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Thread: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

  1. #1

    The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Is it finally time for Wales to exert its independence and drag itself from the yoke of Westminster and the monarchy?

    https://freewales.org/independent-wa...osperous-wales

    This presents what appears to be one viable route to achieving that aim.

    Is it even possible to convince the people of Wales that independence is in their own best interest?


  2. #2

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Is it finally time for Wales to exert its independence and drag itself from the yoke of Westminster and the monarchy?

    https://freewales.org/independent-wa...osperous-wales

    This presents what appears to be one viable route to achieving that aim.

    Is it even possible to convince the people of Wales that independence is in their own best interest?

    Unfortunately, I think not.

  3. #3
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    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    When the strapline - fe godwn ni eto - is used you have to think of the mindset of the website owner. 'We will rise again' was used previously by the FWA - a terrorist organisation.

  4. #4

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    I have no economic understanding whatsoever, but I wouldn't be willing to risk the complete ruin that may come our way as we really are a quite poor, small country.

    Maybe we could do an ireland and become a dressed up tax haven. But that ship has sailed.

    I don't think life in the valleys is particularly good. It could be a lot worse. My area is improving by the day.

  5. #5

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    The article at the Colonel's link says that 97% of the money supply is debt. Debt created by private banks via loans. They loan money at interest which they don't have. An unsuspecting public believe they're loaned someone else's money that their bank hold on deposit, they don't. The scam is known as Fractional Reserve Lending. One of the best and most succinct expose on the subject at 60 minutes duration is 97% Owned - Positive Money Cut - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3mfkD6Ky5o

    We'll never, ever, see a documentary such as that on terrestrial TV because the people who run the show don't want us to know what's behind the curtain. Oxfam published a report in January that claimed eight people have the equivalent wealth of the poorest 50% of people alive today. http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre...half-the-world

  6. #6
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    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    The article at the Colonel's link says that 97% of the money supply is debt. Debt created by private banks via loans. They loan money at interest which they don't have. An unsuspecting public believe they're loaned someone else's money that their bank hold on deposit, they don't. The scam is known as Fractional Reserve Lending. One of the best and most succinct expose on the subject at 60 minutes duration is 97% Owned - Positive Money Cut - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3mfkD6Ky5o

    We'll never, ever, see a documentary such as that on terrestrial TV because the people who run the show don't want us to know what's behind the curtain. Oxfam published a report in January that claimed eight people have the equivalent wealth of the poorest 50% of people alive today. http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre...half-the-world
    Bollocks

  7. #7
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    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    I got to this bit, laughed and stopped reading.

    "Like county councils, the Welsh government is prohibited from stemming this outflow by EU and UK laws, such as the misnamed ‘best-value’ procurement regulations. They require contracts to be awarded to foreign firms that can under-bid local companies due to their scale and ability to leverage debt."

    Complete and utter bollocks, and if they can get that wrong, or deliberately attempt to mislead the reader, then the rest of the article is likely to be similarly flawed or deliberately misleading. Either way, it cannot be taken seriously.

  8. #8

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    I got to this bit, laughed and stopped reading.

    "Like county councils, the Welsh government is prohibited from stemming this outflow by EU and UK laws, such as the misnamed ‘best-value’ procurement regulations. They require contracts to be awarded to foreign firms that can under-bid local companies due to their scale and ability to leverage debt."

    Complete and utter bollocks, and if they can get that wrong, or deliberately attempt to mislead the reader, then the rest of the article is likely to be similarly flawed or deliberately misleading. Either way, it cannot be taken seriously.
    Was interested in what you think about other countries subsidizing key companies (e.g. Arriva Trains) to allow them to 'compete' in our markets where we don't have anything so focused here?

  9. #9

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    It's weird that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought forward, how many Welsh people will become impossibly contrary, nitpicking whatever detail they can find to justify to themselves why they should dismiss wholesale the notion of independence.

    This nation once fought fierce and proud against its invaders but now, after hundreds of years of being treated like a poor relative in a backwater, we've become so accustomed to subjugation that the prospect of going it alone is too much to even contemplate, like a nationwide collective Stockholm Syndrome.

    People are quick to say "Wales could NEVER prosper on its own", as if it's ever prospered under England or ever had the chance to try. We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed.

    Now even our own people have been conditioned to believe they are not worthy of controlling their own destiny. Wales could be doing so much better for itself, but we'll never find that out as long as everyone is too scared to poke their heads above the parapet.

    If Britain can survive without Europe, then Wales can survive without Britain.

  10. #10

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    It's weird that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought forward, how many Welsh people will become impossibly contrary, nitpicking whatever detail they can find to justify to themselves why they should dismiss wholesale the notion of independence.

