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Thread: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

  1. #1

    Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Think most agree that an alienation has occurred within Labours traditional supporter's , not the membership, but those who actually vote governments in and out of power, these voters are not left or right leaning , they are considered as a floating voter, with a moral social conscious, would they find Clive Lewis an effective and appealing opposition leader.

  2. #2

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    He is very much unproven. Not convinced he is the right man.

  3. #3

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    He is very much unproven. Not convinced he is the right man.
    Trouble is who is proven, don't you think some fresh youthful , no baggaged, non 1970's type of candidate might improve matters , from where the party are now

  4. #4

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Trouble is who is proven, don't you think some fresh youthful , no baggaged, non 1970's type of candidate might improve matters , from where the party are now
    Yes fair comment but whoever becomes leader will be faced with a hostile right wing press looking to destroy them. Its called democracy

  5. #5
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    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Yes fair comment but whoever becomes leader will be faced with a hostile right wing press looking to destroy them. Its called democracy
    It's OK. They are all Fake News now.
    yeah ..

  6. #6

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Yes fair comment but whoever becomes leader will be faced with a hostile right wing press looking to destroy them. Its called democracy
    Right wing press has always been their , and Labour has put up better opposition arguments , and had won more seats , love or hate him , Blair beat or circumvented them on more than one occasion, so it can done , at the moment the Tories have a free run to the next election.

    Labour desperatly needs cleverer politicians, and I hate to say it , a Alistair Campbell type of press spin machine.

  7. #7

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Right wing press has always been their , and Labour has put up better opposition arguments , and had won more seats , love or hate him , Blair beat or circumvented them on more than one occasion, so it can done , at the moment the Tories have a free run to the next election.

    Labour desperatly needs cleverer politicians, and I hate to say it , a Alistair Campbell type of press spin machine.
    Excuse me, but are you a nutter or have you just been taking drugs? No sane person would ever say we need another Alistair Campbell - an alcoholic pornographer who bullied and lied for his evil masters. He is supposed to have wept when Maxwell died. Let's hope he tops himself when Blair goes.

    The negative stories about Corbyn are mainly because he can't be controlled by Israel. Were you asleep when that it was shown the other month that many of the Labour - and Conservative - MPs answer to their paymasters in the Israeli embassy?

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    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Yes fair comment but whoever becomes leader will be faced with a hostile right wing press looking to destroy them. Its called democracy
    Come on Pearcey, you know that crap works both ways.

  9. #9
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    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Excuse me, but are you a nutter or have you just been taking drugs? No sane person would ever say we need another Alistair Campbell - an alcoholic pornographer who bullied and lied for his evil masters. He is supposed to have wept when Maxwell died. Let's hope he tops himself when Blair goes.

    The negative stories about Corbyn are mainly because he can't be controlled by Israel. Were you asleep when that it was shown the other month that many of the Labour - and Conservative - MPs answer to their paymasters in the Israeli embassy?
    Sometimes you sound just like ...

  10. #10

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    Sometimes you sound just like ...
    I think he was banned before the Israeli embassy scandal, but that story showed he knew what he was talking about. I wish he'd come back here and liven the place up.

  11. #11
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    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer


  12. #12

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Excuse me, but are you a nutter or have you just been taking drugs? No sane person would ever say we need another Alistair Campbell - an alcoholic pornographer who bullied and lied for his evil masters. He is supposed to have wept when Maxwell died. Let's hope he tops himself when Blair goes.

    The negative stories about Corbyn are mainly because he can't be controlled by Israel. Were you asleep when that it was shown the other month that many of the Labour - and Conservative - MPs answer to their paymasters in the Israeli embassy?
    Fake news.

    If you want some of my drugs go to www.notnutsrealitycheck.com

  13. #13

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Fake news.

    If you want some of my drugs go to www.notnutsrealitycheck.com
    It's not fake news. There are links to the documentary and a summary below. Corbyn is not sufficiently pro-Israel for them.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/is...byn-1016879568

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCOhdgRBoc

    Do you think it is a coincidence that the most anti-Corbyn MPs are all in Labour Friends of Israel. Just look at some of the anti-Corbyn antics of some of these people. They have even heckled their own party leader during Prime Minister's questions. Just look up the anti-Corbyn actions by MPs like Mike Grapes, Louise Ellman, John Mann and Joan Ryan.

    The fact that Labour voters in Stoke were even willing to vote an obvious idiot into Parliament the other day shows that rank and file Labour voters still support Corbyn. They were voting for Corbyn not the idiot.

  14. #14

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R View Post
    Come on Pearcey, you know that crap works both ways.
    So you think May has been given the same treatment as Corbyn then? I think not.

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    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    So you think May has been given the same treatment as Corbyn then? I think not.
    That's the press though not democracy, who was to blame when Labour last won an election? not the right wing press, if you see what I mean.

