After tonight's Barca PSG game

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

The Champions League is like a cabal, now, yes. The PL title was for a while - around 2000, we were 90% sure Man Utd would win it and if they didn't it would be Arsenal. Now you're looking at four or five clubs with a genuine chance (not counting one-offs like Leicester). To go back to chris' post earlier, six or seven clubs ruling the roost is actually very competitive. I don't see that in any other big league.

But with each year that passes, it's the midtable teams who move further away from Championship level, clubs like West Brom, Stoke, Southampton, dare I say it Swansea. That's where the closed shop comes in.

Yeah, all good points. It's certainly more open than other leagues but open to whom? I'm not so sure Sheff Weds, Palace, Leeds, Villa, Forest, Norwich, Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Watford, Ipswich, West Brom, QPR and Derby (or teams of that ilk) would get into the top 4 now (as they did in the 20 years prior to the Prem) unless they pay the cabal fees. Mind you, Tottenham aren't paying the fees as such but they're not a provincial team and are about to move into a 60,000 seater stadium.

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong and there are more Leicester types in the coming years. Except Swansea.

[chris]

Yeah, all good points. It's certainly more open than other leagues but open to whom? I'm not so sure Sheff Weds, Palace, Leeds, Villa, Forest, Norwich, Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Watford, Ipswich, West Brom, QPR and Derby (or teams of that ilk) would get into the top 4 now (as they did in the 20 years prior to the Prem) unless they pay the cabal fees. Mind you, Tottenham aren't paying the fees as such but they're not a provincial team and are about to move into a 60,000 seater stadium.

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong and there are more Leicester types in the coming years. Except Swansea.

the premier league goes in cycles the problem is its between the same 3 or 4 clubs . man city, chelsea, man utd and maybe arsenal if they ever decide to spend some money. the rest are making the numbers up, liverpool and spurs have never won the premier league and wont win it anytime soon

[chris]

since the premier league started in 92/93 season only six teams have won it that is in 25 years , that shows how much of a closed shop it really is , blackburn and leicester were both one offs neither side carried on from where they left off.

the rest both man city and chelsea have basically spent millions to achieve a league title which previously eluded them for donkeys years, that only leaves man utd and arsenal both massive clubs who were collecting champions league revenue for years.