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Thread: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

  1. #1

    Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.


  2. #2

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    I agree the Serbia game looks lost. We need Austria to hold or even best Ireland in Dub!in. That would very much bring Austria back into contention. That would make our game against them in Cardiff that much harder.However its preferable to an Ireland win.
    What really disappoints is that Ireland were without six players that started their last match in Austria. We were at full strength. A massive opportunity has been lost.

    We played like Reading last night. At one point we had a free kick on the half way line. My immediate reaction was to see the ball pumped into the box to test our their average centre backs. Instead we did a 'Reading' and passed the ball backwards with the eventually going all the way back to Hennessey whose clearance just went beyond the halfway line and was won by an Irish player. What a waste!

    One final point. Ireland are ordinary. They offered almost nothing for seventy minutes playing with ten men behind the ball. It will be incredibly frustrating to see them finish in the top two with us lagging behind. We have blown a major opportunity.

  3. #3

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    We need to think about dropping Taylor (he'll be suspended for a while anyway). With teams more willing to sit back against us, he was on the end of a couple of decent chances and fluffed them. We should either let Ben Davies, a much more technically able player though lacking pace, to play LWB or bring in a more attacking minded player, such as Declan John.

  4. #4

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    1. Ben Davies at wing back, shift Gunter to centre half and Richards at right back.

    2. Bring Paul Dummett in at wing back or swap him around with Davies.

    3. Blood Walsh in at centre half and put Davies at wing back.

    4. Drop the system and try something new.

    We have not had a friendly for 9 months and it's now really showing that we have no back up plan to try anything. Especially now that Bale is out.

  5. #5

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Fuchs, drawing further on Leicester's story, gave an interview where he said that there was a desire to show themselves as champions with fancy flicks etc. but until they were heavily criticised before the Liverpool game they were less concerned with the basics that had set themselves up the year before. To an extent I don't think it's just the team who maybe have lacked a little of their intensity, it seems that fans and media were overly enamored with describing ourselves as group winners before a ball had been kicked.

    If we are looking at changes that could have made the difference last night and for the future of this campaign then picking players in form will be bang up there, if we had Tom Lawrence on the pitch I can't imagine it being the 85th minute before we ran at the weakened Irish defence.

    I am still hopeful as we can't possibly have any more of what I'm choosing to describe as bad fortune and that will make the second half of the campaign much more positive. I'm thinking that Bosnia got themselves into the play-offs for the Euros after starting slowly and apart from our game in Serbia then toughest fixtures are at home so nine points from the last three is a possibility, even if it's not the position we want to put ourselves in.

  6. #6

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
    1. Ben Davies at wing back, shift Gunter to centre half and Richards at right back.

    2. Bring Paul Dummett in at wing back or swap him around with Davies.

    3. Blood Walsh in at centre half and put Davies at wing back.

    4. Drop the system and try something new.

    We have not had a friendly for 9 months and it's now really showing that we have no back up plan to try anything. Especially now that Bale is out.
    We need to blood a new option at the base of midfield too. Moving Bale and Allen forward could have made a big difference yesterday but we didn't really have an option to partner/swap for Ledley.

  7. #7

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    The Jacks were pleased to see Taylor leave. Dummett is mystifying, consistent for Newcastle for years yet constantly overlooked by Coleman.


    Collins and Ledley's premiership days are numbered, Volks and Kanu Robson not regulars, new blood is required. Woodburn and Lawrence have to play.

  8. #8

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKB View Post
    The Jacks were pleased to see Taylor leave. Dummett is mystifying, consistent for Newcastle for years yet constantly overlooked by Coleman.


    Collins and Ledley's premiership days are numbered, Volks and Kanu Robson not regulars, new blood is required. Woodburn and Lawrence have to play.
    I read that Dummett had a knock for this game otherwise I think, for the first time, it would have been harsh not to have him firmly in Coleman's mind for starting position.

    With Vokes and Kanu making regular contributions to their premier league sides, we are probably our strongest in the front-line for a while.

  9. #9

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    I read that Dummett had a knock for this game otherwise I think, for the first time, it would have been harsh not to have him firmly in Coleman's mind for starting position.

