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Thread: Arm our officers

  1. #101

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    I am in agreement with you as in I wouldn't want all our police to be armed, but your barbed comments toward them seem to be a bit ott. You've obviously had a bad/some bad experiences with plod, which is your business, but they do a thankless job.
    Can you imagine what it's like to be a copper involved in social riots, or having to control hundreds of Neanderthals at football grounds up and down the country, or finding dead bodies, dead babies, smashed up teenagers in RTA's, etc.?
    We all know that corruption and bullying takes place in all walks of life, but no amount of cash would persuade me to join the fuzz in this day and age. Just be thankful that there are youngsters out there who still want to join.
    No, you're quite right. I thought about it afterwards and my comments about a certain type of police officer were a bit brash, especially in light of what happened yesterday so apologies to anyone I offended with that.

  2. #102

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    No, you're quite right. I thought about it afterwards and my comments about a certain type of police officer were a bit brash, especially in light of what happened yesterday so apologies to anyone I offended with that.

  3. #103

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    I guess when you make a mistake, you post a picture of a lorry getting stuck under a bridge on a haulage companies FB page, yet these Police officers in the case of Jean de Menzies made a mistake the day after a failed bombing attempt and shot the wrong guy, mistakes were made, the whole procedure has been tightened up, yet we know they will make a mistake again, people do

    so thats another bad mark against the " BAD Lowly paid civil servant meathead bobby's with superiority-complex who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others " Eh
    I don't even know what point you're trying to argue any more, all I know is that giving firearms to the entire police force would do more harm than good and none of your daft examples or endless quoting of my comments will change that.

  4. #104

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I think you're missing the point (perhaps on purpose) that arming all police officers is a turning point, there's no going back once it's done. So the gun is just there for protection and to stop terrorists - how many times will an average officer come across a terrorist? None of the police officers I know have ever been in a situation where they have needed a gun for protection.

    You talk about someone being stabbed with a knife - I'm sure you remember (perhaps you forgot on purpose) the 'you ain't no muslim bruv' incident. The police successfully tasered him. Didn't need a gun. Otherwise, yesterday's terrorist attacked with a car. Arming officers isn't going to stop that exceedingly rare occurence.

    If anything, the fact that the guy resorted to using a car and a knife rather than a bomb and an automatic is a testament to the good work done by our intelligence services. That's our best weapon, prevention, not chasing after them with a gun after the event.
    the " you aint no muslim bruv " incident took place in london, where more carry tazers ( due to the training ) if it had been in Bath, Salisbury or Yeovil, they would not have had a tazer

    The terrorist is changing, it used to be the IRA and a bomb, it is no some nutter with a knife or machete, as i mentioned in this threat, the bloke next door had to use a tazer at the start of the year ( he is one of the few trained to use it on his shout ) , the guy had a meat cleaver and was coming at Officers, if he hadnt been close, it could well have ended with a officer killed

  5. #105

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    I don't even know what point you're trying to argue any more, all I know is that giving firearms to the entire police force would do more harm than good and none of your daft examples or endless quoting of my comments will change that.
    My point is that i think that arming more police ( then ultimately all ) would give the police a even playing field to do the job they need to do

    so you know " that giving firearms to the entire police force would do more harm than good ", How do you know that ? ? ? ?? how can you know that ? ? ??

  6. #106

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    No, you're quite right. I thought about it afterwards and my comments about a certain type of police officer were a bit brash, especially in light of what happened yesterday so apologies to anyone I offended with that.
    👍

  7. #107

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I think you're missing the point (perhaps on purpose) that arming all police officers is a turning point, there's no going back once it's done. So the gun is just there for protection and to stop terrorists - how many times will an average officer come across a terrorist? None of the police officers I know have ever been in a situation where they have needed a gun for protection.

    You talk about someone being stabbed with a knife - I'm sure you remember (perhaps you forgot on purpose) the 'you ain't no muslim bruv' incident. The police successfully tasered him. Didn't need a gun. Otherwise, yesterday's terrorist attacked with a car. Arming officers isn't going to stop that exceedingly rare occurence.

