the American population.

  24. #74

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    The stuff I've heard

    You're not privy to sensitive conversation, you've read it on a site and you're not linking your source. We can draw our own conclusions.

  25. #75

    Re: What's up with Wikileaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    The stuff I've heard

    You're not privy to sensitive conversation, you've read it on a site and you're not linking your source. We can draw our own conclusions.
    I'm only an observer but anybody can wander around the web, look at information, and then draw their own conclusions. I believe plenty of intel & law enforcement people are leaking stuff to the alternative media. In fact, their reporting has been pretty good over time. Obviously you are bound to the MSM for your world view, and therefore alternative narratives are going to be a bit troubling for you. But I'm pretty confident my view of what is happening will turn out to be more accurate than yours. How do I know this? Well for a start, the DOJ and Goverment Oversight Committees are already moving on some of this stuff, even if the MSM are failing to report on it.

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