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Thread: Arm our officers

  1. #161

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    welcome to the thread, even though disagree with me

    as you say, the answer must be to have more ARU's, i have used rural area's as a example, over 30 mins ETA to the furthest town in the county

    you mention not all would want to be armed, what type of % do you think it would be ? ? ( I am planning to ask my mate this tomorrow ) i have mentioned in this thread the bloke next door using his tazer and the comebacks on it, he is still worried about it now

    I have sent this thread to a AR Officer in the met, he has replied to me, that he will read it later

    the majority in my experience, as i said a huge responsibility, reasonable force can be a bastard when you have spray, perhaps a taser and a gun, split second to decide

  2. #162

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Matt's all over the place here today

    boys got stamina though

  3. #163

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Matt's all over the place here today
    Not really, i still believe that the police should be armed, just interested in Packermans View. maybe discussion with someone who has been on the " front line " might make me see it differently ( i will also be chatting tomorrow to blokey next door ) afterall its got to be better than the opinion of people who " just dislike the police "

  4. #164

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    the majority in my experience, as i said a huge responsibility, reasonable force can be a bastard when you have spray, perhaps a taser and a gun, split second to decide
    how long you been out ? ? ?

    genuinely interested in this armed dilemma from people who have done it

  5. #165
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Not really, i still believe that the police should be armed, just interested in Packermans View. maybe discussion with someone who has been on the " front line " might make me see it differently ( i will also be chatting tomorrow to blokey next door ) afterall its got to be better than the opinion of people who " just dislike the police "
    You've had two former officer now more or less confirming what the colonel's been saying, in fact one of them said, and I quote, "I wouldn't trust some of them with a stapler"

  6. #166

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    how long you been out ? ? ?

    genuinely interested in this armed dilemma from people who have done it
    retired in 2011,

  7. #167

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    do terrorists target villages?
    Well no - so absolutely no need for the village bobby to be packing a glock really

  8. #168

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    You've had two former officer now more or less confirming what the colonel's been saying, in fact one of them said, and I quote, "I wouldn't trust some of them with a stapler"
    they have opinions ( which i respect ) , i have mine, hardly " all over the place "

  9. #169
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    they have opinions ( which i respect ) , i have mine, hardly " all over the place "
    With respect (genuinely) , I value their opinion over yours.

  10. #170

    Re: Arm our officers

    My believed opinion is that the Policeman who fired that shot yesterday will be investigated thoroughly , interviewed, his clothes taken at time he was wearing and he will be left sweating for a period of time whilst it is decided if he carried out his actions lawfully.

    I once went into a custody suite where a bloke brought in on drunk and disorderly has a massive heart attack and died. All sorts of ailments bless him and nothing could be done. I had nothing to do with him but was still investigated throughly as I happened to be in the acells in another matter.
    So I give respect to my ex colleagues who take up armed duties as it's a hell of a responsibility especially when you take a shot .

  11. #171

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    retired in 2011,
    i wonder if the % has changed with the " new terrorist threats "

  12. #172

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    With respect (genuinely) , I value their opinion over yours.
    and so you should, they have done it, i have no issues with that

    I welcomed Packerman ( I didnt cardiffirsh as i missed it ) to the discussion, i would rather have a discussion with someone who has been on the front line over someone who " just doesnt like the police "

  13. #173

    Re: Arm our officers

    I actually know a former AR unit officer in a rural police force, he served for maybe a decade before switching to the canine unit maybe five years ago. I have not spoken to him about it recently but he said switching was like a weight off his shoulders. Although as far as I am aware he never had to kill anyone there were plenty of moment where he must have come close. He also told me they delve into your personal live and you must inform them of any significant changes. He eventually got moved because he was having an affair and his wife found out about it and the powers that be decided that was enough to move him over.

    It goes to show that not everyone can handle that pressure, it should only be for those who can.

  14. #174

    Re: Arm our officers

    [QUOTE=CardiffIrish2;4728975]My believed opinion is that the Policeman who fired that shot yesterday will be investigated thoroughly , interviewed, his clothes taken at time he was wearing and he will be left sweating for a period of time whilst it is decided if he carried out his actions lawfully.

