Lots of bitter England fans peeved about Woodburn's call up

[goats]

and a completely self centered cyunt.

Bit harsh but the Cnut does sum up everything that is wrong in the modern game......with people of his ilk England will always fail, they have no leaders at all.

[lardy]

its not hard to be supposedly world class in this day and age , there is nowhere near the amount of players around of world class ability that was about in the era john charles played in , when real madrid were playing in that era they won the european cup five times on the bounce , puskas , di stefano , gento ,and that was just one team, etc gareth bale is the best wales have produced for a long time but he is not up there with the true greats that real madrid have had play for them by a long way and that is only 50 - 60 ,s.

Surely it's all relative to who else is around at the same time?

[chris]

Surely it's all relative to who else is around at the same time?

yes it is , paul pogba is the most expensive player in the world and SUPPOSEDLY WORLD CLASS

i rest my case .

[blue matt]

I wonder in 20 years will we be discussing Bale as a " great " personally i think we defiantly will

[chris]

I wonder in 20 years will we be discussing Bale as a " great " personally i think we defiantly will

in the era we play in now , bale is up there with the best in the world

if we are talking about all time greats from previous decades , he is a long way down the list.

[lardy]

in the era we play in now , bale is up there with the best in the world

if we are talking about all time greats from previous decades , he is a long way down the list.

Nobody is calling him an alltime great. World class usually means comparison with his peers (as you said, "this day and age"). You're the only person talking about the past, apart from a post saying he's arguably the best Welsh player of all time. Even then, that's Welsh players only and he's certainly not a long way down the list there.

[chris]

Nobody is calling him an alltime great. World class usually means comparison with his peers (as you said, "this day and age"). You're the only person talking about the past, apart from a post saying he's arguably the best Welsh player of all time. Even then, that's Welsh players only and he's certainly not a long way down the list there.

if we are talking about just welsh players that have played abroad and of world class ability in their era or time , then fair enough , but there as not been that many as there , other than john charles , ian rush , mark hughes , and gareth bale and thats about it.

charles for me would easily top that list.

[PerryJason]

More players will choose Wales now as little England are a crock of shite

[City123]

in the era we play in now , bale is up there with the best in the world

if we are talking about all time greats from previous decades , he is a long way down the list.

And in 20 years time people will be saying "Oh [Insert name here] is a good player, but he's no Gareth Bale"

That's how the "all time greats" discussions work, the modern greats are dismissed until around 20 years after they've retired

[chris]

And in 20 years time people will be saying "Oh [Insert name here] is a good player, but he's no Gareth Bale"

That's how the "all time greats" discussions work, the modern greats are dismissed until around 20 years after they've retired

bale is no maradona , cruyff, charles, di stefano, puskas, beckanbauer , etc great players are great players no matter what era you played in, as explained bale is up there with the best in the world in this era , but lets be honest, their is not a lot of competition about . in my opinion messi is the only player people will be talking about twenty years from now as a true great.from this era.

[BlueArmy 86]

if we are talking about just welsh players that have played abroad and of world class ability in their era or time , then fair enough , but there as not been that many as there , other than john charles , ian rush , mark hughes , and gareth bale and thats about it.

charles for me would easily top that list.

How do you know? Were you around to see him play?

[chris]

How do you know? Were you around to see him play?

ask around pal, he was on another level to the other three that have been mentioned , the fact he went to juventus thirty years before any of the others followed him abroad tells its own story, you had to be very special indeed if a club like juventus wanted you at that time.

[G rangetown Blue]

Have you seen England's centre backs over the past few years? Wiliams would have won plenty of caps had he decided to play for England.

He never had a 'decision' to make, he never got the option to play for his country.

But you're correct, if he hadn't selfishly jumped at the chance to take a Welshmans place in their national team, he could have possibly played for his own country, they haven't exactly been blessed with decent centre back!

Hopefully he regrets it for the rest if his life, I'm sure deep down he actually does, I know I would.

[G rangetown Blue]

It would have seemed a distant dream when he was playing at Stockport though.

I missed this one!