    If anything, the fact that the guy resorted to using a car and a knife rather than a bomb and an automatic is a testament to the good work done by our intelligence services. That's our best weapon, prevention, not chasing after them with a gun after the event.
    This 100%

    Its like the American idea of counteracting guns is to allow more people access to guns, its mental. That can only end up badly.
    This is an interesting read.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ain?CMP=twt_gu

    No amount of guns on the streets will stop someone targeting a group of people with a car as a weapon.
    Last edited by Charlie; 23-03-17 at 10:25.

  8. #108

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    the " you aint no muslim bruv " incident took place in london, where more carry tazers ( due to the training ) if it had been in Bath, Salisbury or Yeovil, they would not have had a tazer

    The terrorist is changing, it used to be the IRA and a bomb, it is no some nutter with a knife or machete, as i mentioned in this threat, the bloke next door had to use a tazer at the start of the year ( he is one of the few trained to use it on his shout ) , the guy had a meat cleaver and was coming at Officers, if he hadnt been close, it could well have ended with a officer killed
    Why don't police in Bath, Salisbury or Yeovil have tasers?

  9. #109

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    My point is that i think that arming more police ( then ultimately all ) would give the police a even playing field to do the job they need to do

    so you know " that giving firearms to the entire police force would do more harm than good ", How do you know that ? ? ? ?? how can you know that ? ? ??
    Well you've already had one example with the Menezes incident. A police officer is killed with a knife and you want to give guns to thousands of people and yet an innocent man is shot by police and you've got all manner of excuses for it.

    You're just inviting a police state under which the general public would be completely unable to counter. We're already under surveillance, our rights to congregate and protest are getting curtailed and I don't see arming the police as a good thing for everyday folk in the long run.

    I think the difference here is that you feel like you can trust the police force and the government to always do the right thing by the people whereas I think that is naive.

    Also, if thousands of new firearms start flooding in some of them will find their way into the hands of criminals. Corruption exists within the police force whether you like it or not. The moment one of these criminals uses a gun on someone, the whole experiment of arming the police would have failed.

    Again, I urge you to ask the police officers you know if they 100% trust every officer they've met with a firearm, you might just find that they've probably all come across some of the more hot-headed members of the force who shouldn't be trusted with that kind of responsibility, with or without training.

  10. #110

    Re: Arm our officers

    Gave up on the thread somewhat when Carediffi and Tandy were butting heads to satisfy their ego's but I am surprised there hasn't been more mention of arming the police with taser's.Certainly not in favour of arming them fully but may be time they all carried a taser.

  11. #111

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by GRUMPYS DEN View Post
    Gave up on the thread somewhat when Carediffi and Tandy were butting heads to satisfy their ego's but I am surprised there hasn't been more mention of arming the police with taser's.Certainly not in favour of arming them fully but may be time they all carried a taser.
    Knob.

  12. #112

    Re: Arm our officers

    Reel him in

  13. #113

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Why don't police in Bath, Salisbury or Yeovil have tasers?
    I am sure you know the answer, as i have mentioned it earlier but i will play along

    they do, it is a example, to counter yours of being in london, the trained officers ( normally AR trained officers ) in Bath, Salisbury or Yeovil ( i.e outside bigger cities and espeically london ) could very well be 30 mins away, In London they are not due to the fact that MORE Officers are trained to use them, ( in the days of staff being cut and forces Sharing resources the times can be greater than 30 mins )

  14. #114

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Well you've already had one example with the Menezes incident. A police officer is killed with a knife and you want to give guns to thousands of people and yet an innocent man is shot by police and you've got all manner of excuses for it.
    Not my excuses, they made mistakes, procedures have been changed, they hope that they will stop incidents like Jean de Menzies happening, which was almost 12 years ago, maybe the changes have worked ?? ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    You're just inviting a police state under which the general public would be completely unable to counter. We're already under surveillance, our rights to congregate and protest are getting curtailed and I don't see arming the police as a good thing for everyday folk in the long run.

