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Thread: Trump on the Middle East

  1. #26

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Bob - All political leaders want to get the unemployed back to work, grow the economy, give free health care to all etc. These were Hitlers priorities (Hitler was left wing) , they were also the policies of Thatcher, Tony Blair, Harold Wilson, Obama and Trump. So you see politicians from Left and Right have the same general goals - it's called Politics and it's just the rhetoric that changes
    lol

  2. #27
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    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I agree it's a dangerous comparison, i tend to avoid making it because it tends to be counter productive.

    I dont think most people making the comparison are saying that trump is going to kill 20 million people, but in the same breath i dont think Hitler in the 30s would have realised what would pan out over the coming decade.

    TOBWs comparison was an interesting one and doesn't imply that trump will murder anyone. Perhaps there is a better charismatic leader who makes bold statements and leaves things for others to sort out the details who would be a better example.
    Vincent Tan? Hogo Chávez? Castro?
    Do we have to compare him with anyone?


    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I think Trump is someone who has and will attract Nazi supporters, but I agree that, based on what he's done up to now anyway, there is little, if anything, to justify any claims that he is another Hitler.

    I'm talking only in terms of the way Hitler and Trump approach(ed) the task of running their country and it would appear that there are what I'd say were dangerous parallels between them - nothing to do with their politics, more the type of men they are/were and whether that would be a problem in a job like that - obviously, it was for one of them.
    I wasn't saying that you are the same as the people I'm talking about but people are losing their minds over Trump, logic has gone out of the window for some, it's all getting a bit too crazy (even for me).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    Have you asked them to substantiate their opinion?
    I haven't got the energy tbh, if you question anything it's just assumed that you must be a Trump supporter not because you are using common sense.

  3. #28

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I saw a program a while back on Jerusalem - and how it used to be. Jews, Muslims, Christians all getting along, doing their daily stuff - taking it in turns to worship at the wall etc.

    So option 2 would be better. A nation with a parliament where political parties based on religion are not allowed perhaps ?
    Going back to the earliest times in Jerusalem, which is what the various religions rely on as their claim on the City.

    Jews were there first, followed by Christians.

    The first recognition of a Muslim presence in Jerusalem was following Muhammed's alleged Night Journey, in 621 from Mecca to the site of the modern day Al Aqsa mosque. Ironically the distance between the two sites is 666 miles ! The mosque was never built in Muhammed's lifetime.

    621 is seen as the start of the Islamic calendar.

    For the first 17 months after the visit to the site of Al Aqsa, Muhammed insisted on all prayers be directed towards Al Aqsa.

    This changed to all prayers being directed towards Mecca, following the failure to convert Jews to Islam.

    This is the start of hatred towards Jews by Muslims.

  4. #29

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Having watched most of his presss conference yesterday, I am now convinced he is insane.

  5. #30

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Having watched most of his presss conference yesterday, I am now convinced he is insane.
    Yeah he doesn't seem far off having some sort of breakdown.

    Its like he feels persecuted by the press, if he had a modicum of self reflection he could see that he's brought it upon himself to a large degree, and reign it in a bit to get an easier ride.
    Unfortunately I don't think that self reflection is part of his make up.

  6. #31

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    It is also something to be of note - that Mohammed whilst trying to 'get is religion' going wasnt getting much traction - so he studied Jews in order to see how they did it - the rest is history. I often wondered why Jews and Muslims have so much in common - because Mo nicked most of their practices and called it Islam.

    A truely horrible religion - and probably the worst of all forms of religion.
    Pretty much any of the horrible things that get justified by an extreme interpretation of Islam could just as easily be justified by an extreme interpretation of Christianity.
    Indeed the past is littered with many examples of how brutal Christianity can be.
    Therefore the reason we see a much higher prevailance of these issues in Islam today is nothing to do with anything innate with the religion, it is more to do with the conditions of the people who follow that religion.

    If conditions in South Wales and conditions in Gaza were magically reversed overnight, there would be terrorism here and not there.

  7. #32
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    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    In 2017 it would be good to imagine that some of the historical atrocities carried out in the name of some religion would have been at least a little symptomatic of less enlightened times and during ages when barbaric acts were fairly commonplace, but evidently it is still going on, and probably even encouraged (by?).

  8. #33

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Yeah he doesn't seem far off having some sort of breakdown.

    Its like he feels persecuted by the press, if he had a modicum of self reflection he could see that he's brought it upon himself to a large degree, and reign it in a bit to get an easier ride.
    Unfortunately I don't think that self reflection is part of his make up.
    The media aren't blameless in all of this and I think it's fair to say that there are plenty in their numbers that have an agenda, but Trump, and his staff, are only making the situation worse by the attitude which comes through every time someone who they perceive as hostile asks them a question.

    I think I'm right in saying that the press conference yesterday went on for seventy seven minutes? I suppose the mainstream media might b e doing their bit for the globalist, liberal elite by concentrating only on the confrontational stuff, but it stretches credibility beyond limits to imagine that those of us who didn't watch the whole of the "event" are being denied the parts where Trump spoke, lucidly, persuasively and impressively about what's been achieved in his Presidency so far. What I've seen is someone who looks too thin skinned to be doing the job he is, playing game the media wants to play because he doesn't have the poise, dignity or class to rise above it and attempt to push the arguments his way. For example, for anyone to claim that they had a great policy, but got the wrong court (twice) doesn't just sound unconvincing, it sounds ludicrous - forget the politics, it's the man whose the issue here.

    Also, is anyone else already getting sick and tired of people, from all shades of political opinion, squawking "that's fake news" every time they are asked an awkward question?