    With Vokes and Kanu making regular contributions to their premier league sides, we are probably our strongest in the front-line for a while.
    Whatever the case it means we are crying out for a friendly in June but as usual don't have anything until after the campaign. Even if it's a game against a crap opponent, at least we can try out something a bit different.

    Coleman gets a max 10 days with the players if we have a double header, that's not good enough to try out anything new in training. We have a whole week before the Serbia game to organise a friendly of some sort, Ireland have actually organised 2 against Mexico and Uruguay.

  10. #10

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    I read that Dummett had a knock for this game otherwise I think, for the first time, it would have been harsh not to have him firmly in Coleman's mind for starting position.


    With Vokes and Kanu making regular contributions to their premier league sides, we are probably our strongest in the front-line for a while.
    Dummett played the full ninety last weekend .

  11. #11
    Blue in the Face
    Guest

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
    1. Ben Davies at wing back, shift Gunter to centre half and Richards at right back.

    2. Bring Paul Dummett in at wing back or swap him around with Davies.

    3. Blood Walsh in at centre half and put Davies at wing back.

    4. Drop the system and try something new.

    We have not had a friendly for 9 months and it's now really showing that we have no back up plan to try anything. Especially now that Bale is out.
    Good post Z.

    Just need to say that we should be careful of a witch hunt for Taylor because of yesterday. He's put in some stellar performances for Wales in the past.

    1. Good shout to bet Ben Davies at LWB. I'd like to see Gunter at CB too. Think Jazz would offer a lot more going forward and Jazz is starting to show some terrific form for Cardiff too which should be rewarded, if he can keep it up for a sustained period. Don't like Jazz on the left though.

    2. Dummett definitely has the quality but I'm resigning myself to the thought that he isn't committed to Wales at all. We might need to move on with him now, if he is half-hearted then that attitude could be cancerous to us and send us into the past.

    3. Walsh is definately one to keep an eye on. Quite comparable to Dummett actually, but I think Walsh looks more of a centre back, like you say, rather than a left back (which he started out as for Crawley). Looked great just before he signed for MK Dons. Good that he's got loads of games this season, but needs to be in the Championship next season if he is to establish himself for Wales any time soon.

    4. New system. We do need something else in the locker. I think the time when another system dominates will be when the young attacking players we have in our ranks are too good and ready to leave out. One good thing that has come out of this last camp is that Cookie and Osian will have had a really good look at Woodburn and Wilson. I can see us playing Bale as a false 9 if we can stretch the opposition with pace and quality on the flanks - something that we've not had on both sides of the pitch since Giggs and Simon Davies.

    Yes, we need a friendly. And we need to blood some youngsters. Not that this will cap-tie them, but we need to experiment.

    World Cup qualifiers far from over though! It might just be the test the team needs to go to Serbia without Bale.

  12. #12

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    Good post Z.

    Just need to say that we should be careful of a witch hunt for Taylor because of yesterday. He's put in some stellar performances for Wales in the past.

    1. Good shout to bet Ben Davies at LWB. I'd like to see Gunter at CB too. Think Jazz would offer a lot more going forward and Jazz is starting to show some terrific form for Cardiff too which should be rewarded, if he can keep it up for a sustained period. Don't like Jazz on the left though.

    2. Dummett definitely has the quality but I'm resigning myself to the thought that he isn't committed to Wales at all. We might need to move on with him now, if he is half-hearted then that attitude could be cancerous to us and send us into the past.

    3. Walsh is definately one to keep an eye on. Quite comparable to Dummett actually, but I think Walsh looks more of a centre back, like you say, rather than a left back (which he started out as for Crawley). Looked great just before he signed for MK Dons. Good that he's got loads of games this season, but needs to be in the Championship next season if he is to establish himself for Wales any time soon.

    4. New system. We do need something else in the locker. I think the time when another system dominates will be when the young attacking players we have in our ranks are too good and ready to leave out. One good thing that has come out of this last camp is that Cookie and Osian will have had a really good look at Woodburn and Wilson. I can see us playing Bale as a false 9 if we can stretch the opposition with pace and quality on the flanks - something that we've not had on both sides of the pitch since Giggs and Simon Davies.

    Yes, we need a friendly. And we need to blood some youngsters. Not that this will cap-tie them, but we need to experiment.