    I think the difference here is that you feel like you can trust the police force and the government to always do the right thing by the people whereas I think that is naive.
    and here we have the issue, the paranoia, Oh the goverment want us to be under a police state, they are spying on us, i dont want my rights taken away etc etc you carry on with that, i will just live my life and see where it goes if they want to know i am going surfing in a few weeks time, fine, if they want to know i am on my holidays again to the US, no drama, hell they can even see the pictures on FB if they want


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    I think the difference here is that you feel like you can trust the police force and the government to always do the right thing by the people whereas I think that is naive.
    i do trust the police in the way they attempt to keep me safe, solving crimes and trying to keep the bad people ( you know, the real bad people ) at bay, sure we have corrupt people, but every way of life does, naive ? ? ? maybe



    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Also, if thousands of new firearms start flooding in some of them will find their way into the hands of criminals. Corruption exists within the police force whether you like it or not. The moment one of these criminals uses a gun on someone, the whole experiment of arming the police would have failed.
    really, you think police guns will be floating around the pubs yea right


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Again, I urge you to ask the police officers you know if they 100% trust every officer they've met with a firearm, you might just find that they've probably all come across some of the more hot-headed members of the force who shouldn't be trusted with that kind of responsibility, with or without training.
    I will, it will be tomorrow, i thought we were going for a Coffee today, it wasnt, its tomorrow, but as i said, whatever his reply, you will not believe him, as you already have all the facts about the Police

  15. #115

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Well you've already had one example with the Menezes incident. A police officer is killed with a knife and you want to give guns to thousands of people and yet an innocent man is shot by police and you've got all manner of excuses for it.

    You're just inviting a police state under which the general public would be completely unable to counter. We're already under surveillance, our rights to congregate and protest are getting curtailed and I don't see arming the police as a good thing for everyday folk in the long run.

    I think the difference here is that you feel like you can trust the police force and the government to always do the right thing by the people whereas I think that is naive.

    Also, if thousands of new firearms start flooding in some of them will find their way into the hands of criminals. Corruption exists within the police force whether you like it or not. The moment one of these criminals uses a gun on someone, the whole experiment of arming the police would have failed.

    Again, I urge you to ask the police officers you know if they 100% trust every officer they've met with a firearm, you might just find that they've probably all come across some of the more hot-headed members of the force who shouldn't be trusted with that kind of responsibility, with or without training.
    You have form for making remarks like those. Instead of indulging in critical thinking, invest that time viewing some of the many The Housewives of shows and the like. You'll soon become less sceptical of all things Nanny.

  16. #116

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Not my excuses, they made mistakes, procedures have been changed, they hope that they will stop incidents like Jean de Menzies happening, which was almost 12 years ago, maybe the changes have worked ?? ?




    and here we have the issue, the paranoia, Oh the goverment want us to be under a police state, they are spying on us, i dont want my rights taken away etc etc you carry on with that, i will just live my life and see where it goes if they want to know i am going surfing in a few weeks time, fine, if they want to know i am on my holidays again to the US, no drama, hell they can even see the pictures on FB if they want




    i do trust the police in the way they attempt to keep me safe, solving crimes and trying to keep the bad people ( you know, the real bad people ) at bay, sure we have corrupt people, but every way of life does, naive ? ? ? maybe





    really, you think police guns will be floating around the pubs yea right




    I will, it will be tomorrow, i thought we were going for a Coffee today, it wasnt, its tomorrow, but as i said, whatever his reply, you will not believe him, as you already have all the facts about the Police
    There's so much wrong with that and you appear to me to be so clouded that I'm not going to respond to it except to say that I think you're being naive about the realities of giving guns to the police force and I think it's a terrible idea for so many reasons.

  17. #117
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by bobh View Post
    In some circles, yes.
    But many ordinary Joes would try to run off, thinking " let someone else tackle him!"
    no they wouldn't. plenty of people put their own safety second in times like this.