    /QUOTE]

    which is the way it should be, while I would trust the call of the guy 100% ( naive maybe ) when he takes a life, of course it needs to be justified, which leads me to our police force being a step above the US

  15. #175

    Re: Arm our officers

    Well his thread has taken a pleasantly informed turn.

  16. #176

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    My believed opinion is that the Policeman who fired that shot yesterday will be investigated thoroughly , interviewed, his clothes taken at time he was wearing and he will be left sweating for a period of time whilst it is decided if he carried out his actions lawfully.
    I think it should be investigated fully but I don't think he will have anything to worry about and will certainly not be left sweating. It's important anyone killed by the police whoever it may be be fully investigated.

  17. #177

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    i wonder if the % has changed with the " new terrorist threats "
    vaste majority of police are not involved with policing terrorism unless they are on patrols or cordons etc after the event, the daily slog for the majority is reporting burglaries, domestics, assaults etc and generally chasing their tails for the whole shift, actual preventative policing is dying out, no time

  18. #178

    Re: Arm our officers

    I agree from an objective point of view. My thinking is somewhat different as I remember that aforementioned grilling I had .
    I feel for the officer, he's done the right thing but it's going to be a potracted affair waiting for that final seal of approval that he did nothing wrong.

  19. #179

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    vaste majority of police are not involved with policing terrorism unless they are on patrols or cordons etc after the event, the daily slog for the majority is reporting burglaries, domestics, assaults etc and generally chasing their tails for the whole shift, actual preventative policing is dying out, no time
    the guy next door to me is aware of the threat of " being killed in a terror attack ", infact a few years ago, they were all told to change into Civvy clothes to go home, as the threat of a policeman being killed in a attack was real, it must have been after Lee Rigby was murdered

    I have discussed that with him, he hates it that his wife and family worry about him at work, it pee's him of alot, he often moans, i would have been better of being a window cleaner

  20. #180

    Re: Arm our officers

    I don't think there's been one decent point made that all police should be armed.

    In this country the ones in high risk areas are.

    In America plenty of innocent people get killed.

    The whole idea is an over reaction to a terrorist attack that whilst terrible seems to have been dealt with in a fairly straightforward way.

  21. #181

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    I couldnt answer that, as I am not a criminal

    though having worked the doors in cardiff a little many years ago, i know ( at that time ) it was easy enough to get a gun, so i guess if a criminal really wanted a gun, they would be able to get one
    That doesn't answer my question at all. Getting a gun wasn't my question, you admit that getting one is easy. My question is would criminals etc be more likely to carry them if they knew the police would be.

    My feeling is that they would be more likely to carry guns. The possibility of being shot is not so much of a deterrent, more of a problem that needs to be overcome. More guns = less safety. America is proof of that.

  22. #182
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    I agree from an objective point of view. My thinking is somewhat different as I remember that aforementioned grilling I had .
    I feel for the officer, he's done the right thing but it's going to be a potracted affair waiting for that final seal of approval that he did nothing wrong.
    I suspect the tabloids/media/public would become apoplectic if the officer was is subsequently seen to get given a hard time or negative outcome over his actions, particularly in light of the level and style of media coverage we have seen over the last 24 hrs.

    The whole area is now, understandably, so very emotive.

  23. #183

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    I agree from an objective point of view. My thinking is somewhat different as I remember that aforementioned grilling I had .
    I feel for the officer, he's done the right thing but it's going to be a potracted affair waiting for that final seal of approval that he did nothing wrong.
    The officer won't have anything to worry about. One of his colleagues had just been murdered. He had to shoot and if necessary to kill to protect lives.
    As for wholesale arming of the Police I would hate to see that happen. Arming police forces with tazers would seem like a sensible compromise.

  24. #184

    Re: Arm our officers

    Armed police during the miners strike or the Brixton riots etc. let alone the footy events of the 70's and 80's would be horrible to imagine.

    The lesson earned at Peterloo is a lesson that should ALWAYS be remembered.

