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Thread: This Tory campaign

  1. #31

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonso Perez View Post
    The FT are saying the ultimate source was the EU following a request to increase the amount, particularly from France & Germany who have probably realised that they are going to stump up a lot more cash when we leave noting that the majority of EU members get more cash back than they actually put in. Also I have not seen any denial from the EU about the 100bn euro sum despite having ample opportunity to do so.

    Personally I do not want it to be an us & them, I voted remain & have not changed my mind although admittedly some of the methods being employed by Juncker & co have made me question my decision. That said stupid comments by Boris & Farage have not helped the situation either. I remain firmly of the opinion that give & take is required from both sides to obtain the best possible outcome. If either side resorts to bully boy tactics then the talks are doomed to fail in my view. I hope that what we are seeing at present is initial posturing & when talks begin in earnest a far more professional & respectful stance will be taken by both parties.
    How is this evidence of meddling in our election?? The ft dig for information from sources at the eu, they receive it and publish it. So what?

    So you don't think May throwing her toys out of the pram yesterday was playing games too?

    The EU have sat there listening to a load of rubbish spouted from the leave campaign for a year about how the eu needs us more than we need them, this has stance has now been adopted by May and her government. It is hardly surprising that Juncker is sticking the boot in where he can.

    You may not want it to be 'us and them'. But you appear to have gobbled up every word that May said yesterday as gospel. Evil evil EU eh?
    Last edited by Eric Cartman; 04-05-17 at 11:40.

  2. #32

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonso Perez View Post
    The FT are saying the ultimate source was the EU following a request to increase the amount, particularly from France & Germany who have probably realised that they are going to stump up a lot more cash when we leave noting that the majority of EU members get more cash back than they actually put in. Also I have not seen any denial from the EU about the 100bn euro sum despite having ample opportunity to do so.

    Personally I do not want it to be an us & them, I voted remain & have not changed my mind although admittedly some of the methods being employed by Juncker & co have made me question my decision. That said stupid comments by Boris & Farage have not helped the situation either. I remain firmly of the opinion that give & take is required from both sides to obtain the best possible outcome. If either side resorts to bully boy tactics then the talks are doomed to fail in my view. I hope that what we are seeing at present is initial posturing & when talks begin in earnest a far more professional & respectful stance will be taken by both parties.
    I would imagine that's because it's such a massively complex matter that it's impossible to put a figure on it. So why would they even comment?

    "No, it'll be less" "No, it'll be more"

    There is no benefit to anyone by saying either of these.

    Also, from what I've seen and heard so far from our government and politicians - the bland soundbites like 'brexit means brexit' and 'red white and blue brexit', and the shaky ground when they've tried to get more complex, be it ex-pats/migrants or trade - that I can quite believe Juncker is speaking the truth when he says that May and her government are deluded and don't really understand the scale of what they're getting in to. It doesn't seem like posturing or bullyboy, it seems a pretty accurate description.

  3. #33

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I would imagine that's because it's such a massively complex matter that it's impossible to put a figure on it. So why would they even comment?

    "No, it'll be less" "No, it'll be more"

    There is no benefit to anyone by saying either of these.

    Also, from what I've seen and heard so far from our government and politicians - the bland soundbites like 'brexit means brexit' and 'red white and blue brexit', and the shaky ground when they've tried to get more complex, be it ex-pats/migrants or trade - that I can quite believe Juncker is speaking the truth when he says that May and her government are deluded and don't really understand the scale of what they're getting in to. It doesn't seem like posturing or bullyboy, it seems a pretty accurate description.
    I wouldn't listen to work Juncker says - have a read from this article in THE GUARDIAN https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ker-commission

    Alcoholic, corrupt and incompetent are three traits that come to mind - as well as unelected

  4. #34

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I wouldn't listen to work Juncker says - have a read from this article in THE GUARDIAN https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ker-commission

    Alcoholic, corrupt and incompetent are three traits that come to mind - as well as unelected
    None of that affects the previous behaviour of May and her cabinet, which is what I am basing my opinion on.

  5. #35

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    None of that affects the previous behaviour of May and her cabinet, which is what I am basing my opinion on.
    Yes lovely man this quote somes it up " The worst damage Europe's socialists will inflict when they endorse a man who has done as much harm as any politician his generation is easy to describe. They will prove the extremists right."