  9. #34
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    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    The media aren't blameless in all of this and I think it's fair to say that there are plenty in their numbers that have an agenda, but Trump, and his staff, are only making the situation worse by the attitude which comes through every time someone who they perceive as hostile asks them a question.

    I think I'm right in saying that the press conference yesterday went on for seventy seven minutes? I suppose the mainstream media might b e doing their bit for the globalist, liberal elite by concentrating only on the confrontational stuff, but it stretches credibility beyond limits to imagine that those of us who didn't watch the whole of the "event" are being denied the parts where Trump spoke, lucidly, persuasively and impressively about what's been achieved in his Presidency so far. What I've seen is someone who looks too thin skinned to be doing the job he is, playing game the media wants to play because he doesn't have the poise, dignity or class to rise above it and attempt to push the arguments his way. For example, for anyone to claim that they had a great policy, but got the wrong court (twice) doesn't just sound unconvincing, it sounds ludicrous - forget the politics, it's the man whose the issue here.

    Also, is anyone else already getting sick and tired of people, from all shades of political opinion, squawking "that's fake news" every time they are asked an awkward question?
    One of the 'uses' for 'Fake News' and Conspiracy theories is that once the notions become common parlance the simple mention of either can can be used to deflect questions or hide events in plain sight. It may well be that the notions have been actively cultivated on an increasing scale for that very purpose.
    I'm not saying that what is going on here. Or it could be.

  10. #35

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R View Post
    I haven't got the energy tbh, if you question anything it's just assumed that you must be a Trump supporter not because you are using common sense.
    You're not making any assumptions though, so that's ok.

  11. #36
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    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    You're not making any assumptions though, so that's ok.
    I'm not making assumptions, I've watched the same arguments over and over again, I'm not a Trump supporter so why should I waste my time arguing with people about it? it's depressing, I'd rather be on here arguing with you about not arguing with them.

  12. #37
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    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by JDerrida View Post
    Going back to the earliest times in Jerusalem, which is what the various religions rely on as their claim on the City.

    Jews were there first, followed by Christians.

    The first recognition of a Muslim presence in Jerusalem was following Muhammed's alleged Night Journey, in 621 from Mecca to the site of the modern day Al Aqsa mosque. Ironically the distance between the two sites is 666 miles ! The mosque was never built in Muhammed's lifetime.

    621 is seen as the start of the Islamic calendar.

    For the first 17 months after the visit to the site of Al Aqsa, Muhammed insisted on all prayers be directed towards Al Aqsa.

    This changed to all prayers being directed towards Mecca, following the failure to convert Jews to Islam.

    This is the start of hatred towards Jews by Muslims.

    I may be wrong but I thought there was a period of many, many centuries between the age of Mohamed and now when Jews found acceptance, tolerance and safety from Christian pogroms and massacres in Islamic countries?

  13. #38

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I may be wrong but I thought there was a period of many, many centuries between the age of Mohamed and now when Jews found acceptance, tolerance and safety from Christian pogroms and massacres in Islamic countries?
    I read they had safety as a vassal on some occasions, being made to pay huge sums in contributions. Higher taxes for Jews etc.

  14. #39
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    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    I read they had safety as a vassal on some occasions, being made to pay huge sums in contributions. Higher taxes for Jews etc.
    A complicated picture. But there was a long period when majority Islam was more tolerant and inclusive than majority Christianity:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...er_Muslim_rule

    There were always periods or places where discrimination and persecution were worse, but it is fair to describe a medieval 'golden age' for Jews under Islam. Before the culture changed and simplistic/extremist views came to dominate.

  15. #40

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    From a personal point of view telling Israel and Palestine to sort it out between themselves is probably the best situation for Trump, as he's fighting enough battles himself on his own on home turf. Besides the media, Democrats, and Soros & his paid aggitators, he is also facing opposition from within his own party, the deep state, the intelligence agencies, and some say there are even Trojans amongst his advisers and transition team. That's a lot of people who are against him!

  16. #41
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    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    From a personal point of view telling Israel and Palestine to sort it out between themselves is probably the best situation for Trump, as he's fighting enough battles himself on his own on home turf. Besides the media, Democrats, and Soros & his paid aggitators, he is also facing opposition from within his own party, the deep state, the intelligence agencies, and some say there are even Trojans amongst his advisers and transition team. That's a lot of people who are against him!
    "Infamy, Infamy.." ..and then some!

  17. #42

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    "Infamy, Infamy.." ..and then some!
    He said he is open minded about the solution, and if negotiations start going to off-track, he can always go back to supporting the UN position of two separate states. In the meantime he is giving the two parties concerned the opportunity to sort out their own differences, which actually seems quite sensible.

  18. #43

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Is Trump critic and Middle-East player John McCain in a spot of bother?

    http://www.12news.com/mb/news/politi...tion/114870450

  19. #44
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    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Is Trump critic and Middle-East player John McCain in a spot of bother?

    http://www.12news.com/mb/news/politi...tion/114870450
    I have come to the conclusion that all potentially all, each and every one of 'them' are up to their neck in it.

    Its a big game unfolding. Lots of dirty tackles going in.
    Who is the ref? Who do the crowd support? Who might 'win'?

  20. #45

    Re: Trump on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    I have come to the conclusion that all potentially all, each and every one of 'them' are up to their neck in it.

    Its a big game unfolding. Lots of dirty tackles going in.
    Who is the ref? Who do the crowd support? Who might 'win'?
    He also funneled $9 million of leftover cash from his 2008 presidential campaign, but the foundation hardly ever hands out any grants or donations.

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