  25. #185

    Re: Arm our officers

    Good, enjoyable thread, with some very informative contributions. Well done to blue Matt for sticking in there, and fighting lots of fires. I never want to see all our police armed, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

  26. #186

    Re: Arm our officers

    Whilst it is all very spectacular and nerve raking when these events happen, the UK and Europe is still a considerably very safe place. People worried about terror attacks in the UK are backing the wrong horse, knife crime is the UK plague!!

    Some data here that puts terrorist attack into numbers.
    http://www.datagraver.com/case/peopl...rope-1970-2015

  27. #187

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely
    retired?? you ****ing lazy ****. do you have an issue with working or what? there are folk in this country that wuld kill for the chance of a job. you are a disgrace son.

  28. #188
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by kingbillyboy View Post
    retired?? you ****ing lazy ****. do you have an issue with working or what? there are folk in this country that wuld kill for the chance of a job. you are a disgrace son.
    Behave he has plenty to do.

  29. #189

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by kingbillyboy View Post
    retired?? you ****ing lazy ****. do you have an issue with working or what? there are folk in this country that wuldkill for the chance of a job. you are a disgrace son.

  30. #190

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by kingbillyboy View Post
    retired?? you ****ing lazy ****. do you have an issue with working or what? there are folk in this country that wuld kill for the chance of a job. you are a disgrace son.
    somebody must have mistaken your head for a lambeg drum when you was a lad

  31. #191

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R View Post
    Behave he has plenty to do.
    Is it paid work

  32. #192

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Temujin View Post
    Armed police during the miners strike or the Brixton riots etc. let alone the footy events of the 70's and 80's would be horrible to imagine.

    The lesson earned at Peterloo is a lesson that should ALWAYS be remembered.
    Know your history

  33. #193

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Know your history
    Peterloo was the army, cavalry to be precise

  34. #194

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    Peterloo was the army, cavalry to be precise
    Of course it was, the police hadn't been formed yet.

  35. #195

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Of course it was, the police hadn't been formed yet.
    know your history

  36. #196

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    know your history
    The Peterloo Massacre occurred at St Peter's Field, Manchester, England, on 16 August 1819.

    Greater Manchester Police had its early origins in the Metropolitan Manchester City Police which formed sometime in the 1830s, just after the Metropolitan Police Force in London.

    What's your point?

  37. #197

    Re: Arm our officers

    [QUOTE=Wales-Bales;4729464]The Peterloo Massacre occurred at St Peter's Field, Manchester, England, on 16 August 1819.

    Greater Manchester Police had its early origins in the Metropolitan Manchester City Police which formed sometime in the 1830s, just after the Metropolitan Police Force in London.

    What's your point?[/QUOTE
    just mentioning it was the army when the thread is about arming the police , is that ok with you oh wise one

  38. #198

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    just mentioning it was the army when the thread is about arming the police , is that ok with you oh wise one
    And I was just mentioning that somebody higher up decided it was a good idea to put armed government employees in amonst a crowd of unarmed civilians. So while we are here, it might be a good idea to ask who was that somebody, why did they think it was a good idea, and for what purpose? We could also ask if there are any parallels with the call by some to arm a group of present day government employees, who will predominantly be amonst crowds of unarmed civilians on a daily basis.

  39. #199

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    And I was just mentioning that somebody higher up decided it was a good idea to put armed government employees in amonst a crowd of unarmed civilians. So while we are here, it might be a good idea to ask who was that somebody, why did they think it was a good idea, and for what purpose? We could also ask if there are any parallels with the call by some to arm a group of present day government employees, who will predominantly be amonst crowds of unarmed civilians on a daily basis.
    i,m against it as i have previously stated, cant see the parallel between 1819 army and modern day policing tbh, i'll leave you to the last word now, of out, suns shining etc

  40. #200

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    i,m against it as i have previously stated, cant see the parallel between 1819 army and modern day policing tbh, i'll leave you to the last word now, of out, suns shining etc
    Let's say in the current day and age, a huge crowd of disgruntled citizens had a very valid reason to march on parliament. I know you are against arming the police, but can anybody say for sure a similar outcome could not happen again? And this is besides all the trigger-finger events that are likely to occur on a regular basis.

    PS no sun here

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