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Thread: Arm our officers

  1. #121
    International Colonel Cærdiffi's Avatar
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    I posted a link earlier which appears to have been overlooked.
    Couple of years ago in New York, a guy with a gun shot and killed his former boss, police responded by shooting him dead and managed to hit NINE innocent bystanders.
    Terrorist and other gun related incidents are thankfully very rare in this country, nigh on unheard of in our fair city, and while I'd support the use of armed officers at high profile events e.g. The champions league final, arming all officers as a matter of course seems to be an overreaction borne out of understandable emotion.
    I'm sure if you asked "regular" police officers if they wanted guns, many would say no.
    HOW CN U B SURE HAVE U AKSED THEM ALL

  2. #122

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    I am sure you know the answer, as i have mentioned it earlier but i will play along

    they do, it is a example, to counter yours of being in london, the trained officers ( normally AR trained officers ) in Bath, Salisbury or Yeovil ( i.e outside bigger cities and espeically london ) could very well be 30 mins away, In London they are not due to the fact that MORE Officers are trained to use them, ( in the days of staff being cut and forces Sharing resources the times can be greater than 30 mins )
    I'm sure you realise that my question was why do these police officers not have tasers, not how do they get around it.

    Maybe they don't have the resources to train everyone, or the resources to buy units for all, or maybe there's just no need for every officer to have one as the typical type of crime doesn't demand it.

    Whatever the reason(s) for them not giving tasers to all officers, you can multiply it by ten for guns.

  3. #123

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I'm sure you realise that my question was why do these police officers not have tasers, not how do they get around it.
    the point of distribution is important here, it is fine to use examples of what happens in London, but in rural area it is not the same, mainly due to the size of counties / amount of trained officers, it is compounded with the issue of forces sharing resources, in my example, a ARU could be in Yeovil and needed in Gloucester, now thats a rather large distance to travel


    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post

    Maybe they don't have the resources to train everyone, or the resources to buy units for all, or maybe there's just no need for every officer to have one as the typical type of crime doesn't demand it.

    Whatever the reason(s) for them not giving tasers to all officers, you can multiply it by ten for guns.
    it could well be the cost of them ? ? ? we know in real money the Police have for years had budgets cut

  4. #124

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    I fully understand that training them all to carry arms would take time, but lets start, lets get more trained, the armed officers will be wearing body cams, so they will know they are being filmed and will not have free reign to " pop a cap "
    Out of interest, if every police officer carried a gun, do you think that would make criminals more or less likely to carry them too? If you think it's more likely, how do you suppose that improves public safety?

  5. #125

    Re: Arm our officers

    Originally Posted by blue matt
    "I fully understand that training them all to carry arms would take time, but lets start, lets get more trained, the armed officers will be wearing body cams, so they will know they are being filmed and will not have free reign to " pop a cap ""

    What you mean like American law enforcement officers who have been regularly filmed shooting people even they though know they are being filmed ?
    Doesn"t seem to have stopped them now does it ?

  6. #126

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Out of interest, if every police officer carried a gun, do you think that would make criminals more or less likely to carry them too? If you think it's more likely, how do you suppose that improves public safety?
    I couldnt answer that, as I am not a criminal

    though having worked the doors in cardiff a little many years ago, i know ( at that time ) it was easy enough to get a gun, so i guess if a criminal really wanted a gun, they would be able to get one

  7. #127

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    Originally Posted by blue matt
    "I fully understand that training them all to carry arms would take time, but lets start, lets get more trained, the armed officers will be wearing body cams, so they will know they are being filmed and will not have free reign to " pop a cap ""

    What you mean like American law enforcement officers who have been regularly filmed shooting people even they though know they are being filmed ?
    Doesn"t seem to have stopped them now does it ?
    so we are bringing the US into the argument, i guess it was expected

  8. #128

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    so we are bringing the US into the argument, i guess it was expected
    The US will always be in the argument when it comes to arming the police as the rise of social media and camera phones have shown that a large number of US officers overstep the mark when using their weapons.

  9. #129

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    The US will always be in the argument when it comes to arming the police as the rise of social media and camera phones have shown that a large number of US officers overstep the mark when using their weapons.
    of course, but maybe, just maybe, our police officers wouldnt ? ? ? ?

  10. #130

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    of course, but maybe, just maybe, our police officers wouldnt ? ? ? ?
    It must be a wonderful way to view life.

    Bliss in fact

  11. #131

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    of course, but maybe, just maybe, our police officers wouldnt ? ? ? ?
    Certainly not to the same extent, but I'd really prefer not to be in the position to find out. Its a chance that doesn't need to be taken.

  12. #132
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    of course, but maybe, just maybe, our police officers wouldnt ? ? ? ?
    Almost impossibly naive of you. For a guy who has a buddy for every occasion I'd have thought you'd be a bit more worldly.