  16. #16

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R View Post
    That's the press though not democracy, who was to blame when Labour last won an election? not the right wing press, if you see what I mean.
    I see what you mean but the press spread a lot of lies and it does impact upon what people think. Even the BBC were at it. Their old senior political commentator Nick Robinson who is a Tory felt they were biased against Corbyn. May has had a very easy ride by comparison.

  17. #17

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    So you think May has been given the same treatment as Corbyn then? I think not.
    We have a free press, get over it. May has barely put a foot wrong since becoming PM, Corbyn and his cronies are a gaffe a minute. Every lefty in this country sounds like Trump supporters prattling on about his treatment by the MSM.

    As for the BBC well they hate Corbyn, Trump, Brexit and the SNP. They have long been the media wing for New Labour.

  18. #18

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948 View Post
    We have a free press, get over it. May has barely put a foot wrong since becoming PM, Corbyn and his cronies are a gaffe a minute. Every lefty in this country sounds like Trump supporters prattling on about his treatment by the MSM.

    As for the BBC well they hate Corbyn, Trump, Brexit and the SNP. They have long been the media wing for New Labour.
    May has been appalling but then again I am as one eyed as you. At least I will admit it.
    As for the free press bit our media is controlled by billionaires who don't even live in this country. Thats why May was so desperate to meet Murdoch so she could get him onside. The press is only free in that certain powerful press barons can press for their own agendas.

  19. #19
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    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948 View Post
    We have a free press, get over it. May has barely put a foot wrong since becoming PM, Corbyn and his cronies are a gaffe a minute. Every lefty in this country sounds like Trump supporters prattling on about his treatment by the MSM.

    As for the BBC well they hate Corbyn, Trump, Brexit and the SNP. They have long been the media wing for New Labour.
    I think you are mistaken on almost every count here.

  20. #20
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    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948 View Post
    We have a free press, get over it. May has barely put a foot wrong since becoming PM, Corbyn and his cronies are a gaffe a minute. Every lefty in this country sounds like Trump supporters prattling on about his treatment by the MSM.

    As for the BBC well they hate Corbyn, Trump, Brexit and the SNP. They have long been the media wing for New Labour.
    In what sense is the press free?

    There are some pockets of independent thought, news and analysis, but overwhelmingly the news and editorial elements of the print and online press is determined by the interests of offshore billionaires and commercial advertisers - with an overlay of lobbyist spin and packaged press releases that fit into the priorities set above. The GMB and Amnesty are free to issue their press releases. The Mail is free to ignore them, and select the stories and angles that favour its advertisers, the Tory Party, and other interests that that newspaper has traditionally promoted.

  21. #21
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    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    Excuse me, but are you a nutter or have you just been taking drugs? No sane person would ever say we need another Alistair Campbell - an alcoholic pornographer who bullied and lied for his evil masters. He is supposed to have wept when Maxwell died. Let's hope he tops himself when Blair goes.

    The negative stories about Corbyn are mainly because he can't be controlled by Israel. Were you asleep when that it was shown the other month that many of the Labour - and Conservative - MPs answer to their paymasters in the Israeli embassy?
    Quote Originally Posted by David Vincent View Post
    It's not fake news. There are links to the documentary and a summary below. Corbyn is not sufficiently pro-Israel for them.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/is...byn-1016879568

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCOhdgRBoc

    Do you think it is a coincidence that the most anti-Corbyn MPs are all in Labour Friends of Israel. Just look at some of the anti-Corbyn antics of some of these people. They have even heckled their own party leader during Prime Minister's questions. Just look up the anti-Corbyn actions by MPs like Mike Grapes, Louise Ellman, John Mann and Joan Ryan.

    The fact that Labour voters in Stoke were even willing to vote an obvious idiot into Parliament the other day shows that rank and file Labour voters still support Corbyn. They were voting for Corbyn not the idiot.

    I think it is an exaggeration to say that the anti-Corbyn stories are [U]mainly[/U] because of his stance on Israel/Palestine, but I agree that is a significant factor - and one of the main lines of attack with the anti-semitism allegations that have disintegrated on closer examination. The most prominent internal critics and slanderers are also LFI members, but not all of them. There are political/ideological opponents of Corbyn in the PLP (many dancing to the Israeli Embassy tune), but the larger number are MPs who see him as naive and a poor party leader (although an effective issues based campaigner and dissident agitator). The majority are more concerned about their seats and ministerial prospects than with illegal settlement expansion on the West Bank.

    I came across this open letter today, from Tony Greenstein to Joan Ryan, written on 8 January. I knew Tony years ago when I was very active politically (no longer) and always respected him. It is a searing attack on the hypocrisy of the Labour Friends of Israel (and the same applies to the Conservative Friends of Israel) when they shout 'anti semite' at campaigners for justice for Palestinians:

    http://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/ope...riends-israel/
    Last edited by jon1959; 07-03-17 at 17:47.