Hopefully Williams is just as deluded as this guy, and also thinks he could have "walked into the English team" (he probably does!) too.

Imagine how it must feel to know that you blew the chance to play football for your own country.

[neilw65]

How do you know? Were you around to see him play?

I can't see me saying this very often, but I agree with Chris regarding John Charles.

My Dad plays against him when he was at Cardiff and he said he was in a different class to anyone else he played against, including John Toshack just before he moved to Liverpool.

For people such as Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves to rate John Charles as the best player they have ever seen, including Pele, that says everything.

[BlueArmy 86]

I can't comment because I never had the chance to see john Charles play. I'm not saying Bale is better, but I just wonder how some people are so sure. I never knew jimmy greaves and bobby Robson said those things so that's interesting to know.

[BLUETIT]

ask around pal, he was on another level to the other three that have been mentioned , the fact he went to juventus thirty years before any of the others followed him abroad tells its own story, you had to be very special indeed if a club like juventus wanted you at that time.

Why do people always pick out the big names, as if they were the only ones who had successful careers abroad. !

Here is one great player (even though he is Ingurlish), who is often forgotten:--

Cardiff City player as well,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Hitchens

[xsnaggle]

for once I find myself agreeing with Chris.

john Charles was probably the outstanding player of the proffessional era, and certainly head and shoulders (yes and in height) above his peers.
When a panel of then famous managers were asked to name their best 11 players for a world team, an Italian put John Charles in the same team twice, once at Centre forward and once at Centre Half. When he was told he couldn't do that he said words to the effect of "You asked me to pick the best player in each position, and Charles is the best in the world in both these positions."

No one could argue against that and his selection was allowed to stand.

I cannot recall that ever being said of any other player before or since. (and in case anyone asks - - Yes, I did see him play)

[El Gwapo]

I never saw John Charles play. My father did and I respect his opinion immensely. he said the same. Pick him c/f to go 1-0 up, then move him to c/h to secure the win. Bobby Robson wrote the foreword in Charles autobiography and it is a glowing recommendation. He must have been one hell of a player. By many accounts Wales might have won the 58 tournament is teams hadnt kicked the smoke out of him

[JKB]

Pele was undoubtedly the best ever. Longevity, world cups won, career goals/games ratio who else comes close?

Charles, Best, Messi all greats but their records at international level were average.

[City123]

Pele was undoubtedly the best ever. Longevity, world cups won, career goals/games ratio who else comes close?

Charles, Best, Messi all greats but their records at international level were average.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...overhyped.html

[City123]

Pele was undoubtedly the best ever. Longevity, world cups won, career goals/games ratio who else comes close?

Charles, Best, Messi all greats but their records at international level were average.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...overhyped.html

[JKB]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...overhyped.html

Interesting article. Having watched every world cup since 1966 my own view is that I have still not seen anyone to rival Pele as an individual player or the 1970 Brazil team. Defensively they were average but nothing matches their attack.

Each decade produces a truly great player but no one else has appeared in 4 world cups and won 3. Maradona, Messi and Cruyff do not come close.

Garrincha was supremely talented but like Best lacked discipline and wasted his great talent.

[jeepster]

Interesting article. Having watched every world cup since 1966 my own view is that I have still not seen anyone to rival Pele as an individual player or the 1970 Brazil team. Defensively they were average but nothing matches their attack.

Each decade produces a truly great player but no one else has appeared in 4 world cups and won 3. Maradona, Messi and Cruyff do not come close.

Garrincha was supremely talented but like Best lacked discipline and wasted his great talent.

Best attacking team ever

[bobh]

Interesting article. Having watched every world cup since 1966 my own view is that I have still not seen anyone to rival Pele as an individual player or the 1970 Brazil team. Defensively they were average but nothing matches their attack.

Each decade produces a truly great player but no one else has appeared in 4 world cups and won 3. Maradona, Messi and Cruyff do not come close.

Garrincha was supremely talented but like Best lacked discipline and wasted his great talent.

1970 Brazill TEAM was, indeed, the best ever.
But Id put Cruyff above Pele any day as an individual player.