    "" What heavy industry the duchy had was vanishing by the early 1990s. During Juncker's reign as Luxembourg's prime minister from 1995 to 2013, the duchy reinvented itself as Europe's largest tax haven: a land fit for Bernie Madoff to trade through. It allowed conglomerates to avoid tax through intermediate holding companies solely.""

  6. #36

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by blueslippers View Post
    Cynical Tory campaign based on xenophobia, jingoism and backed by our rabid, right wing press and the masses.
    Hapless Labour Campaign from a completely divided party.
    We are heading for a one party state stuck on this Island of Little Englanders like Turkeys voting for the Christmas of deregulation, zero hours contracts etc under the guise of 'The brave new post brexit' world.

    I am personally completely depressed by the current state of UK politics and will yet again vote Plaid Cymru in the vain hope that Wales will wake up and follow the lead of our Cousin's up North who may be pissing the Establishment off, but are at least getting their voices heard by voting for a viable and organised alternative.

    Look at France where you have the discredited establishment vs the Far Right....how depressing a choice is that????
    Watching Wales Today reporting on a potential Tory sweep across Wales gaining the votes of UKIP voters, I give up and understand those who say we deserve all we get when we end up living in May's Kingdom of w'England!
    Considering the campaigns are less than a week old what is the evidence for:

    Cynical Tory campaign based on xenophobia

    People in Britain know barely anything of true xenophobia and subjugation.

    UK is a utopia compared to the vast majority of the world in regards to minorities living in peace. However much Labour etc bang on about it being otherwise. They're wasting time running with the idea, but it'll get them some cheap votes I suppose from the people who love fighting for that sort of thing even when it isn't needed.

    The left are the nice guys and they have to create storylines to keep that image.
    Last edited by LordKenwyne; 04-05-17 at 16:20.

  7. #37

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Yes lovely man this quote somes it up " The worst damage Europe's socialists will inflict when they endorse a man who has done as much harm as any politician his generation is easy to describe. They will prove the extremists right."

    "" What heavy industry the duchy had was vanishing by the early 1990s. During Juncker's reign as Luxembourg's prime minister from 1995 to 2013, the duchy reinvented itself as Europe's largest tax haven: a land fit for Bernie Madoff to trade through. It allowed conglomerates to avoid tax through intermediate holding companies solely.""
    That is us soon, the 97p store.

  8. #38

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    That is us soon, the 97p store.
    Well this might well be our only option if we dont get a deal as we have to survive .

    Juncker' knows this, hence all his outspoken rhetoric , he they know there is an election and it does seem strange these outburst of language are being heard now , they must know election soundbite is ceased upon , so yes covertly they are trying to influence our election , by means of these unwelcome statements .

  9. #39
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    Re: This Tory campaign

    Imports/exports are broadly similar but GDP is not. Exports account for 10% or so of our GDP. Imports account for less than 2% of the EUs GDP.

  10. #40

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    How is this evidence of meddling in our election?? The ft dig for information from sources at the eu, they receive it and publish it. So what?

    Where have I said that they are meddling in our election?

    So you don't think May throwing her toys out of the pram yesterday was playing games too?

    You will see further up the thread my views on this in that I think that Juncker may have played right into May's hands & I have suggested that Lynton Crosby may have played a role in this strategy. Apparently Juncker has a reputation of liking alcohol a bit too much so maybe they opened their best bottle of port & have played him like a banjo


    The EU have sat there listening to a load of rubbish spouted from the leave campaign for a year about how the eu needs us more than we need them, this has stance has now been adopted by May and her government. It is hardly surprising that Juncker is sticking the boot in where he can.

    Where has this stance been adopted by May as I don't recall her ever saying the EU needs us more than we need them?

    Idiots like Johnson & Farage have been making stupid comments as I have acknowledged within this thread, that does not excuse what Juncker & his chums have done though as two wrongs do not make a right. Why did they attack May as opposed to the likes of Johnson & Farage as before yesterday she has been very respectful towards the EU (including Juncker)? At the end of the day Juncker should remember that the UK tax payer helps to fund his inflated salary package (over double what our PM earns) & as an unelected bureaucrat maybe he should show a bit more respect to democratically elected senior politicians from this country. In short he has no business sticking the boot in as you put it.

    I would be interested to know how you think May should have responded this week?

