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Thread: This Tory campaign

  1. #1

    This Tory campaign

    It is coming across as being hugely cynical so far.

    I am no anti Tory, like many are grown from birth in south wales. Labour are morally superior regardless of what they do, and all that jazz. But this is quite poor.

    Pretty obvious tactics:

    Let labour run around in desperation mode. They'll be like a set of rabid dogs in opposition for the next month.

    The media rips into the desperate attempts from the opposition, while running with the narrative that the conservatives are the safe pair of hands throughout brexit.

    Not only the media, everyone I know who rarely follows politics seems to be saying it'll be a whitewash. So this suggests they'll vote for them?.

    And most importantly, Theresa May and her campaign act like they did in the below.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Theresa May was accused of hiding from residents on a Bristol housing estate and shutting reporters out of a factory visit in Cornwall, as the tightly controlled stage management of the Conservative election campaign came under scrutiny.

    The prime minister addressed at a social club on a housing estate in Brislington in the Labour-held seat of Bristol East, where she urged voters in the south-west not to return to backing the Liberal Democrats.

    However, residents of the estate were not invited and gathered outside waiting for a glimpse of May, while the audience inside was made up of Conservatives activists from across Bristol and South Gloucestershire.

    Theresa May awkwardly eating chips could be 2017's 'bacon sandwich'
    Read more
    It came after a furore over May’s earlier visit to the marginal seat of St Ives in Cornwall, where the county’s biggest news website was banned from filming the prime minister’s visit to a factory.

    Reporters from Cornwall Live complained that they were shut in a room to enforce the video ban while the prime minister was visiting a diving equipment factory in Helston.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ck-with-tories

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    No news is god news for them I suppose.

    Do as little media that could criticise yourselves - watch it all roll over.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 03-05-17 at 10:47.

  2. #2

    Re: This Tory campaign

    It's a campaign that is aimed at childlike minds. Will it be successful? The results will tell us quite a bit

  3. #3

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Its cynical and stage managed in the extreme. However Labour have failed abysmally and let down millions of us who want a very different future than the one the Tories have envidased for us.

  4. #4

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Labour are treating it like a normal General Election - when it isnt

    There are 2 questions that have to be answered :-
    Who do you want negotiating Brexit
    Who do you want as a PM

    Everything else is just foreplay. Theresa May must be laughing her c0ck off at Corbyns muppet show at the moment. She doesnt have to 'do' anything other than set out the spending commitments.

    What he should have done - is offer an alternative to Brexit and made that a choice for the people, eg a second referendum at the end of negotiations, a policy where he would call an immediate 2nd referendum etc.
    He would have picked up the remainers vote and the people who have changed their minds - all he would have to do - is convince people he competent PM (that one could be a struggle), but hey after Trump - anything is possible....

  5. #5

    Re: This Tory campaign

    I don't think Corbyn has ever wanted to be in the EU, it's a Blairite thing.

  6. #6

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Which is yet another problem for Labour - Corbyn voted against joining the 'EEC' in 1974, he has also voted against the major EU treaties.

    When interviewed by SkyNews Fasal Islam he said that TTIp was 75% complete and would cause havoc in the UK health system and others. Anyone watching that interview would be in not much doubt that he was a closet Leaver - at least on political principals if not economic ones or social ones.

  7. #7

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Which is yet another problem for Labour - Corbyn voted against joining the 'EEC' in 1974, he has also voted against the major EU treaties.

    When interviewed by SkyNews Fasal Islam he said that TTIp was 75% complete and would cause havoc in the UK health system and others. Anyone watching that interview would be in not much doubt that he was a closet Leaver - at least on political principals if not economic ones or social ones.
    I just re listened to this Corbyns interview - for the record he voted against the treaties as he thought it eroded workers rights and because Thatcher was in favour of it.

  8. #8

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I just re listened to this Corbyns interview - for the record he voted against the treaties as he thought it eroded workers rights and because Thatcher was in favour of it.
    I'd have more respect for him if he told his true feelings rather then 'this 7/10 nonsense

  9. #9

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    I'd have more respect for him if he told his true feelings rather then 'this 7/10 nonsense
    I can understand your view but it would have caused even more division within Labour ranks had he been that open. May was similarly coy. Even more so but has gotten away with it.

  10. #10

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I don't think Corbyn has ever wanted to be in the EU, it's a Blairite thing.
    Every action is a anti Blairite and their lies the parties problem , the party should be thinking forward ,not about everything Blair did was wrong .

    He made Labour electable, more than any other modern Labour leader , he amended clause 4 and was never forgiven , he was a bold reformer ,we may not agree with the reforms but you have to accept he won with 418 seats ,hard to think that happening now .

  11. #11

    Re: This Tory campaign

    And so it continues, does she think this is 'strong' leadership?

  12. #12

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKenwyne View Post
    It is coming across as being hugely cynical so far.

    I am no anti Tory, like many are grown from birth in south wales. Labour are morally superior regardless of what they do, and all that jazz. But this is quite poor.

    Pretty obvious tactics:

    Let labour run around in desperation mode. They'll be like a set of rabid dogs in opposition for the next month.

    The media rips into the desperate attempts from the opposition, while running with the narrative that the conservatives are the safe pair of hands throughout brexit.

    Not only the media, everyone I know who rarely follows politics seems to be saying it'll be a whitewash. So this suggests they'll vote for them?.

    And most importantly, Theresa May and her campaign act like they did in the below.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Theresa May was accused of hiding from residents on a Bristol housing estate and shutting reporters out of a factory visit in Cornwall, as the tightly controlled stage management of the Conservative election campaign came under scrutiny.

    The prime minister addressed at a social club on a housing estate in Brislington in the Labour-held seat of Bristol East, where she urged voters in the south-west not to return to backing the Liberal Democrats.

    However, residents of the estate were not invited and gathered outside waiting for a glimpse of May, while the audience inside was made up of Conservatives activists from across Bristol and South Gloucestershire.

    Theresa May awkwardly eating chips could be 2017's 'bacon sandwich'
    Read more
    It came after a furore over May’s earlier visit to the marginal seat of St Ives in Cornwall, where the county’s biggest news website was banned from filming the prime minister’s visit to a factory.

    Reporters from Cornwall Live complained that they were shut in a room to enforce the video ban while the prime minister was visiting a diving equipment factory in Helston.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ck-with-tories

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    No news is god news for them I suppose.

    Do as little media that could criticise yourselves - watch it all roll over.
    Politics is cynical , I remember folk backing Brexit whilst false posters were appearing about immigration queues , the redirection of the 350 million to the NHS , Labour needs to take its gloves off and man up.

  13. #13

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Labour are treating it like a normal General Election - when it isnt

    There are 2 questions that have to be answered :-
    Who do you want negotiating Brexit
    Who do you want as a PM

    Everything else is just foreplay. Theresa May must be laughing her c0ck off at Corbyns muppet show at the moment. She doesnt have to 'do' anything other than set out the spending commitments.

    What he should have done - is offer an alternative to Brexit and made that a choice for the people, eg a second referendum at the end of negotiations, a policy where he would call an immediate 2nd referendum etc.
    He would have picked up the remainers vote and the people who have changed their minds - all he would have to do - is convince people he competent PM (that one could be a struggle), but hey after Trump - anything is possible....
    Judging by her actions of the past 2 days, how on earth could you want May anywhere near those negotiations?

  14. #14

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Judging by her actions of the past 2 days, how on earth could you want May anywhere near those negotiations?
    Judging by the way Wales voted in the Brexit referendum ,they deserve everything that is coming their way , they will lose the generous EU funding, and now the the political landscape will be changed , you get what you wish for and sometimes it comes back and bites you hard .

  15. #15

    Re: This Tory campaign

    I think she's a genius.
    She's going to get all the backing tomorrow in the press due to her perceived Boudicca stand and what was a walk in the park wil now be a cartwheel for her.
    Sad that the UK has reverted to wanting leaders who spout jingoistic nonsense but there we are.
    I just don't see what amazing benefits Brexit is going to bring and the ****ing issue is going to dominate for the next few years.
    With an inept leadership of the opposition as well.
    Sigh......

  16. #16

    Re: This Tory campaign

    May has been keen to make this election about Brexit & it looks very much like Juncker & co have played right into her hands with their actions this week. The posturing from Brussels allowed May to give her it's us against them speech. In the last election UKIP won around 4m votes & I would not mind betting that the number planning to vote Tory increased today. Also about a third of SNP voters supported Brexit. If a fair number of these defect that could derail Sturgeon's independence plans, no wonder she appeared rattled when the general election was called & she was very quick to attack May again today.

    May has a very capable election strategist in her corner in Lynton Crosby & I would not mind betting that he had a hand in this weeks events.

  17. #17

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    I think she's a genius.
    She's going to get all the backing tomorrow in the press due to her perceived Boudicca stand and what was a walk in the park wil now be a cartwheel for her.
    Sad that the UK has reverted to wanting leaders who spout jingoistic nonsense but there we are.
    I just don't see what amazing benefits Brexit is going to bring and the ****ing issue is going to dominate for the next few years.
    With an inept leadership of the opposition as well.
    Sigh......
    Indeed it is jingoistic nonsense and the good old British electorate will lap it up. The sad part is that it is so easy for May to wheel out this rhetoric but the bigger picture is that it diminshes the prospects of a deal with the EU.
    There will be a day of reckoning for May. It will not happen for a few years but when it does happen she will be shown up for the weak politician that she really is

  18. #18

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Indeed it is jingoistic nonsense and the good old British electorate will lap it up. The sad part is that it is so easy for May to wheel out this rhetoric but the bigger picture is that it diminshes the prospects of a deal with the EU.
    There will be a day of reckoning for May. It will not happen for a few years but when it does happen she will be shown up for the weak politician that she really is
    Don't forget that of late Juncker & co have been operating in an pretty underhand & derogatory manner so was she supposed to cower away & say nothing or stand up for herself? Personally I think that they will show a bit more respect towards her now which improves the prospect of a deal with the EU. Also it is important to remember that these negotiations are not all one way as I am pretty certain that lot's of German industries are lobbying Merkel to ensure that their valuable UK export market is preserved. For example about 1 in 3 cars sold in the UK are German, with the market being worth about 18 billion pa to Volkswagen alone. With the problems Volkswagen have been encountering they can ill afford to see restrictions implemented in one of their most valuable market-places.

  19. #19

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonso Perez View Post
    Don't forget that of late Juncker & co have been operating in an pretty underhand & derogatory manner so was she supposed to cower away & say nothing or stand up for herself? Personally I think that they will show a bit more respect towards her now which improves the prospect of a deal with the EU. Also it is important to remember that these negotiations are not all one way as I am pretty certain that lot's of German industries are lobbying Merkel to ensure that their valuable UK export market is preserved. For example about 1 in 3 cars sold in the UK are German, with the market being worth about 18 billion pa to Volkswagen alone. With the problems Volkswagen have been encountering they can ill afford to see restrictions implemented in one of their most valuable market-places.

    I am very wary of what the rabid right wing press allege what Juncker has said.He is perceived to be even more appalling than Corbyn. It will be very much part and parcel of Brexit negotiations.The heroic Mrs May up against the wicked Juncker and co.Its been grandstanding by May.....playing the patriotic card which she knows will firm up her support.

    Yes we are a hugh importer of EU products and no deal with negatively impact upon the export markets of EU members particularly German car manufacturers but the stakes are very high for the EU and they can ill afford to be generous in any deal.

  20. #20

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    I am very wary of what the rabid right wing press allege what Juncker has said.He is perceived to be even more appalling than Corbyn. It will be very much part and parcel of Brexit negotiations.The heroic Mrs May up against the wicked Juncker and co.Its been grandstanding by May.....playing the patriotic card which she knows will firm up her support.

    Yes we are a hugh importer of EU products and no deal with negatively impact upon the export markets of EU members particularly German car manufacturers but the stakes are very high for the EU and they can ill afford to be generous in any deal.
    This was not just right wing propaganda, this was about Juncker & his mates leaking information which they had no right to divulge & trying to belittle May in the process. I do think that their actions this week though have been more about trying to influence the French election rather than ours - if Le Pen wins this could spell the end for the EU so being seen to take a hard line against the UK could be a way of trying to persuade the French voters that a vote for Macron is a far better course of action.

    The stakes are high all round although I do think that an acceptable compromise can be reached on the majority of key issues as long as there is give & take on both sides.

  21. #21

    Re: This Tory campaign

    What happens after the the GE? Nobody seems to be talking about the need to redraft the constitution post-Brexit. Whose interests will be favoured, and are there any groups involved who will be hoping to leverage their support of specific candidates? A huge mandate at the ballot-box will effect more than just the Brexit negotions, it will shape the future of the British people and how we are governed.

  22. #22

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonso Perez View Post
    This was not just right wing propaganda, this was about Juncker & his mates leaking information which they had no right to divulge & trying to belittle May in the process. I do think that their actions this week though have been more about trying to influence the French election rather than ours - if Le Pen wins this could spell the end for the EU so being seen to take a hard line against the UK could be a way of trying to persuade the French voters that a vote for Macron is a far better course of action.

    The stakes are high all round although I do think that an acceptable compromise can be reached on the majority of key issues as long as there is give & take on both sides.
    What are you referring to when you say that the EU are taking a hard line?

  23. #23

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonso Perez View Post
    This was not just right wing propaganda, this was about Juncker & his mates leaking information which they had no right to divulge & trying to belittle May in the process. I do think that their actions this week though have been more about trying to influence the French election rather than ours - if Le Pen wins this could spell the end for the EU so being seen to take a hard line against the UK could be a way of trying to persuade the French voters that a vote for Macron is a far better course of action.

    The stakes are high all round although I do think that an acceptable compromise can be reached on the majority of key issues as long as there is give & take on both sides.
    Spot on, and we next have the German elections in September, that's why Merkel is in Russia as we speak, trying to look strong on the world's stage , your right about France and with Germany going to the polls European leaders are looking over their shoulders with worry , they cannot be seen to be handing or being weak on any deal with the UK ,mhence all this recent rhetoric ,May is not divulging the content of her meetings , Juncker & his mates are , which is not the right etiquette, it shows how worried they are , as its timing is apt as France heads to the polls on the 7th .

    May will be tested over the next few years , think a strong approach is needed , folk talk about May's behaviour to them , I think theirs has been equally poor and bullish.

  24. #24

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Cynical Tory campaign based on xenophobia, jingoism and backed by our rabid, right wing press and the masses.
    Hapless Labour Campaign from a completely divided party.
    We are heading for a one party state stuck on this Island of Little Englanders like Turkeys voting for the Christmas of deregulation, zero hours contracts etc under the guise of 'The brave new post brexit' world.

    I am personally completely depressed by the current state of UK politics and will yet again vote Plaid Cymru in the vain hope that Wales will wake up and follow the lead of our Cousin's up North who may be pissing the Establishment off, but are at least getting their voices heard by voting for a viable and organised alternative.

    Look at France where you have the discredited establishment vs the Far Right....how depressing a choice is that????
    Watching Wales Today reporting on a potential Tory sweep across Wales gaining the votes of UKIP voters, I give up and understand those who say we deserve all we get when we end up living in May's Kingdom of w'England!

  25. #25

    Re: This Tory campaign

    keep it to yourself but.... we've had a Labour Govt at the WAG for the last 18 odd years - if you want a one party state - take a peak down Cardiff Bay. Change or the potential for change keeps politicians on their toes whichever way it swings.

  26. #26

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    What are you referring to when you say that the EU are taking a hard line?
    There are lot's of examples, here are a few:

    A 'divorce bill' which is increasing by the day & now stands at 100 Billion Euros
    A refusal to acknowledge that we are entitled to a share of EU assets, despite the UK being one of the main financial contributors for many years.
    Refusing parallel exit talks via insisting that trade talks will not occur until a financial statement has been done & dusted. It has been suggested though that the EU are keen to talk about security & anti-terrorism co-operation at the earliest possible opportunity as they rely so much on our intelligence services.
    Despite the UK wanting to agree an early deal about the rights of EU citizens in the UK & UK citizens in the EU, this has been scuppered by the EU insisting we have to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court for EU citizens so effectively our UK laws can be overruled by a foreign court in respect of a significant part of our population.
    Wanting to block our Prime Minister from being part of the negotiations despite other leaders (e.g. Merkel) clearly dictating terms.
    Martin Selmayr (Juncker's right hand man) this week saying openly that 'Brexit will not become a success'



    There is a good article here about how the EU operate in 'negotiations' & oddly enough one of the things he predicted happened 2 days ago:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/04/29/eu-bully/
    Last edited by Alfonso Perez; 04-05-17 at 08:24.

  27. #27

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by blueslippers View Post
    Cynical Tory campaign based on xenophobia, jingoism and backed by our rabid, right wing press and the masses.
    Hapless Labour Campaign from a completely divided party.
    We are heading for a one party state stuck on this Island of Little Englanders like Turkeys voting for the Christmas of deregulation, zero hours contracts etc under the guise of 'The brave new post brexit' world.

    I am personally completely depressed by the current state of UK politics and will yet again vote Plaid Cymru in the vain hope that Wales will wake up and follow the lead of our Cousin's up North who may be pissing the Establishment off, but are at least getting their voices heard by voting for a viable and organised alternative.

    Look at France where you have the discredited establishment vs the Far Right....how depressing a choice is that????
    Watching Wales Today reporting on a potential Tory sweep across Wales gaining the votes of UKIP voters, I give up and understand those who say we deserve all we get when we end up living in May's Kingdom of w'England!
    I don't recognise your description of this country , and lets be fair to the electorate they can make decisions as they did with Brexit ,many firms don't operate zero hours contracts , many people prefer them, the Tories didn't impose this employment, they have existed for decades, so why are they suddenly a hot topic, is that a left leaning current moan ? ?

    If folk in Wales don't want to be be part of the Tory landslide ,a tick in a box for someone else is available .

    Blair showed Labour the way ,okay we don't have to follow his mantra, just his example , he knew how to appeal to the middle ground , the middle ground sits in every country not just England, they have average simple wage jobs, couple of kids , a mortgage , and it all needs protection , hence the mindset of the ( alleged ) appeal of a safe pair of hands in May .

    A party needs to step up and be different but financially sensible,folk have very deep memories of monetary problems which effects that middle ground badly, a party needs to be different from your previous parties politics , just look at the success and appeal of the SNP .

    A party has to avoid fringe controversies , moan , and blame politics ,and it policies has to add up, and be seen as strong, and that's why we are, where we are .

    No I'm not a Tory , just a a very troubled ,sad , life long Labour voter.

  28. #28

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonso Perez View Post
    There are lot's of examples, here are a few:

    A 'divorce bill' which is increasing by the day & now stands at 100 Billion Euros
    A refusal to acknowledge that we are entitled to a share of EU assets, despite the UK being one of the main financial contributors for many years.
    Refusing parallel exit talks via insisting that trade talks will not occur until a financial statement has been done & dusted. It has been suggested though that the EU are keen to talk about security & anti-terrorism co-operation at the earliest possible opportunity as they rely so much on our intelligence services.
    Despite the UK wanting to agree an early deal about the rights of EU citizens in the UK & UK citizens in the EU, this has been scuppered by the EU insisting we have to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court for EU citizens so effectively our UK laws can be overruled by a foreign court in respect of a significant part of our population.
    Wanting to block our Prime Minister from being part of the negotiations despite other leaders (e.g. Merkel) clearly dictating terms.
    Martin Selmayr (Juncker's right hand man) this week saying openly that 'Brexit will not become a success'



    There is a good article here about how the EU operate in 'negotiations' & oddly enough one of the things he predicted happened 2 days ago:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/04/29/eu-bully/
    I am almost certain no one from the eu has publicly set an amount that we will have to pay. That 100 billion was calculated by the financial times.

    I can see why you want it to be an us and them, it makes it simpler but the reality is we have a load of people sitting around a table deciding our futures who are all financially secure and therefore have little stake in the outcome.

  29. #29

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I am almost certain no one from the eu has publicly set an amount that we will have to pay. That 100 billion was calculated by the financial times.

    I can see why you want it to be an us and them, it makes it simpler but the reality is we have a load of people sitting around a table deciding our futures who are all financially secure and therefore have little stake in the outcome.
    This guy has been there, seen it, done it so has a rough idea of how they work :-

  30. #30

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I am almost certain no one from the eu has publicly set an amount that we will have to pay. That 100 billion was calculated by the financial times.

    I can see why you want it to be an us and them, it makes it simpler but the reality is we have a load of people sitting around a table deciding our futures who are all financially secure and therefore have little stake in the outcome.

    The FT are saying the ultimate source was the EU following a request to increase the amount, particularly from France & Germany who have probably realised that they are going to stump up a lot more cash when we leave noting that the majority of EU members get more cash back than they actually put in. Also I have not seen any denial from the EU about the 100bn euro sum despite having ample opportunity to do so.

    Personally I do not want it to be an us & them, I voted remain & have not changed my mind although admittedly some of the methods being employed by Juncker & co have made me question my decision. That said stupid comments by Boris & Farage have not helped the situation either. I remain firmly of the opinion that give & take is required from both sides to obtain the best possible outcome. If either side resorts to bully boy tactics then the talks are doomed to fail in my view. I hope that what we are seeing at present is initial posturing & when talks begin in earnest a far more professional & respectful stance will be taken by both parties.

  31. #31

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonso Perez View Post
    The FT are saying the ultimate source was the EU following a request to increase the amount, particularly from France & Germany who have probably realised that they are going to stump up a lot more cash when we leave noting that the majority of EU members get more cash back than they actually put in. Also I have not seen any denial from the EU about the 100bn euro sum despite having ample opportunity to do so.

    Personally I do not want it to be an us & them, I voted remain & have not changed my mind although admittedly some of the methods being employed by Juncker & co have made me question my decision. That said stupid comments by Boris & Farage have not helped the situation either. I remain firmly of the opinion that give & take is required from both sides to obtain the best possible outcome. If either side resorts to bully boy tactics then the talks are doomed to fail in my view. I hope that what we are seeing at present is initial posturing & when talks begin in earnest a far more professional & respectful stance will be taken by both parties.
    How is this evidence of meddling in our election?? The ft dig for information from sources at the eu, they receive it and publish it. So what?

    So you don't think May throwing her toys out of the pram yesterday was playing games too?

    The EU have sat there listening to a load of rubbish spouted from the leave campaign for a year about how the eu needs us more than we need them, this has stance has now been adopted by May and her government. It is hardly surprising that Juncker is sticking the boot in where he can.

    You may not want it to be 'us and them'. But you appear to have gobbled up every word that May said yesterday as gospel. Evil evil EU eh?
    Last edited by Eric Cartman; 04-05-17 at 10:40.

  32. #32

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonso Perez View Post
    The FT are saying the ultimate source was the EU following a request to increase the amount, particularly from France & Germany who have probably realised that they are going to stump up a lot more cash when we leave noting that the majority of EU members get more cash back than they actually put in. Also I have not seen any denial from the EU about the 100bn euro sum despite having ample opportunity to do so.

    Personally I do not want it to be an us & them, I voted remain & have not changed my mind although admittedly some of the methods being employed by Juncker & co have made me question my decision. That said stupid comments by Boris & Farage have not helped the situation either. I remain firmly of the opinion that give & take is required from both sides to obtain the best possible outcome. If either side resorts to bully boy tactics then the talks are doomed to fail in my view. I hope that what we are seeing at present is initial posturing & when talks begin in earnest a far more professional & respectful stance will be taken by both parties.
    I would imagine that's because it's such a massively complex matter that it's impossible to put a figure on it. So why would they even comment?

    "No, it'll be less" "No, it'll be more"

    There is no benefit to anyone by saying either of these.

    Also, from what I've seen and heard so far from our government and politicians - the bland soundbites like 'brexit means brexit' and 'red white and blue brexit', and the shaky ground when they've tried to get more complex, be it ex-pats/migrants or trade - that I can quite believe Juncker is speaking the truth when he says that May and her government are deluded and don't really understand the scale of what they're getting in to. It doesn't seem like posturing or bullyboy, it seems a pretty accurate description.

  33. #33

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I would imagine that's because it's such a massively complex matter that it's impossible to put a figure on it. So why would they even comment?

    "No, it'll be less" "No, it'll be more"

    There is no benefit to anyone by saying either of these.

    Also, from what I've seen and heard so far from our government and politicians - the bland soundbites like 'brexit means brexit' and 'red white and blue brexit', and the shaky ground when they've tried to get more complex, be it ex-pats/migrants or trade - that I can quite believe Juncker is speaking the truth when he says that May and her government are deluded and don't really understand the scale of what they're getting in to. It doesn't seem like posturing or bullyboy, it seems a pretty accurate description.
    I wouldn't listen to work Juncker says - have a read from this article in THE GUARDIAN https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ker-commission

    Alcoholic, corrupt and incompetent are three traits that come to mind - as well as unelected

  34. #34

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I wouldn't listen to work Juncker says - have a read from this article in THE GUARDIAN https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ker-commission

    Alcoholic, corrupt and incompetent are three traits that come to mind - as well as unelected
    None of that affects the previous behaviour of May and her cabinet, which is what I am basing my opinion on.

  35. #35

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    None of that affects the previous behaviour of May and her cabinet, which is what I am basing my opinion on.
    Yes lovely man this quote somes it up " The worst damage Europe's socialists will inflict when they endorse a man who has done as much harm as any politician his generation is easy to describe. They will prove the extremists right."

    "" What heavy industry the duchy had was vanishing by the early 1990s. During Juncker's reign as Luxembourg's prime minister from 1995 to 2013, the duchy reinvented itself as Europe's largest tax haven: a land fit for Bernie Madoff to trade through. It allowed conglomerates to avoid tax through intermediate holding companies solely.""

  36. #36

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by blueslippers View Post
    Cynical Tory campaign based on xenophobia, jingoism and backed by our rabid, right wing press and the masses.
    Hapless Labour Campaign from a completely divided party.
    We are heading for a one party state stuck on this Island of Little Englanders like Turkeys voting for the Christmas of deregulation, zero hours contracts etc under the guise of 'The brave new post brexit' world.

    I am personally completely depressed by the current state of UK politics and will yet again vote Plaid Cymru in the vain hope that Wales will wake up and follow the lead of our Cousin's up North who may be pissing the Establishment off, but are at least getting their voices heard by voting for a viable and organised alternative.

    Look at France where you have the discredited establishment vs the Far Right....how depressing a choice is that????
    Watching Wales Today reporting on a potential Tory sweep across Wales gaining the votes of UKIP voters, I give up and understand those who say we deserve all we get when we end up living in May's Kingdom of w'England!
    Considering the campaigns are less than a week old what is the evidence for:

    Cynical Tory campaign based on xenophobia

    People in Britain know barely anything of true xenophobia and subjugation.

    UK is a utopia compared to the vast majority of the world in regards to minorities living in peace. However much Labour etc bang on about it being otherwise. They're wasting time running with the idea, but it'll get them some cheap votes I suppose from the people who love fighting for that sort of thing even when it isn't needed.

    The left are the nice guys and they have to create storylines to keep that image.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 04-05-17 at 15:20.

  37. #37

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Yes lovely man this quote somes it up " The worst damage Europe's socialists will inflict when they endorse a man who has done as much harm as any politician his generation is easy to describe. They will prove the extremists right."

    "" What heavy industry the duchy had was vanishing by the early 1990s. During Juncker's reign as Luxembourg's prime minister from 1995 to 2013, the duchy reinvented itself as Europe's largest tax haven: a land fit for Bernie Madoff to trade through. It allowed conglomerates to avoid tax through intermediate holding companies solely.""
    That is us soon, the 97p store.

  38. #38

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    That is us soon, the 97p store.
    Well this might well be our only option if we dont get a deal as we have to survive .

    Juncker' knows this, hence all his outspoken rhetoric , he they know there is an election and it does seem strange these outburst of language are being heard now , they must know election soundbite is ceased upon , so yes covertly they are trying to influence our election , by means of these unwelcome statements .

  39. #39

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Imports/exports are broadly similar but GDP is not. Exports account for 10% or so of our GDP. Imports account for less than 2% of the EUs GDP.

  40. #40

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    How is this evidence of meddling in our election?? The ft dig for information from sources at the eu, they receive it and publish it. So what?

    Where have I said that they are meddling in our election?

    So you don't think May throwing her toys out of the pram yesterday was playing games too?

    You will see further up the thread my views on this in that I think that Juncker may have played right into May's hands & I have suggested that Lynton Crosby may have played a role in this strategy. Apparently Juncker has a reputation of liking alcohol a bit too much so maybe they opened their best bottle of port & have played him like a banjo


    The EU have sat there listening to a load of rubbish spouted from the leave campaign for a year about how the eu needs us more than we need them, this has stance has now been adopted by May and her government. It is hardly surprising that Juncker is sticking the boot in where he can.

    Where has this stance been adopted by May as I don't recall her ever saying the EU needs us more than we need them?

    Idiots like Johnson & Farage have been making stupid comments as I have acknowledged within this thread, that does not excuse what Juncker & his chums have done though as two wrongs do not make a right. Why did they attack May as opposed to the likes of Johnson & Farage as before yesterday she has been very respectful towards the EU (including Juncker)? At the end of the day Juncker should remember that the UK tax payer helps to fund his inflated salary package (over double what our PM earns) & as an unelected bureaucrat maybe he should show a bit more respect to democratically elected senior politicians from this country. In short he has no business sticking the boot in as you put it.

    I would be interested to know how you think May should have responded this week?

    You may not want it to be 'us and them'. But you appear to have gobbled up every word that May said yesterday as gospel. Evil evil EU eh?
    I think it is incredibly rich you saying that when you appear to have taken a such polarised view yourself, noting that your stance appears to be very much anti-May, so have you gobbled up all that the EU have been saying or are you just letting your political leanings cloud your judgement here? For your information I have gobbled up nothing, I am just trying to put a balanced view across which some may disagree with but that's life. As I said I voted remain but that doesn't mean that I blindly support everything that the EU has done & this weeks unfortunate exchanges are a good example of how some of the less scrupulous members of the EU operate.

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