  13. #133

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    Certainly not to the same extent, but I'd really prefer not to be in the position to find out. Its a chance that doesn't need to be taken.
    fair enough

    we have a top notch police force, yes they make mistakes, but in general, they do a good job

    maybe we will never know what would happen if we armed them, the thing we do need to look at it offering them more protection and the tools to go about the job they bravely do, if that it more tazers or guns ? ? ? then so be it

  14. #134

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    There's so much wrong with that and you appear to me to be so clouded that I'm not going to respond to it except to say that I think you're being naive about the realities of giving guns to the police force and I think it's a terrible idea for so many reasons.
    oh and just as the discussion comes around to the US and more are joining in, you come back

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Almost impossibly naive of you. For a guy who has a buddy for every occasion I'd have thought you'd be a bit more worldly.

  15. #135
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    oh and just as the discussion comes around to the US and more are joining in, you come back



    I suppose I shouldn't have expected strong logical skills from someone who thinks the solution to violence is more weapons.

  16. #136
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    HOW CN U B SURE HAVE U AKSED THEM ALL
    You paranoiac tart

  17. #137
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    You paranoic tart

  18. #138

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Almost impossibly naive of you. For a guy who has a buddy for every occasion I'd have thought you'd be a bit more worldly.

  19. #139

    Re: Arm our officers

    great thread, totally derailed but non the less
    Green Bay Wisconsin Title town USA

  20. #140
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    great thread, totally derailed but non the less
    How is it derailed? The OP was about giving all the police guns and that's still what's being talked about.

    If anything, people like you steaming into the thread shouting "bollocks" like a drunkard and accusing people of being angry for no reason is the closest this thread came to derailment.

  21. #141

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    How is it derailed? The OP was about giving all the police guns and that's still what's being talked about.

    If anything, people like you steaming into the thread shouting "bollocks" like a drunkard and accusing people of being angry for no reason is the closest this thread came to derailment.
    really, you talked bollocks and later apologised, thread is just tennis between mickey mouse and the rest. for what its worth mickey is wrong but he cant see it
    Green Bay Wisconsin Title town USA

  22. #142

    Re: Arm our officers

    Maybe every police offer should be armed with Blue Matt the complete weapon that he is.

    I don't think I've ever seen anyone ever put forward a worse argument for anything in the history of this board.

    Thats ignoring the fact he used the American police as a point for the police being armed!

  23. #143
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    really, you talked bollocks and later apologised, thread is just tennis between mickey mouse and the rest. for what its worth mickey is wrong but he cant see it
    I apologised for the brash phrasing I used in the light of yesterdays events, the point I was making is valid.

    Maybe if thread derailment is a concern for you, next time you'll take the time to articulate your thoughts rather than bursting in just shouting "bollocks" as if it's helpful to anyone.

  24. #144
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Maybe every police offer should be armed with Blue Matt the complete weapon that he is.

    I don't think I've ever seen anyone ever put forward a worse argument for anything in the history of this board.

    Thats ignoring the fact he used the American police as a point for the police being armed!
    He brought the US police up in the first place, I pointed out that we didn't even need to look to the US to see how bad an idea it is, then he moaned when other people talked about the US.

  25. #145

    Re: Arm our officers

    I would shit you in the farce if you came at me with a big chupper.
    Hole Hotler!

  26. #146
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Officer Crabtree View Post
    I would shit you in the farce if you came at me with a big chupper.

  27. #147

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    I apologised for the brash phrasing I used in the light of yesterdays events, the point I was making is valid.

    Maybe if thread derailment is a concern for you, next time you'll take the time to articulate your thoughts rather than bursting in just shouting "bollocks" as if it's helpful to anyone.
    as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely
    Green Bay Wisconsin Title town USA

  28. #148

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    He brought the US police up in the first place, I pointed out that we didn't even need to look to the US to see how bad an idea it is, then he moaned when other people talked about the US.
    just as a counter balance most european police seem to be armed without mass shootings in the streets
    Green Bay Wisconsin Title town USA

  29. #149

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    M

    Thats ignoring the fact he used the American police as a point for the police being armed!
    really ? ? ? did I ? ? ?

    I like to think our police force is slightly better than the US

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    He brought the US police up in the first place, I pointed out that we didn't even need to look to the US to see how bad an idea it is, then he moaned when other people talked about the US.
    really ? ? ?



    because its easy to use the US and its armed officers are a example to win the " we do not want to arm our police "

    argument


    I think that our police force is slightly better trained and behaved that the US

    then you had nothing to say ? ? ?

  30. #150
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely
    Pah, people coming on here who know what they're talking abou and talking sense based on their experience??? Away with you man.

