Corbyn 'borrowing' Trumps Speeches

[the other bob wilson]

The system IS rigged. UKIP can get 4 million votes and win 0 seats. The Lib Dems could get 20% of the vote and get 50 seats. Labour can get 160 seats with 24% of the vote.

...........................the Tories can form a majority Government with 24% of the eligible vote.

[ninianclark]

...........................the Tories can form a majority Government with 24% of the eligible vote.

In that case so could Labour, the way the UK system works is that you need to both heartland areas plus the swing seat marginals. If you are popular - but not that popular in constituencies then coming second or third counts for nothing (as UKIP found out). Which is why we nearly always have a Labour or Conservative Govt - so for Corbyn or May to call the system rigged like he did is BS - he is just copying Trump in order to give the under dog appeal etc.

Dont blame him really - I would do the same - it worked for Trump

[City123]

In that case so could Labour, the way the UK system works is that you need to both heartland areas plus the swing seat marginals. If you are popular - but not that popular in constituencies then coming second or third counts for nothing (as UKIP found out). Which is why we nearly always have a Labour or Conservative Govt - so for Corbyn or May to call the system rigged like he did is BS - he is just copying Trump in order to give the under dog appeal etc.

Dont blame him really - I would do the same - it worked for Trump

Its not rigged, its just a poor voting system, the British public voted against changing it in 2011

[surge]

On The Last Leg Friday there was one mention of Tim Farron's voting record on LBGTQ+ rights, a number of jokes about "sin" and no mention on any other party leader's voting records.

This is on a fairly left leaning and progressive programme let alone one of the many, many outlets which has a centre-right bias. I saw a video on facebook earlier in the week about a Labour MP asking Adam Bolton why he wasn't pressing the Conservative MP further on a failed election pledge and just accepting that it hadn't happened; in the clip the Sky News presenter had no answer and looked slightly bemused to be drawn up on the idea that if this was a Labour MP the grilling would go on for a lot longer. Or you can look further to the unbiased BBC and the Cardiff Uni study that showed an over reliance on stats coming from the Conservative party....

There is a clear difference between Trump stating that the media are against him in his disgraceful campaign and Corbyn suggesting that the media are largely centre-right, that the biggest donors are largely centre-right and that a centre-left candidate is fighting an uphill battle before they start.

[surge]

Its not rigged, its just a poor voting system, the British public voted against changing it in 2011

Although I'm not sure it's been updated since 2010 this website shows just how much voting power each individual has under the current voting system: http://m.voterpower.org.uk/cardiff-central

My first point on this matter is always the constituents like those in Sunderland where your individual vote matters so little that the campaign fades into the background and it's all about whether you be the first around the country to deliver the result. My second point is to draw attention to the article in the Daily Mail around 2015 where the young Tory states she won't bother voting as her area will never change from being Tory and so there is no need.

Brexit happened for many reasons but part of it was a feeling of being left behind and not represented by the political system as it is. If your vote simply doesn't matter then no wonder you feel left behind.

[Pearcey3]

On The Last Leg Friday there was one mention of Tim Farron's voting record on LBGTQ+ rights, a number of jokes about "sin" and no mention on any other party leader's voting records.

This is on a fairly left leaning and progressive programme let alone one of the many, many outlets which has a centre-right bias. I saw a video on facebook earlier in the week about a Labour MP asking Adam Bolton why he wasn't pressing the Conservative MP further on a failed election pledge and just accepting that it hadn't happened; in the clip the Sky News presenter had no answer and looked slightly bemused to be drawn up on the idea that if this was a Labour MP the grilling would go on for a lot longer. Or you can look further to the unbiased BBC and the Cardiff Uni study that showed an over reliance on stats coming from the Conservative party....

There is a clear difference between Trump stating that the media are against him in his disgraceful campaign and Corbyn suggesting that the media are largely centre-right, that the biggest donors are largely centre-right and that a centre-left candidate is fighting an uphill battle before they start.

Excellent post. There has also been a media narrative that austerity was the only game in town with no coverage given to the alternative of stimulating the economy/investment.
Similarly the EU Referendum was dominated by Tory politicians.

[ninianclark]

Excellent post. There has also been a media narrative that austerity was the only game in town with no coverage given to the alternative of stimulating the economy/investment.
Similarly the EU Referendum was dominated by Tory politicians.