    World Cup qualifiers far from over though! It might just be the test the team needs to go to Serbia without Bale.
    I'm not against Taylor like some stuff I've read on Twitter, calling him to never play for Wales again is a bit OTT. But yesterday he wasn't good anyway, he didn't really have to do anything defensively so I will judge him on his attacking performance which was rubbish. Two great chances in front of goal and fluffed them both. I'd like to think Davies can do much better going forward.

    Besides we need to try something new anyway regarding Taylor because he will be banned for a minimum of 3 games, potentially 5 ruling him out of the remaining campaign games.

    Gunter's crossing was pretty poor yesterday, if Jazz maintains his City performances until the end of the season, there is no reason why he can't start the game in Belgrade. I also thought Ledley was poor, if it wasn't for Joe Allen carrying Ramsey and Ledley in the middle of the park we would have been hopeless. Lack of game time at Palace showed, clear that Allardyce doesn't fancy him so will probably move on sharpish come June.
    I think Huws might be better suited in Belgrade because his passing is way more accurate than Ledley's, though he's not better at winning the ball, Huws' ball retention will suit our game more. I lost count at how many times Ledley lost it in the middle when there
    was hardly any pressure on. With the absence of Bale in June, Lawrence surely has to start. I'd like to see us play this if we keep the wing backs:

    Hennessey

    Gunter Williams Chester

    Richards Allen Huws Davies

    Ramsey

    Lawrence Vokes

  13. #13

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Fuchs, drawing further on Leicester's story, gave an interview where he said that there was a desire to show themselves as champions with fancy flicks etc. but until they were heavily criticised before the Liverpool game they were less concerned with the basics that had set themselves up the year before. To an extent I don't think it's just the team who maybe have lacked a little of their intensity, it seems that fans and media were overly enamored with describing ourselves as group winners before a ball had been kicked.

    If we are looking at changes that could have made the difference last night and for the future of this campaign then picking players in form will be bang up there, if we had Tom Lawrence on the pitch I can't imagine it being the 85th minute before we ran at the weakened Irish defence.

    I am still hopeful as we can't possibly have any more of what I'm choosing to describe as bad fortune and that will make the second half of the campaign much more positive. I'm thinking that Bosnia got themselves into the play-offs for the Euros after starting slowly and apart from our game in Serbia then toughest fixtures are at home so nine points from the last three is a possibility, even if it's not the position we want to put ourselves in.
    Bosnia didn't make the play offs mate

  14. #14

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Bosnia didn't make the play offs mate
    They did, Ireland beat them I think

  15. #15

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Fuchs, drawing further on Leicester's story, gave an interview where he said that there was a desire to show themselves as champions with fancy flicks etc. but until they were heavily criticised before the Liverpool game they were less concerned with the basics that had set themselves up the year before. To an extent I don't think it's just the team who maybe have lacked a little of their intensity, it seems that fans and media were overly enamored with describing ourselves as group winners before a ball had been kicked.

    If we are looking at changes that could have made the difference last night and for the future of this campaign then picking players in form will be bang up there, if we had Tom Lawrence on the pitch I can't imagine it being the 85th minute before we ran at the weakened Irish defence.

    I am still hopeful as we can't possibly have any more of what I'm choosing to describe as bad fortune and that will make the second half of the campaign much more positive. I'm thinking that Bosnia got themselves into the play-offs for the Euros after starting slowly and apart from our game in Serbia then toughest fixtures are at home so nine points from the last three is a possibility, even if it's not the position we want to put ourselves in.
    Sorry Surge you were right and I was wrong re Bosnia

  16. #16

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Jazz maybe the best crosser of our full-backs, Gunter has the best stamina and perhaps best understanding of the role, Davies the best defender and best technically....

    What about Morgan Fox? I haven't seen him play but a full-back who is likely to make the play-offs with Wednesday may be a better option than the out of form Taylor.

    I hate to say it but perhaps England showed us what the 3-4-2-1 should ideally be set up like against Germany. With Bertrand and Walker on the flanks but otherwise very similar to ourselves (imitation being flattering?) With a midfield base mix of defence and technical ability, one technical and one exciting 10's and a striker to cause havoc.

    I think we need to start planning for the eventual benching of ledley, Ashley Williams and Neil Taylor as the three biggest names of recent times with seemingly shortest journey ahead.

  17. #17

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Jazz maybe the best crosser of our full-backs, Gunter has the best stamina and perhaps best understanding of the role, Davies the best defender and best technically....

    What about Morgan Fox? I haven't seen him play but a full-back who is likely to make the play-offs with Wednesday may be a better option than the out of form Taylor.

    I hate to say it but perhaps England showed us what the 3-4-2-1 should ideally be set up like against Germany. With Bertrand and Walker on the flanks but otherwise very similar to ourselves (imitation being flattering?) With a midfield base mix of defence and technical ability, one technical and one exciting 10's and a striker to cause havoc.

    I think we need to start planning for the eventual benching of ledley, Ashley Williams and Neil Taylor as the three biggest names of recent times with seemingly shortest journey ahead.
    Yes, Williams has already said he is retiring after the 2018 World Cup campaign, Collins will surely follow suit. They will be 34 and 35 respectively by the time 2020 Euro qualifying starts.

    Ledley, Edwards, Church, Cotterill, King, MacDonald, Taylor will all probably have one more in them after this one is over.

  18. #18

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
    Yes, Williams has already said he is retiring after the 2018 World Cup campaign, Collins will surely follow suit. They will be 34 and 35 respectively by the time 2020 Euro qualifying starts.

    Ledley, Edwards, Church, Cotterill, King, MacDonald, Taylor will all probably have one more in them after this one is over.
    There is a player in the Southampton youth side who can play for England and Wales and just might fit the bill of filling one of the CB positions. As far as I'm aware he's not had contact from either nation which seems to be a oversight particularly on our part.

    I don't suppose there is a way of suggesting players to the FAW

  19. #19

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    It may be worth contacting Rob Page as it's his job to cover the under 21s and below.

  20. #20
    Blue in the Face
    Guest

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    There is a player in the Southampton youth side who can play for England and Wales and just might fit the bill of filling one of the CB positions. As far as I'm aware he's not had contact from either nation which seems to be a oversight particularly on our part.

    I don't suppose there is a way of suggesting players to the FAW
    Do it Surgio. The last player we got from Southampton was OK (not Isgrove)

    Think we have some promising young CBs coming through. Would be wonderful if we could have strength in depth at centre half for once

  21. #21

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Pretty decent appraisal.
    The post Euro hype & expectancy and the effect it had on the players (and fans) have taken their toll on the campaign thus far.
    The parallels with Leicester are certainly there and you wonder whether France was "our chance" (Denmark's win all them years ago and nowhere since).

    Cant see anything but a loss in Serbia. We are in the familiar position of having one or 2 world class players mixed with very average ones, and our main one is missing.

  22. #22

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    I'm surprised with a lot of talk about centre backs on here that Joel Lynch of QPR hasn't been mentioned. He's a championship regular and he's previously played for Wales.

  23. #23

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyncoed Slumdog View Post
    I'm surprised with a lot of talk about centre backs on here that Joel Lynch of QPR hasn't been mentioned. He's a championship regular and he's previously played for Wales.
    Yes only trouble is his age. I'm sure the Wales setup with rather younger players come in.

  24. #24

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKB View Post
    The Jacks were pleased to see Taylor leave. Dummett is mystifying, consistent for Newcastle for years yet constantly overlooked by Coleman.


    Collins and Ledley's premiership days are numbered, Volks and Kanu Robson not regulars, new blood is required. Woodburn and Lawrence have to play.
    It is beyond belief that Coleman did not get Woodburn on that pitch for the last 2 minutes, instead going with Edwards. That lad might just get a sneaky call from an England manager who seems keen to give young players a go.
    Wales looked worse than pathetic with Bale sorely misused, trotting around trying to make things happen while Ramsey just ambled around feeling sorry for himself.
    I don't care about Russia 2018 but I do care about the next Euros and Coleman seems terrified to give youth a go. It will not see him sought after when he leaves us.

  25. #25

    Re: Yet another draw as qualification fades further into the distance for battle weary Wales.

    Yes we need to get Woodburn tied to Wales as soon as possible. We were simply too timid on Friday night. Luck was on our side with so many first choice Irish players missing. We failed to make the most of it.
    In truth we have not played well enough

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