    This nation once fought fierce and proud against its invaders but now, after hundreds of years of being treated like a poor relative in a backwater, we've become so accustomed to subjugation that the prospect of going it alone is too much to even contemplate, like a nationwide collective Stockholm Syndrome.

    People are quick to say "Wales could NEVER prosper on its own", as if it's ever prospered under England or ever had the chance to try. We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed.

    Now even our own people have been conditioned to believe they are not worthy of controlling their own destiny. Wales could be doing so much better for itself, but we'll never find that out as long as everyone is too scared to poke their heads above the parapet.

    If Britain can survive without Europe, then Wales can survive without Britain.
    Interesting argument. Can Britain survive without Europe? Yes, but as well as it has so far? Nope. Not a chance (in my view anyway).

    Unfortunately, having a dig at people for not believing the mantra you provide does nothing to help your cause.

  11. #11

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Interesting argument. Can Britain survive without Europe? Yes, but as well as it has so far? Nope. Not a chance (in my view anyway).

    Unfortunately, having a dig at people for not believing the mantra you provide does nothing to help your cause.
    Another indication that the people of Wales are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome is that they take it as a "dig" when you point it out.

  12. #12

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Another indication that the people of Wales are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome is that they take it as a "dig" when you point it out.
    What would you call it?

  13. #13

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed.
    Care to elaborate?

  14. #14

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    What would you call it?
    The truth.

    It always seems to me that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought up, people are quick to look for reasons why it wouldn't work rather than look to why it would.

  15. #15

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    The truth.

    It always seems to me that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought up, people are quick to look for reasons why it wouldn't work rather than look to why it would.
    Yes, but having a go at people for having that opinion is not going to be successful in changing their minds.

  16. #16

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Care to elaborate?
    I have to say Eric, your comments so far in this thread go some way to verifying the first paragraph of my post in which I refer to nitpicking.

  17. #17

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Yes, but having a go at people for having that opinion is not going to be successful in changing their minds.
    Again, you see it as a "dig" or "having a go", sometimes people need to hear something they might not necessarily like to hear.

    Since we're nitpicking, which part specifically do you see as "having a go"?

  18. #18

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    I have to say Eric, your comments so far in this thread go some way to verifying the first paragraph of my post in which I refer to nitpicking.
    It's a shame you couldn't answer my simple question.

  19. #19

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    It's a shame you couldn't answer my simple question.
    Well I could, Eric, I just wonder if I'd be wasting my time and you'd find something else to nitpick.

  20. #20

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Yes, but having a go at people for having that opinion is not going to be successful in changing their minds.
    which is a issue most nationalists have, they either try and bully the opinion over or they ridicule the others

    neither tend to work that well and thus the nationalist always struggle

  21. #21

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Again, you see it as a "dig" or "having a go", sometimes people need to hear something they might not necessarily like to hear.

    Since we're nitpicking, which part specifically do you see as "having a go"?
    Wales could be doing so much better for itself, but we'll never find that out as long as everyone is too scared to poke their heads above the parapet.

    how many Welsh people will become impossibly contrary, nitpicking

  22. #22

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Well I could, Eric, I just wonder if I'd be wasting my time and you'd find something else to nitpick.
    Go on then. Give me something I couldn't nitpick. Or shut up.

  23. #23

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    which is a issue most nationalists have, they either try and bully the opinion over or they ridicule the others

    neither tend to work that well and thus the nationalist always struggle
    Oh, it's "bullying" now. Jesus Christ.

  24. #24

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Wales could be doing so much better for itself, but we'll never find that out as long as everyone is too scared to poke their heads above the parapet.

    how many Welsh people will become impossibly contrary, nitpicking
    Which part is untrue?

  25. #25

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    which is a issue most nationalists have, they either try and bully the opinion over or they ridicule the others

    neither tend to work that well and thus the nationalist always struggle
    Not just nationalists. It's becoming politics in general.

  26. #26

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Go on then. Give me something I couldn't nitpick. Or shut up.
    Eric, there's nothing you couldn't nitpick.

  27. #27

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Which part is untrue?
    So, to try and get people on side you describe them as scared and contrary. Nice way to go.

  28. #28

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    So, to try and get people on side you describe them as scared and contrary. Nice way to go.
    Again, which part is untrue? Like I said, sometimes people need to hear something they might not necessarily like to hear.

  29. #29

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Not just nationalists. It's becoming politics in general.
    very true, though i have always thought that nationalists have always struggled with it

  30. #30

    Re: The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Eric, there's nothing you couldn't nitpick.
    Let's get back to the question. That's the most important thing. "We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed." I've asked for elaboration.

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