+ Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 62

Thread: Happy Brexit Day

  1. #26
    International Vimana.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    way out west
    Posts
    12,196

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    You're articulating what Welsh Bremainers keep saying. That is they are afraid the crumbs thrown to Wales from the Westminster table will be smaller than from the EU one, hence my begging bowl remarks. I wish they'd get up off their knees; it's embarrassing.
    You appear to be belittling people for expressing concerns?
    What wisdom and comfort have you got in mind for the wretched souls 'on their knees', as their concern seems to be a similar concern held by some prominent people who have political experience and insight.
    Now, they may well be wrong of course - as politicians often are - but why are they wrong?

    Please explain - it need not be in fine detail (how could it be)! - why is it absolutely fine not to have any concerns for the future of the economy of Wales in the years following Brexit.
    (Genuinely interested. Not being confrontational).
    Last edited by Vimana.; 30-03-17 at 12:28.

  2. #27

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    You're articulating what Welsh Bremainers keep saying. That is they are afraid the crumbs thrown to Wales from the Westminster table will be smaller than from the EU one, hence my begging bowl remarks. I wish they'd get up off their knees; it's embarrassing.
    It's not a case of people being on their knees with the begging bowl out. Wales used to have a vibrant economy based on heavy industry, which was effectively decimated by the (Tory) central government. So today, outside of Cardiff, Wales is pretty much a "less-developed" area and therefore entitled to European funding. Take that away, and we're back to being "looked after" by the same government that effectively made us a less-developed region in the first place. Personally I can't see that ending well, but hey, I'm sure UKIP and the Welsh people who voted to leave have already considered that eventuality and have a plan. Well don't they?

    I'm about ten years away from retirement and live in leafy north Cardiff, so personally won't be unduly affected, but I'm sure that the poor and unemployed who live in the poorest parts of Wales will heed your advice and get off their nears and go marching to one of the numerous pits/steelworks/factories who will be falling all over themselves to give them work.

  3. #28

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    It's not a case of people being on their knees with the begging bowl out. Wales used to have a vibrant economy based on heavy industry, which was effectively decimated by the (Tory) central government. So today, outside of Cardiff, Wales is pretty much a "less-developed" area and therefore entitled to European funding. Take that away, and we're back to being "looked after" by the same government that effectively made us a less-developed region in the first place. Personally I can't see that ending well, but hey, I'm sure UKIP and the Welsh people who voted to leave have already considered that eventuality and have a plan. Well don't they?

    I'm about ten years away from retirement and live in leafy north Cardiff, so personally won't be unduly affected, but I'm sure that the poor and unemployed who live in the poorest parts of Wales will heed your advice and get off their nears and go marching to one of the numerous pits/steelworks/factories who will be falling all over themselves to give them work.
    Much fair comment. You've stolen some of my thunder though because it's decades since those jobs disappeared and longer still since Tebbit abruptly spoke the truth when he urged people to get on their bikes. Far too many chose not to take his advice by not becoming mobile to where the jobs were/are to instead stay put hoping/expecting the opportunities to come to them. We must be near an affordable limit for public sector jobs at over 25% of those in employment.

  4. #29

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimana. View Post
    You appear to be belittling people for expressing concerns?
    What wisdom and comfort have you got in mind for the wretched souls 'on their knees', as their concern seems to be a similar concern held by some prominent people who have political experience and insight.
    Now, they may well be wrong of course - as politicians often are - but why are they wrong?

    Please explain - it need not be in fine detail (how could it be)! - why is it absolutely fine not to have any concerns for the future of the economy of Wales in the years following Brexit.
    (Genuinely interested. Not being confrontational).
    I have no problem with people expressing concerns. But for some it's constant negativity.

  5. #30

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    What should have happened is that we go back to semi restricted movement. You only go if you have a job or want to retire there (with private medical insurance). I'd like te UK to be able to advertise for anyone in the world to work here - as long as their prospective employer went guarantor for them.
    and that is the issue many had, with us staying in the EU it was not possible

    most accept we need specialist / in demand skills, what we do not need is the unskilled

  6. #31

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Much fair comment. You've stolen some of my thunder though because it's decades since those jobs disappeared and longer still since Tebbit abruptly spoke the truth when he urged people to get on their bikes. Far too many chose not to take his advice by not becoming mobile to where the jobs were/are to instead stay put hoping/expecting the opportunities to come to them. We must be near an affordable limit for public sector jobs at over 25% of those in employment.
    We are leaving the EU because we don't like it when people do that.