  18. #118

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    You have form for making remarks like those. Instead of indulging in critical thinking, invest that time viewing some of the many The Housewives of shows and the like. You'll soon become less sceptical of all things Nanny.
    Yeah, no shit. Being called paranoid for being concerned about civil rights never gets old.

  19. #119
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiffa View Post
    As you would expect in an airport - one of the places police are armed in numbers

    Now have the same situation with your village bobby and there's not so much back up on hand

    Arming police will simply make terrorists change their tactics, it will not stop them attacking
    do terrorists target villages?

  20. #120

    Re: Arm our officers

    I posted a link earlier which appears to have been overlooked.
    Couple of years ago in New York, a guy with a gun shot and killed his former boss, police responded by shooting him dead and managed to hit NINE innocent bystanders.
    Terrorist and other gun related incidents are thankfully very rare in this country, nigh on unheard of in our fair city, and while I'd support the use of armed officers at high profile events e.g. The champions league final, arming all officers as a matter of course seems to be an overreaction borne out of understandable emotion.
    I'm sure if you asked "regular" police officers if they wanted guns, many would say no.

  21. #121

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    I posted a link earlier which appears to have been overlooked.
    Couple of years ago in New York, a guy with a gun shot and killed his former boss, police responded by shooting him dead and managed to hit NINE innocent bystanders.
    Terrorist and other gun related incidents are thankfully very rare in this country, nigh on unheard of in our fair city, and while I'd support the use of armed officers at high profile events e.g. The champions league final, arming all officers as a matter of course seems to be an overreaction borne out of understandable emotion.
    I'm sure if you asked "regular" police officers if they wanted guns, many would say no.
    HOW CN U B SURE HAVE U AKSED THEM ALL

  22. #122

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    I am sure you know the answer, as i have mentioned it earlier but i will play along

    they do, it is a example, to counter yours of being in london, the trained officers ( normally AR trained officers ) in Bath, Salisbury or Yeovil ( i.e outside bigger cities and espeically london ) could very well be 30 mins away, In London they are not due to the fact that MORE Officers are trained to use them, ( in the days of staff being cut and forces Sharing resources the times can be greater than 30 mins )
    I'm sure you realise that my question was why do these police officers not have tasers, not how do they get around it.

    Maybe they don't have the resources to train everyone, or the resources to buy units for all, or maybe there's just no need for every officer to have one as the typical type of crime doesn't demand it.

    Whatever the reason(s) for them not giving tasers to all officers, you can multiply it by ten for guns.

  23. #123

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I'm sure you realise that my question was why do these police officers not have tasers, not how do they get around it.
    the point of distribution is important here, it is fine to use examples of what happens in London, but in rural area it is not the same, mainly due to the size of counties / amount of trained officers, it is compounded with the issue of forces sharing resources, in my example, a ARU could be in Yeovil and needed in Gloucester, now thats a rather large distance to travel


    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post

    Maybe they don't have the resources to train everyone, or the resources to buy units for all, or maybe there's just no need for every officer to have one as the typical type of crime doesn't demand it.

    Whatever the reason(s) for them not giving tasers to all officers, you can multiply it by ten for guns.
    it could well be the cost of them ? ? ? we know in real money the Police have for years had budgets cut

  24. #124

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    I fully understand that training them all to carry arms would take time, but lets start, lets get more trained, the armed officers will be wearing body cams, so they will know they are being filmed and will not have free reign to " pop a cap "
    Out of interest, if every police officer carried a gun, do you think that would make criminals more or less likely to carry them too? If you think it's more likely, how do you suppose that improves public safety?

  25. #125

    Re: Arm our officers

    Originally Posted by blue matt
    "I fully understand that training them all to carry arms would take time, but lets start, lets get more trained, the armed officers will be wearing body cams, so they will know they are being filmed and will not have free reign to " pop a cap ""

    What you mean like American law enforcement officers who have been regularly filmed shooting people even they though know they are being filmed ?
    Doesn"t seem to have stopped them now does it ?

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