Your right it's not the only game in town, and you dont have to look very to see the alternative. Mr Hollande was anti austerity and promised his "le changement"

http://speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/2017/01...nch-socialism/

I doubt you'll bother to read it though (but it's worth 5 mnutes) - it details the unravelling of that policy.

[Pearcey3]

Why do you doubt that I would "bother" to read it? You don't know me from Adam. Hollande didn't push on with his anti austerity programme and seems to have gone with austerity lite in the end. It looks like Macron will become the next President with an emphasis on public investment. Good for him.

[the other bob wilson]

Excellent post. There has also been a media narrative that austerity was the only game in town with no coverage given to the alternative of stimulating the economy/investment.
Similarly the EU Referendum was dominated by Tory politicians.

I agree about austerity, but, to be fair. one of the reasons the Referendum was dominated by Tory politicians was that the official opposition was so weak on the subject - I think a lot of Labour's problems stem from the dreadful Referendum campaign.

[Pearcey3]

[/B]

I agree about austerity, but, to be fair. one of the reasons the Referendum was dominated by Tory politicians was that the official opposition was so weak on the subject - I think a lot of Labour's problems stem from the dreadful Referendum campaign.

Yes I cannot deny how weak Labour politicians were in their public speaking during that campaign

[ninianclark]

Yes I cannot deny how weak Labour politicians were in their public speaking during that campaign

I just listened to radio wales this morning - when the Labour MP for Bridgend was asked about Labour defence policy etc. Jeremy will not use a preemptive first strike. Of what is your policy on a retaliation - would he order it - if the UK was hit - erm not sure. "We are having a strategic defence review"

If you remember this is what Gordon Brown ordered back before the last but one election he lost when John Robertson was to do a "strategic defence review policy" - after the election - in other words - kick it into the long grass and use that as an excuse for any question on defence. Interesting to see what he said back in Feb this year https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...bertson-hutton

The last 2 Govts have made many cut backs on the often over bloated defence budget - nowadays there seems to be more focus on cyber than anything else with it now being a tier 1 threat.

Weirdly enough I half agree with Corbyn on the first strike issue but I think trident (or the equivalent) is going to have be a price to be paid - would rather it was spent elsewhere, and if we could all give them up the world would be a happier place (perhaps) - but that wont be happening any time soon the way things are going - so Jezza and the Labour party really do need to make a policy on this - rather than his fudging (again)

[Pearcey3]

I just listened to radio wales this morning - when the Labour MP for Bridgend was asked about Labour defence policy etc. Jeremy will not use a preemptive first strike. Of what is your policy on a retaliation - would he order it - if the UK was hit - erm not sure. "We are having a strategic defence review"

If you remember this is what Gordon Brown ordered back before the last but one election he lost when John Robertson was to do a "strategic defence review policy" - after the election - in other words - kick it into the long grass and use that as an excuse for any question on defence. Interesting to see what he said back in Feb this year https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...bertson-hutton

The last 2 Govts have made many cut backs on the often over bloated defence budget - nowadays there seems to be more focus on cyber than anything else with it now being a tier 1 threat.

Weirdly enough I half agree with Corbyn on the first strike issue but I think trident (or the equivalent) is going to have be a price to be paid - would rather it was spent elsewhere, and if we could all give them up the world would be a happier place (perhaps) - but that wont be happening any time soon the way things are going - so Jezza and the Labour party really do need to make a policy on this - rather than his fudging (again)

Yes I agree. For Corbyn to appear to be going back on Labour policy regarding Trident at the start of a General Election campaign is idiotic and self serving. Its Labour policy to back having Trident. Corbyn needs to accept it.

[ninianclark]

Yes I agree. For Corbyn to appear to be going back on Labour policy regarding Trident at the start of a General Election campaign is idiotic and self serving. Its Labour policy to back having Trident. Corbyn needs to accept it.

He came a cropper on this last time as well during the leadership campaign, although no Labour voter seemed to care then - as he won.

I dont think it will be so easy for him this time - unless of course - the majority of voters think the same as him ?

I'm still amazed that Tony Blair and the Lib Dems have not 'come together' to form a Remain style second referendum party. I'm not fan of Blair - purely for personal Iraq reasons BUT I watched him yesterday give an interview - and like all Lawyers - he speaks very well and puts his case forward in an eloquent manner - which Corbyn really should follow - but like nearly all socialist - he ends shouting when he should be speaking