  7. #32

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shitpeas View Post
    Amongst other things it has gone on transport infrastructure (A55, A40, one section of the A465 alone received £85m)

    Town Centre regeneration projects in places like Ebbw Vale, Aberdare and Pontypridd.

    Wales Coastal Path

    Swansea University's new campus

    Cardiff University science development and research

    Job creation projects

    Welsh Government Apprenticeships programme

    Agricultural fund for rural development

    Fisheries fund

    Renewable energy funding

    Cardiff Capital region deal


    Let's be honest, Wales voting to leave the EU has to rank amongst the most stupid decisions in the history of our country.






    Funding for small business competitiveness.
    All that and it still didn't really benefit the region. Could that be why they voted a higher percentage out. Summarised as gentrification. Without actually helping people.

    And a question no one can answer. How much of that would be funded by the UK or WAG if the EU didn't. Certainly some would have, some less, and maybe different projects may have received funding.

    It doesnt provide for people like it needed to.

  8. #33

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Dragon View Post
    All that and it still didn't really benefit the region. Could that be why they voted a higher percentage out. Summarised as gentrification. Without actually helping people.

    And a question no one can answer. How much of that would be funded by the UK or WAG if the EU didn't. Certainly some would have, some less, and maybe different projects may have received funding.

    It doesnt provide for people like it needed to.
    Other than improvements to the town centres, I don't think you could describe any of those as gentrification.

    One of the many great things about the EU in my opinion is that the wealthier countries are helping to improve the less well off regions, providing assistance for infrastructure improvements and job creation schemes that they may otherwise not get. Once we've left I feel we are going to have to fight tooth and nail for every penny we can get from Westminster.

  9. #34

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shitpeas View Post
    Other than improvements to the town centres, I don't think you could describe any of those as gentrification.

    One of the many great things about the EU in my opinion is that the wealthier countries are helping to improve the less well off regions, providing assistance for infrastructure improvements and job creation schemes that they may otherwise not get. Once we've left I feel we are going to have to fight tooth and nail for every penny we can get from Westminster.
    Absolutely. The poorest regions of Wales will be a very low priority for this right wing Tory Government.

  10. #35

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    I have no problem with people expressing concerns. But for some it's constant negativity.
    So what exactly are the positives?

  11. #36

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    So what exactly are the positives?
    We apparently regain our sovereignty albeit only when it suits the Brexiteers. We regain control of our borders although immigration is not going to come down any time soon apparently. The pound will continue to fall which is great news for our exporters. We just need to forget imports becoming more expensive and inflation rising well above pay increases.

    Its a win win situation.

  12. #37

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    The positives? Britain managed its affairs perfectly well for many centuries without outsiders creating thousands of rules to abide by, and it can again. Immigration levels may not decline, but we can then point the finger at British politicians who can be held to account via the ballot box. The pound's currently low by design. A 0.25% base rate whilst CPI, the lowest inflation gauge, is at 2.3% equals outright manipulation. It's also called currency wars or the race to the bottom because all the major currencies are heading to their intrinsic value which is precisely nothing... the pound and US Dollar, for example, have lost 96% of their purchasing power in the past 100 years.

  13. #38

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    So amongst all that rhetoric, the best you can come up with is "outsiders not writing our rules"? Meanwhile the government is currently hard at work writing those very same rules into our statute books????

  14. #39

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Britain will once again be able to control its own destiny. That was at the crux of the referendum. Didn't you notice?

  15. #40

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by PerryJason View Post
    When we eventually detach ourselves from the English, I suppose it will be called 'Wexit' ??
    Such a detachment would leave England wealthier.

  16. #41

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Britain will once again be able to control its own destiny. That was at the crux of the referendum. Didn't you notice?
    Broadly speaking, we always did. The quid pro quo for the benefits we received were the adoption of EU regulations.

    We used to rule half the world. Things change.

    Whilst I accept that we will no longer have to worry about the shape of our bananas or the suction power of our vacuum cleaners again, any future trade deal will inevitably come with strings attached that won't be all that dissimilar to those already imposed on us by Europe.

    I'm still looking for some tangible benefits of leaving the EU, but at the moment all I'm getting is the ideology of "controlling our own destiny". Is that all there is? Is that why we've rolled the dice with the stake being the futures of our children and the poorest in society?

  17. #42

  18. #43

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Such a detachment would leave England wealthier.
    Let's get on with it then!

    But in all seriousness, the best thing that'll come from brexit is the increasing debate about welsh independence.

