The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

Is it finally time for Wales to exert its independence and drag itself from the yoke of Westminster and the monarchy?

https://freewales.org/independent-wa...osperous-wales

This presents what appears to be one viable route to achieving that aim.

Is it even possible to convince the people of Wales that independence is in their own best interest?

[NYCBlue]

Is it finally time for Wales to exert its independence and drag itself from the yoke of Westminster and the monarchy?

https://freewales.org/independent-wa...osperous-wales

This presents what appears to be one viable route to achieving that aim.

Is it even possible to convince the people of Wales that independence is in their own best interest?

Unfortunately, I think not.

[Feedback]

When the strapline - fe godwn ni eto - is used you have to think of the mindset of the website owner. 'We will rise again' was used previously by the FWA - a terrorist organisation.

[LordKenwyne]

I have no economic understanding whatsoever, but I wouldn't be willing to risk the complete ruin that may come our way as we really are a quite poor, small country.

Maybe we could do an ireland and become a dressed up tax haven. But that ship has sailed.

I don't think life in the valleys is particularly good. It could be a lot worse. My area is improving by the day.

[Organ Morgan.]

The article at the Colonel's link says that 97% of the money supply is debt. Debt created by private banks via loans. They loan money at interest which they don't have. An unsuspecting public believe they're loaned someone else's money that their bank hold on deposit, they don't. The scam is known as Fractional Reserve Lending. One of the best and most succinct expose on the subject at 60 minutes duration is 97% Owned - Positive Money Cut - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3mfkD6Ky5o

We'll never, ever, see a documentary such as that on terrestrial TV because the people who run the show don't want us to know what's behind the curtain. Oxfam published a report in January that claimed eight people have the equivalent wealth of the poorest 50% of people alive today. http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre...half-the-world

[Feedback]

The article at the Colonel's link says that 97% of the money supply is debt. Debt created by private banks via loans. They loan money at interest which they don't have. An unsuspecting public believe they're loaned someone else's money that their bank hold on deposit, they don't. The scam is known as Fractional Reserve Lending. One of the best and most succinct expose on the subject at 60 minutes duration is 97% Owned - Positive Money Cut - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3mfkD6Ky5o

We'll never, ever, see a documentary such as that on terrestrial TV because the people who run the show don't want us to know what's behind the curtain. Oxfam published a report in January that claimed eight people have the equivalent wealth of the poorest 50% of people alive today. http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre...half-the-world

Bollocks

[TH63]

I got to this bit, laughed and stopped reading.

"Like county councils, the Welsh government is prohibited from stemming this outflow by EU and UK laws, such as the misnamed ‘best-value’ procurement regulations. They require contracts to be awarded to foreign firms that can under-bid local companies due to their scale and ability to leverage debt."

Complete and utter bollocks, and if they can get that wrong, or deliberately attempt to mislead the reader, then the rest of the article is likely to be similarly flawed or deliberately misleading. Either way, it cannot be taken seriously.

[Penarth Blues]

I got to this bit, laughed and stopped reading.

"Like county councils, the Welsh government is prohibited from stemming this outflow by EU and UK laws, such as the misnamed ‘best-value’ procurement regulations. They require contracts to be awarded to foreign firms that can under-bid local companies due to their scale and ability to leverage debt."

Complete and utter bollocks, and if they can get that wrong, or deliberately attempt to mislead the reader, then the rest of the article is likely to be similarly flawed or deliberately misleading. Either way, it cannot be taken seriously.

Was interested in what you think about other countries subsidizing key companies (e.g. Arriva Trains) to allow them to 'compete' in our markets where we don't have anything so focused here?

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

It's weird that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought forward, how many Welsh people will become impossibly contrary, nitpicking whatever detail they can find to justify to themselves why they should dismiss wholesale the notion of independence.

This nation once fought fierce and proud against its invaders but now, after hundreds of years of being treated like a poor relative in a backwater, we've become so accustomed to subjugation that the prospect of going it alone is too much to even contemplate, like a nationwide collective Stockholm Syndrome.

People are quick to say "Wales could NEVER prosper on its own", as if it's ever prospered under England or ever had the chance to try. We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed.

Now even our own people have been conditioned to believe they are not worthy of controlling their own destiny. Wales could be doing so much better for itself, but we'll never find that out as long as everyone is too scared to poke their heads above the parapet.

If Britain can survive without Europe, then Wales can survive without Britain.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

It's weird that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought forward, how many Welsh people will become impossibly contrary, nitpicking whatever detail they can find to justify to themselves why they should dismiss wholesale the notion of independence.

This nation once fought fierce and proud against its invaders but now, after hundreds of years of being treated like a poor relative in a backwater, we've become so accustomed to subjugation that the prospect of going it alone is too much to even contemplate, like a nationwide collective Stockholm Syndrome.

People are quick to say "Wales could NEVER prosper on its own", as if it's ever prospered under England or ever had the chance to try. We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed.

Now even our own people have been conditioned to believe they are not worthy of controlling their own destiny. Wales could be doing so much better for itself, but we'll never find that out as long as everyone is too scared to poke their heads above the parapet.