    Seriously though, respect to you sir.

    In a side note, when I was at uni we played rugby against the met, hard as fookin nails the lot of them. I also used to play for Orpington and we had a couple of officers from the met who were bonkers

  31. #151
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely
    Now that's a great contribution, nicely said.

  32. #152

    Re: Arm our officers

    A big no from me, I was in France during the Euros and I was a uncomfortable with seeing the Army on the streets as well as heavily armed police, I know it was a necessity but I would hate for that to become the norm here.

    Besides why is there such a knee jerk reaction to yesterdays events? There was little that could have been done to stop what happened. I thought our emergency services did a terrific job of minimising what could have been a far worse situation. It's tragic that people died but the death toll was low compared to similar attacks in Berlin and especially Nice. I am not sure if arming the police will have stopped what happened yesterday.

  33. #153

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Pah, people coming on here who know what they're talking abou and talking sense based on their experience??? Away with you man.

    Seriously though, respect to you sir.

    In a side note, when I was at uni we played rugby against the met, hard as fookin nails the lot of them. I also used to play for Orpington and we had a couple of officers from the met who were bonkers
    everybody wanted to get stuck into the met rugby team, so tended to get their retaliation in first
    Green Bay Wisconsin Title town USA

  34. #154
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    really ? ? ? did I ? ? ?

    I like to think our police force is slightly better than the US



    really ? ? ?



    because its easy to use the US and its armed officers are a example to win the " we do not want to arm our police "

    argument


    I think that our police force is slightly better trained and behaved that the US

    then you had nothing to say ? ? ?
    I can't even tell what you're talking about or who you're quoting here. I really am giving up on talking to you now.

    And as a bit of advice, the extra question marks don't help your argument, they just make you appear erratic and exasperated.

  35. #155
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948 View Post
    A big no from me, I was in France during the Euros and I was a uncomfortable with seeing the Army on the streets as well as heavily armed police, I know it was a necessity but I would hate for that to become the norm here.

    Besides why is there such a knee jerk reaction to yesterdays events? There was little that could have been done to stop what happened. I thought our emergency services did a terrific job of minimising what could have been a far worse situation. It's tragic that people died but the death toll was low compared to similar attacks in Berlin and especially Nice. I am not sure if arming the police will have stopped what happened yesterday.
    Another good post. Not sure how accurate it is, but I've read a report that the armed officers on scene immediately ran to the car but in the confusion the driver made his way through the crowd and went for the unarmed policeman and was actually shot by the nearest armed office, a minister's close protection officer.
    As you say, the bravery and professionalism of our police and other emergency services yesterday was something we should all applaud and be proud of, but it's difficult to understand what else they could've done. They are a credit to our country.

  36. #156

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    I can't even tell what you're talking about or who you're quoting here. I really am giving up on talking to you now.

    And as a bit of advice, the extra question marks don't help your argument, they just make you appear erratic and exasperated.
    Aye ok

    you know that is what i posted about the US police

  37. #157

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely
    As an ex copper of 13 years who left in 2014 I agree with above . I didnt want to be armed and some ( not the majority ) I wouldn't trust with a stapler. One Copper who was desperate to be armed used to play shooting games at home all night, thank **** he failed the tests otherwise he'd have been Maniac Cop meets Tackleberry from Police academy.
    I think more Cops should be trained up, and also personally think there should be more Cops full stop.

    Ironic Theresa May praising them yesterday when her and Tom Winsor have been ****ing over the various Police organisations over the country since 2010.

  38. #158

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely
    welcome to the thread, even though disagree with me

    as you say, the answer must be to have more ARU's, i have used rural area's as a example, over 30 mins ETA to the furthest town in the county

    you mention not all would want to be armed, what type of % do you think it would be ? ? ( I am planning to ask my mate this tomorrow ) i have mentioned in this thread the bloke next door using his tazer and the comebacks on it, he is still worried about it now

    I have sent this thread to a AR Officer in the met, he has replied to me, that he will read it later

  39. #159
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Matt's all over the place here today

  40. #160

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    As an ex copper of 13 years who left in 2014 I agree with above . I didnt want to be armed and some ( not the majority ) I wouldn't trust with a stapler. One Copper who was desperate to be armed used to play shooting games at home all night, thank **** he failed the tests otherwise he'd have been Maniac Cop meets Tackleberry from Police academy.
    I think more Cops should be trained up, and also personally think there should be more Cops full stop.

    Ironic Theresa May praising them yesterday when her and Tom Winsor have been ****ing over the various Police organisations over the country since 2010.
    often the john wayne types who really want to carry fail the tests or get weeded out during training , thank feck as you say as they make everyone nervous,
    Green Bay Wisconsin Title town USA

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