  19. #44

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Wales got EU grants as we were deemed to be impoverished etc. We dont get that money every year. There are now worse areas that will get that money.

    A classic example is Ebbw Vale - they voted leave , yet said Nick Clegg they have had all that EU money. That money built a new road (the UK can build roads to), it built a college (we can build colleges as well) - and it even built a metal dragon on the high street (waste of money - but there you go).

    The point being , Ebbw Vale needs jobs - which neither the EU or the UK Govt can provide.

    Re the vote - if it was replayed - I dont know either. Last time I neither wanted to remain or leave. Wanted to leave as the direction the EU is going in - is not what I want - further and deeper integration, no control on borders, cheap labour killing wages here etc etc etc.

    At the same time the hassle of leaving is going to be a pain in the @rse. But it does definitely provide opportunities. The WTO tarif is akin to a 5% drop in sterling - which we seem to have had already (said radio4 today - not me).

    I also quite like the fact that we can set our own vat, corp tax and trade with whoever we want. As it stands if you are in the EU then 100% of UK companies need to comply with EU regs - whether you export to EU or not. COme out and only companies that export need to comply. Same as any company - a company that exports to Australia - needs to comply with their regs etc.

    Im still 50/50 with the whole thing, it is however too late to change now - and even if we did decide to reverse - the EU would make life very difficult.

    What should have happened is that we go back to semi restricted movement. You only go if you have a job or want to retire there (with private medical insurance). I'd like te UK to be able to advertise for anyone in the world to work here - as long as their prospective employer went guarantor for them.
    If I was poor and living in Ebbw Vale, and Cameron, Clegg at al. came over and said that I should vote remain 'cos economics init' I'd flick the Vs too. The logic in the leave vote in deprived areas was clear - We aren't happy, we want change. Whether any actual change will happen, I'm sceptical, but the logic is clear.

  20. #45

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy31 View Post
    Let's get on with it then!

    But in all seriousness, the best thing that'll come from brexit is the increasing debate about welsh independence.
    When has Wales actually voted for independence though? And didn't Wales vote for Brexit?

  21. #46

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    When has Wales actually voted for independence though? And didn't Wales vote for Brexit?
    We havent yet. And yes. struggling to see the link

  22. #47

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    The positives? Britain managed its affairs perfectly well for many centuries without outsiders creating thousands of rules to abide by, and it can again. Immigration levels may not decline, but we can then point the finger at British politicians who can be held to account via the ballot box. The pound's currently low by design. A 0.25% base rate whilst CPI, the lowest inflation gauge, is at 2.3% equals outright manipulation. It's also called currency wars or the race to the bottom because all the major currencies are heading to their intrinsic value which is precisely nothing... the pound and US Dollar, for example, have lost 96% of their purchasing power in the past 100 years.
    So, the referendum gave us the chance to maybe eventually identify who is to "blame" for the record immigration figures - always said it was a referendum on immigration, as opposed to EU membership, for an awful lot of people.

  23. #48
    International jon1959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheffield - out of Roath
    Posts
    15,892

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy31 View Post
    If I was poor and living in Ebbw Vale, and Cameron, Clegg at al. came over and said that I should vote remain 'cos economics init' I'd flick the Vs too. The logic in the leave vote in deprived areas was clear - We aren't happy, we want change. Whether any actual change will happen, I'm sceptical, but the logic is clear.
    That sounds a lot more like emotion than logic.

    Which is probably the basis on which 90% of us voted - on both sides of the argument.

    In my view Leave were better than Remain on pitching their 'message' in emotional terms.

    Remain (through Osbourne) tried to lead on confused pseudo facts. Leave led with appeals to 'us' not ' them'.

  24. #49

  25. #50

    Re: Happy Brexit Day

    Quote Originally Posted by PerryJason View Post
    All these complete uneducated plebs who voted for brexit in the valleys will be so sorry that they didn't look at all of the facts. Fekin labour voting idiots.
    Bit harsh lol but l guess l fit into some of those categories,uneducated and a fekin labour voter living in the valleys but l did vote to remain ,main reason for me was the perceived impact it would have on future generations and how it might affect my children and grand children,and the erosion of workers rights were all important to me ,now l did have to balance this out against the promised huge amounts that would be made available to the NHS that leaving would bring and with me and the wife getting older this of course would be beneficial.That aside my questions to whoever ,by voting for brexit do you think consumer goods i.e. Food ,electrical goods ,and general high st items will rise to levels that they were when l first got married over 40 years ago when buying the fridge freezer tv and the like were major purchases and in general do you believe standards of living will drop?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •