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Thread: Arm our officers

  1. #151

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely
    Now that's a great contribution, nicely said.

  2. #152

    Re: Arm our officers

    A big no from me, I was in France during the Euros and I was a uncomfortable with seeing the Army on the streets as well as heavily armed police, I know it was a necessity but I would hate for that to become the norm here.

    Besides why is there such a knee jerk reaction to yesterdays events? There was little that could have been done to stop what happened. I thought our emergency services did a terrific job of minimising what could have been a far worse situation. It's tragic that people died but the death toll was low compared to similar attacks in Berlin and especially Nice. I am not sure if arming the police will have stopped what happened yesterday.

  3. #153

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Pah, people coming on here who know what they're talking abou and talking sense based on their experience??? Away with you man.

    Seriously though, respect to you sir.

    In a side note, when I was at uni we played rugby against the met, hard as fookin nails the lot of them. I also used to play for Orpington and we had a couple of officers from the met who were bonkers
    everybody wanted to get stuck into the met rugby team, so tended to get their retaliation in first

  4. #154

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    really ? ? ? did I ? ? ?

    I like to think our police force is slightly better than the US



    really ? ? ?



    because its easy to use the US and its armed officers are a example to win the " we do not want to arm our police "

    argument


    I think that our police force is slightly better trained and behaved that the US

    then you had nothing to say ? ? ?
    I can't even tell what you're talking about or who you're quoting here. I really am giving up on talking to you now.

    And as a bit of advice, the extra question marks don't help your argument, they just make you appear erratic and exasperated.

  5. #155
    International TH63's Avatar
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948 View Post
    A big no from me, I was in France during the Euros and I was a uncomfortable with seeing the Army on the streets as well as heavily armed police, I know it was a necessity but I would hate for that to become the norm here.

    Besides why is there such a knee jerk reaction to yesterdays events? There was little that could have been done to stop what happened. I thought our emergency services did a terrific job of minimising what could have been a far worse situation. It's tragic that people died but the death toll was low compared to similar attacks in Berlin and especially Nice. I am not sure if arming the police will have stopped what happened yesterday.
    Another good post. Not sure how accurate it is, but I've read a report that the armed officers on scene immediately ran to the car but in the confusion the driver made his way through the crowd and went for the unarmed policeman and was actually shot by the nearest armed office, a minister's close protection officer.
    As you say, the bravery and professionalism of our police and other emergency services yesterday was something we should all applaud and be proud of, but it's difficult to understand what else they could've done. They are a credit to our country.

  6. #156

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    I can't even tell what you're talking about or who you're quoting here. I really am giving up on talking to you now.

    And as a bit of advice, the extra question marks don't help your argument, they just make you appear erratic and exasperated.
    Aye ok

    you know that is what i posted about the US police

  7. #157

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely
    As an ex copper of 13 years who left in 2014 I agree with above . I didnt want to be armed and some ( not the majority ) I wouldn't trust with a stapler. One Copper who was desperate to be armed used to play shooting games at home all night, thank **** he failed the tests otherwise he'd have been Maniac Cop meets Tackleberry from Police academy.
    I think more Cops should be trained up, and also personally think there should be more Cops full stop.

    Ironic Theresa May praising them yesterday when her and Tom Winsor have been ****ing over the various Police organisations over the country since 2010.

  8. #158

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely
    welcome to the thread, even though disagree with me

    as you say, the answer must be to have more ARU's, i have used rural area's as a example, over 30 mins ETA to the furthest town in the county

    you mention not all would want to be armed, what type of % do you think it would be ? ? ( I am planning to ask my mate this tomorrow ) i have mentioned in this thread the bloke next door using his tazer and the comebacks on it, he is still worried about it now

    I have sent this thread to a AR Officer in the met, he has replied to me, that he will read it later

  9. #159
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Matt's all over the place here today

  10. #160

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    As an ex copper of 13 years who left in 2014 I agree with above . I didnt want to be armed and some ( not the majority ) I wouldn't trust with a stapler. One Copper who was desperate to be armed used to play shooting games at home all night, thank **** he failed the tests otherwise he'd have been Maniac Cop meets Tackleberry from Police academy.
    I think more Cops should be trained up, and also personally think there should be more Cops full stop.

    Ironic Theresa May praising them yesterday when her and Tom Winsor have been ****ing over the various Police organisations over the country since 2010.
    often the john wayne types who really want to carry fail the tests or get weeded out during training , thank feck as you say as they make everyone nervous,

  11. #161

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    welcome to the thread, even though disagree with me

    as you say, the answer must be to have more ARU's, i have used rural area's as a example, over 30 mins ETA to the furthest town in the county

    you mention not all would want to be armed, what type of % do you think it would be ? ? ( I am planning to ask my mate this tomorrow ) i have mentioned in this thread the bloke next door using his tazer and the comebacks on it, he is still worried about it now

    I have sent this thread to a AR Officer in the met, he has replied to me, that he will read it later

    the majority in my experience, as i said a huge responsibility, reasonable force can be a bastard when you have spray, perhaps a taser and a gun, split second to decide

  12. #162

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Matt's all over the place here today

    boys got stamina though

  13. #163

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Matt's all over the place here today
    Not really, i still believe that the police should be armed, just interested in Packermans View. maybe discussion with someone who has been on the " front line " might make me see it differently ( i will also be chatting tomorrow to blokey next door ) afterall its got to be better than the opinion of people who " just dislike the police "

  14. #164

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    the majority in my experience, as i said a huge responsibility, reasonable force can be a bastard when you have spray, perhaps a taser and a gun, split second to decide
    how long you been out ? ? ?

    genuinely interested in this armed dilemma from people who have done it

  15. #165
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Not really, i still believe that the police should be armed, just interested in Packermans View. maybe discussion with someone who has been on the " front line " might make me see it differently ( i will also be chatting tomorrow to blokey next door ) afterall its got to be better than the opinion of people who " just dislike the police "
    You've had two former officer now more or less confirming what the colonel's been saying, in fact one of them said, and I quote, "I wouldn't trust some of them with a stapler"

  16. #166

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    how long you been out ? ? ?

    genuinely interested in this armed dilemma from people who have done it
    retired in 2011,

  17. #167

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    do terrorists target villages?
    Well no - so absolutely no need for the village bobby to be packing a glock really

  18. #168

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    You've had two former officer now more or less confirming what the colonel's been saying, in fact one of them said, and I quote, "I wouldn't trust some of them with a stapler"
    they have opinions ( which i respect ) , i have mine, hardly " all over the place "

  19. #169
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    they have opinions ( which i respect ) , i have mine, hardly " all over the place "
    With respect (genuinely) , I value their opinion over yours.

  20. #170

    Re: Arm our officers

    My believed opinion is that the Policeman who fired that shot yesterday will be investigated thoroughly , interviewed, his clothes taken at time he was wearing and he will be left sweating for a period of time whilst it is decided if he carried out his actions lawfully.

    I once went into a custody suite where a bloke brought in on drunk and disorderly has a massive heart attack and died. All sorts of ailments bless him and nothing could be done. I had nothing to do with him but was still investigated throughly as I happened to be in the acells in another matter.
    So I give respect to my ex colleagues who take up armed duties as it's a hell of a responsibility especially when you take a shot .

  21. #171

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    retired in 2011,
    i wonder if the % has changed with the " new terrorist threats "

  22. #172

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    With respect (genuinely) , I value their opinion over yours.
    and so you should, they have done it, i have no issues with that

    I welcomed Packerman ( I didnt cardiffirsh as i missed it ) to the discussion, i would rather have a discussion with someone who has been on the front line over someone who " just doesnt like the police "

  23. #173

    Re: Arm our officers

    I actually know a former AR unit officer in a rural police force, he served for maybe a decade before switching to the canine unit maybe five years ago. I have not spoken to him about it recently but he said switching was like a weight off his shoulders. Although as far as I am aware he never had to kill anyone there were plenty of moment where he must have come close. He also told me they delve into your personal live and you must inform them of any significant changes. He eventually got moved because he was having an affair and his wife found out about it and the powers that be decided that was enough to move him over.

    It goes to show that not everyone can handle that pressure, it should only be for those who can.

  24. #174

    Re: Arm our officers

    [QUOTE=CardiffIrish2;4728975]My believed opinion is that the Policeman who fired that shot yesterday will be investigated thoroughly , interviewed, his clothes taken at time he was wearing and he will be left sweating for a period of time whilst it is decided if he carried out his actions lawfully.

    /QUOTE]

    which is the way it should be, while I would trust the call of the guy 100% ( naive maybe ) when he takes a life, of course it needs to be justified, which leads me to our police force being a step above the US

  25. #175

    Re: Arm our officers

    Well his thread has taken a pleasantly informed turn.

  26. #176

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    My believed opinion is that the Policeman who fired that shot yesterday will be investigated thoroughly , interviewed, his clothes taken at time he was wearing and he will be left sweating for a period of time whilst it is decided if he carried out his actions lawfully.
    I think it should be investigated fully but I don't think he will have anything to worry about and will certainly not be left sweating. It's important anyone killed by the police whoever it may be be fully investigated.

  27. #177

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    i wonder if the % has changed with the " new terrorist threats "
    vaste majority of police are not involved with policing terrorism unless they are on patrols or cordons etc after the event, the daily slog for the majority is reporting burglaries, domestics, assaults etc and generally chasing their tails for the whole shift, actual preventative policing is dying out, no time

  28. #178

    Re: Arm our officers

    I agree from an objective point of view. My thinking is somewhat different as I remember that aforementioned grilling I had .
    I feel for the officer, he's done the right thing but it's going to be a potracted affair waiting for that final seal of approval that he did nothing wrong.

  29. #179

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    vaste majority of police are not involved with policing terrorism unless they are on patrols or cordons etc after the event, the daily slog for the majority is reporting burglaries, domestics, assaults etc and generally chasing their tails for the whole shift, actual preventative policing is dying out, no time
    the guy next door to me is aware of the threat of " being killed in a terror attack ", infact a few years ago, they were all told to change into Civvy clothes to go home, as the threat of a policeman being killed in a attack was real, it must have been after Lee Rigby was murdered

    I have discussed that with him, he hates it that his wife and family worry about him at work, it pee's him of alot, he often moans, i would have been better of being a window cleaner

  30. #180

    Re: Arm our officers

    I don't think there's been one decent point made that all police should be armed.

    In this country the ones in high risk areas are.

    In America plenty of innocent people get killed.

    The whole idea is an over reaction to a terrorist attack that whilst terrible seems to have been dealt with in a fairly straightforward way.

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