If Britain can survive without Europe, then Wales can survive without Britain.

Interesting argument. Can Britain survive without Europe? Yes, but as well as it has so far? Nope. Not a chance (in my view anyway).

Unfortunately, having a dig at people for not believing the mantra you provide does nothing to help your cause.

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

Interesting argument. Can Britain survive without Europe? Yes, but as well as it has so far? Nope. Not a chance (in my view anyway).

Unfortunately, having a dig at people for not believing the mantra you provide does nothing to help your cause.

Another indication that the people of Wales are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome is that they take it as a "dig" when you point it out.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Another indication that the people of Wales are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome is that they take it as a "dig" when you point it out.

What would you call it?

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

What would you call it?

The truth.

It always seems to me that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought up, people are quick to look for reasons why it wouldn't work rather than look to why it would.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed.

Care to elaborate?

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

Care to elaborate?

I have to say Eric, your comments so far in this thread go some way to verifying the first paragraph of my post in which I refer to nitpicking.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I have to say Eric, your comments so far in this thread go some way to verifying the first paragraph of my post in which I refer to nitpicking.

It's a shame you couldn't answer my simple question.

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

It's a shame you couldn't answer my simple question.

Well I could, Eric, I just wonder if I'd be wasting my time and you'd find something else to nitpick.

[Penarth Blues]

It's weird that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought forward, how many Welsh people will become impossibly contrary, nitpicking whatever detail they can find to justify to themselves why they should dismiss wholesale the notion of independence.

This nation once fought fierce and proud against its invaders but now, after hundreds of years of being treated like a poor relative in a backwater, we've become so accustomed to subjugation that the prospect of going it alone is too much to even contemplate, like a nationwide collective Stockholm Syndrome.

People are quick to say "Wales could NEVER prosper on its own", as if it's ever prospered under England or ever had the chance to try. We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed.

Now even our own people have been conditioned to believe they are not worthy of controlling their own destiny. Wales could be doing so much better for itself, but we'll never find that out as long as everyone is too scared to poke their heads above the parapet.

If Britain can survive without Europe, then Wales can survive without Britain.

I'm sorry but that is impossibly naïve as a view. Money dictates everything and we have no control over that here at all. Whether that is fair or not it is the truth now as a result of centuries of neglect. The other truth is that we're not on the way to anywhere - we're at the end of the route and no-one needs to come here as everything we can offer is offered cheaper or better somewhere else.

The ONLY things we have to offer are space, water, energy, good food, security, a potentially good quality of life, and the rule of law. These are all powerful things but unfortunately England, and London in particular, are more appealing in offering these to people from outside the UK.

To put this into perspective STUTTGART as a city is spending €20BN turning its train station through 90 degrees to make sure it is on a through TGV route rather than at the end of a line - connections are that important to their economy.

If you didn't already live here why would you come? More importantly, what could we sell you that you can't buy cheaper elsewhere?

I think the lack of self-belief here is simply realism that we've been screwed and there is little hope of a way back as an independent nation. On the contrary, I think there is a rising realisation that the UK can't continue to put all its eggs in the London basket and provided we remain part of the UK I think we will remain included in the move towards offering the quality of life that is missing in London. Many major institutions are moving workers out of London to reduce costs and take advantage of the fact that most new business in the digital domain does not rely on geographic location quite so heavily. In fact, if Scotland leaves, we might even get favourable treatment to try and persuade us to stay.

I think we have hope here, but as a nation of 3M people we'd be swallowed up if we tried to go it alone at the moment in my view. You clearly have a very different view but I'd be interested to know why you think we could compete in the world as an independent country based on facts not hope.

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

I'm sorry but that is impossibly naïve as a view. Money dictates everything and we have no control over that here at all. Whether that is fair or not it is the truth now as a result of centuries of neglect. The other truth is that we're not on the way to anywhere - we're at the end of the route and no-one needs to come here as everything we can offer is offered cheaper or better somewhere else.

The ONLY things we have to offer are space, water, energy, good food, security, a potentially good quality of life, and the rule of law. These are all powerful things but unfortunately England, and London in particular, are more appealing in offering these to people from outside the UK.

To put this into perspective STUTTGART as a city is spending €20BN turning its train station through 90 degrees to make sure it is on a through TGV route rather than at the end of a line - connections are that important to their economy.

If you didn't already live here why would you come? More importantly, what could we sell you that you can't buy cheaper elsewhere?

I think the lack of self-belief here is simply realism that we've been screwed and there is little hope of a way back as an independent nation. On the contrary, I think there is a rising realisation that the UK can't continue to put all its eggs in the London basket and provided we remain part of the UK I think we will remain included in the move towards offering the quality of life that is missing in London. Many major institutions are moving workers out of London to reduce costs and take advantage of the fact that most new business in the digital domain does not rely on geographic location quite so heavily. In fact, if Scotland leaves, we might even get favourable treatment to try and persuade us to stay.

I think we have hope here, but as a nation of 3M people we'd be swallowed up if we tried to go it alone at the moment in my view. You clearly have a very different view but I'd be interested to know why you think we could compete in the world as an independent country based on facts not hope.

Because the other option is to just continue as we are; a sickly nation, an afterthought to those in power, collecting the scraps.

How will we ever know what we can achieve as a nation if we never pull ourselves together and leap from the frying pan?

As I said in the post you replied to, we always look for reasons why it wouldn't work, can't we, just once, look for reasons why it could.

[Penarth Blues]

Because the other option is to just continue as we are; a sickly nation, an afterthought to those in power, collecting the scraps.

How will we ever know what we can achieve as a nation if we never pull ourselves together and leap from the frying pan?

As I said in the post you replied to, we always look for reasons why it wouldn't work, can't we, just once, look for reasons why it could.

I agree with your viewpoint about looking for reasons why it would work - I've pointed out advantages that I think we have, and also why I think we're trumped by England in almost all respects for people looking to come North if we decide to become independent.

I've spent a significant portion of my life working with Europeans and I think we have an amazing country, but we can't cut ourselves off from the rest of the world if we become independent so we have to look at what we can offer than no-one else can.

My best suggestion to becoming self-sustaining is to become a really expensive, high end destination where we limit numbers coming into the country to maintain quality of the experience for those here. Unfortunately that would mean most of us could not afford to live here and I'd prefer to stay.

What's your suggestion as to how we could make this work? India has tied up the cheap Maths/IT end of things, I'm not sure what else we can offer that we could export...

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

I agree with your viewpoint about looking for reasons why it would work - I've pointed out advantages that I think we have, and also why I think we're trumped by England in almost all respects for people looking to come North if we decide to become independent.

I've spent a significant portion of my life working with Europeans and I think we have an amazing country, but we can't cut ourselves off from the rest of the world if we become independent so we have to look at what we can offer than no-one else can.

My best suggestion to becoming self-sustaining is to become a really expensive, high end destination where we limit numbers coming into the country to maintain quality of the experience for those here. Unfortunately that would mean most of us could not afford to live here and I'd prefer to stay.

What's your suggestion as to how we could make this work? India has tied up the cheap Maths/IT end of things, I'm not sure what else we can offer that we could export...

I would be hoping for a government that would nationalise energy, transport, communications, (not fully nationalise but maybe in the way Welsh Water or Cardiff Airport are run), investment in infrastructure, get our own businesses to supply and build our roads, rail, buildings etc

Make sure that if someone is capable of working, give them something to do, care for others, improve your community.

Give our youth something meaningful to do with their time rather than wandering the streets at night, looking to entertain themselves with mischief.

Invest in education and the sciences, look to the future even if it means borrowing now.

Instil a sentiment of self-belief, pride and self-esteem in people, get people to care for their surroundings and their communities.

I would even legalise drugs in the same way Portugal has successfully done it. Look at it as a public health issue rather than a criminal one.

Make a bigger deal of our culture and history, encourage tourism. Get our film industry up and running. There's all kinds of things we could be doing as a nation if we got stuck into it rather than continue in this eternal malaise.

[blue matt]

Because the other option is to just continue as we are; a sickly nation, an afterthought to those in power, collecting the scraps.

.

this sums up the other sign of the nationalist, the glass 1/2 empty syndrome, always blaming every problem on someone else

I used to be a nationalist, always voted Plaid, then i moved away from Wales and realised, the English dont really hate the Welsh, they dont see them as the poor relative, The Welsh have a " poor old us, we are always hard done by " mentality , that is the issue that needs to be changed then maybe independence will follow

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

The Welsh have a " poor old us, we are always hard done by " mentality

Oooohhh, careful with the bullying now.

[GRUMPYS DEN]

this sums up the other sign of the nationalist, the glass 1/2 empty syndrome, always blaming every problem on someone else

I used to be a nationalist, always voted Plaid, then i moved away from Wales and realised, the English dont really hate the Welsh, they dont see them as the poor relative, The Welsh have a " poor old us, we are always hard done by " mentality , that is the issue that needs to be changed then maybe independence will follow

Will be unpalatable to some but true.Independence though-no thanks!!

[NYCBlue]

It's weird that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought forward, how many Welsh people will become impossibly contrary, nitpicking whatever detail they can find to justify to themselves why they should dismiss wholesale the notion of independence.

This nation once fought fierce and proud against its invaders but now, after hundreds of years of being treated like a poor relative in a backwater, we've become so accustomed to subjugation that the prospect of going it alone is too much to even contemplate, like a nationwide collective Stockholm Syndrome.

People are quick to say "Wales could NEVER prosper on its own", as if it's ever prospered under England or ever had the chance to try. We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed.

Now even our own people have been conditioned to believe they are not worthy of controlling their own destiny. Wales could be doing so much better for itself, but we'll never find that out as long as everyone is too scared to poke their heads above the parapet.

If Britain can survive without Europe, then Wales can survive without Britain.

If Wales left Britain and became part of the EU it would do more than survive. All Britain has done is take from Wales. Cardiff has surged as a result of Britain being in the EU, the rest of Wales would be so much better of in (political not geographic )Europe than Britain.