  22. #22

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I think it is an exaggeration to say that the anti-Corbyn stories are [U]mainly[/U] because of his stance on Israel/Palestine, but I agree that is a significant factor - and one of the main lines of attack with the anti-semitism allegations that have disintegrated on closer examination. The most prominent internal critics and slanderers are also LFI members, but not all of them. There are political/ideological opponents of Corbyn in the PLP (many dancing to the Israeli Embassy tune), but the larger number are MPs who see him as naive and a poor party leader (although an effective issues based campaigner and dissident agitator). The majority are more concerned about their seats and ministerial prospects than with illegal settlement expansion on the West Bank.

    I came across this open letter today, from Tony Greenstein to Joan Ryan, written on 8 January. I knew Tony years ago when I was very active politically (no longer) and always respected him. It is a searing attack on the hypocrisy of the Labour Friends of Israel (and the same applies to the Conservative Friends of Israel) when they shout 'anti semite' at campaigners for justice for Palestinians:

    http://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/ope...riends-israel/
    Joan Ryan showed in the video that you can deflect any criticism of Israel with an antisemitism complaint. What annoyed me most about her behaviour is that she is being paid to represent her constituents and yet she is spending her time acting on behalf of a foreign country. It is a bit like seeing someone you have paid to fix your house spending his time fixing your neighbour's house instead.

    I agree that most MPs are just concerned with keeping their well paid jobs and they want someone in charge who will increase their chances of that. But these MPs don't want to be seen rocking the boat. I think we are also agreed about the fact that the MPs who are most openly rocking the boat seem to be the Labour Friends of Israel members.

  23. #23

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    I look at Trump in America and Corbyn in this country and see the same thing. For many, their opinion of either man rests with how they align themselves on issues and I'd be lying if I said this wasn't a factor in how I judge them, but, far more, my opinion is formed on what sort of man they appear to be - in both cases, they strike me as being someone who is wrong temperamentally for their current job.

    In Corbyn's case, Jon's use of the term "naive and a poor party leader" describes how I perceive the man to a tee. Of course, his cause is not helped by a press that might be "free", but is largely in the hands of parties who would feel that the last thing they would want to see from their paper, and those who work for them, is the sort of independent, pioneering and campaigning journalism that should be a byword for any press that is truly free.

    However, Labour leaders who never cosyed up to the likes of Murdoch in the way that Blair did, have been able to be effective leaders of their party in the face of an overwhelmingly hostile press, so it's wrong to assume Corbyn never had a chance to get the country behind him. Truth is, a relatively small number of disciples apart, the country sees him for what he is - a serial dissenter who has never, ever, shown he had it in him to lead his party effectively.

    Against my better judgement, I was willing to give Corbyn a chance when he was elected because the idea of someone who was so different from the other "career politician" candidates appealed to me a little, but my loss of any faith in him I had has nothing to do with his views on Israel/Palestine (except to the extent that they tend to emphasise the way he fails to connect with your average British worker), it's because he is such a gift to a Conservative party which, currently, looks set for another decade or more in power while doing very little to suggest that they are persuading little more than around a third of the country around to their way of thinking.

    For me, to suggest that Labour won the Stoke Central by election because of Corbyn is laughable. They won it because of the sort of tribal Labour vote that the party has relied heavily on for generations, but the evidence is that they will not be able to do so for much longer - they need far better than what Corbyn has to offer if they are to become any sort of decent opposition party.
    Last edited by the other bob wilson; 08-03-17 at 06:10.

  24. #24

    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    If the Labour vote is "tribal" then any leader will do and there is no reason to remove Corbyn.

    Corbyn has a problem with his presentation and the mainstream media are using this against him. They did the same thing with Michael Foot. But if we just rely on presentation to judge people then we up with con artists like Blair. It boils down to whether you want a leader with principles or do you want someone who is only in politics for the money. I suppose there are more charismatic MPs who would increase the chances of Labour being elected but what is the point of putting someone in power who acts according to self-interest rather than principles. Nearly all MPs are just there for the money. I haven't noticed many Labour MPs other than Corbyn who stand out as principled and decent.

  25. #25
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    Re: Clive Lewis Is He The Answer

    Unfortunately personality and presentation holds way too much sway. It always did to some extent, but it certainly does now.
    I doubt that Corbyn will attract many voters that are not already at least warmed towards him.

    It really is a catch-22. There is no point in having alternative, decent policies (nor even serve as a full-strength opposition) if you stand little chance of being elected to implement them.
    There is no point in abandoning your policies, putting on a cheesy smile and lurching towards the centre ground solely in order to get elected as some kind of political eunuch .
    Last edited by Vimana.; 08-03-17 at 13:00.

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