    You may not want it to be 'us and them'. But you appear to have gobbled up every word that May said yesterday as gospel. Evil evil EU eh?
    I think it is incredibly rich you saying that when you appear to have taken a such polarised view yourself, noting that your stance appears to be very much anti-May, so have you gobbled up all that the EU have been saying or are you just letting your political leanings cloud your judgement here? For your information I have gobbled up nothing, I am just trying to put a balanced view across which some may disagree with but that's life. As I said I voted remain but that doesn't mean that I blindly support everything that the EU has done & this weeks unfortunate exchanges are a good example of how some of the less scrupulous members of the EU operate.

  11. #41

    Re: This Tory campaign

    The Tory dumbing down continues with prospective candidates told to refer to themselves as Theresa May's local candidate. No mention that they are Tories.

  12. #42

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    The Tory dumbing down continues with prospective candidates told to refer to themselves as Theresa May's local candidate. No mention that they are Tories.
    I havent seen the stuff re being called Theresa May's local candidate - but I have seen Plaid Cymru rebrand themselves as Cardiff Plaid for the local election and I have seen lots of boards up saying "Welsh Labour" as if they are some how different than Corbyn's Labour , mind you - I think the 'Welsh Conservatives' called themselves that for the same reasons - so I wouldnt let it worry you

  13. #43

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I havent seen the stuff re being called Theresa May's local candidate - but I have seen Plaid Cymru rebrand themselves as Cardiff Plaid for the local election and I have seen lots of boards up saying "Welsh Labour" as if they are some how different than Corbyn's Labour , mind you - I think the 'Welsh Conservatives' called themselves that for the same reasons - so I wouldnt let it worry you
    This goes a stage further. It would appear the Theresa May party will be in office after the General Election. She does like control and seems to pathologically hate any opposition at all.
    From now on I am going to have to say "Bloody Theresa Mays".

  14. #44

    Re: This Tory campaign

    https://www.joe.co.uk/news/comment-t...-for-it-123879

    This sums up the campaign quite well

  15. #45

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonso Perez View Post
    I think it is incredibly rich you saying that when you appear to have taken a such polarised view yourself, noting that your stance appears to be very much anti-May, so have you gobbled up all that the EU have been saying or are you just letting your political leanings cloud your judgement here? For your information I have gobbled up nothing, I am just trying to put a balanced view across which some may disagree with but that's life. As I said I voted remain but that doesn't mean that I blindly support everything that the EU has done & this weeks unfortunate exchanges are a good example of how some of the less scrupulous members of the EU operate.
    Not into gobbling, just very sceptical from the beginning that this government has any clue what they are doing with Brexit. May has spent the last few months telling everyone that we need to be discrete and professional and then after one meeting she hauls the press to Downing Street so they can watch her throw her toys out of the pram.

    I haven't supported anything the EU does/doesn't do or has said. I wan't our Prime Minister to look as though she isn't losing her shit because what her and the rest of the government do over Brexit is actually quite important.

  16. #46

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    https://www.joe.co.uk/news/comment-t...-for-it-123879

    This sums up the campaign quite well
    Yes it does. The 2 up with ten to go analogy is spot on. A PM unwilling to connect with the electorate in any way at all. Its pitiful.

  17. #47

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Yes it does. The 2 up with ten to go analogy is spot on. A PM unwilling to connect with the electorate in any way at all. Its pitiful.
    Face facts boys and admit it - you have a passionate hatred for anyone who is a conservative or anyone who has voted conservative. You hated Thatcher, you hated Major, you despised Cameron and Osbourne, and now you turn all your bile against May. In reality though it wouldn't matter who was elected Tory Leader you would hate them to.

    Mother fecking Theresa could have a blue rosette on and you would no doubt act the same way. No problem though lads - this is only a Cardiff City Message Board afterall

  18. #48

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Not into gobbling, just very sceptical from the beginning that this government has any clue what they are doing with Brexit. May has spent the last few months telling everyone that we need to be discrete and professional and then after one meeting she hauls the press to Downing Street so they can watch her throw her toys out of the pram.

    I haven't supported anything the EU does/doesn't do or has said. I wan't our Prime Minister to look as though she isn't losing her shit because what her and the rest of the government do over Brexit is actually quite important.
    Easy there Princess you'll give yerself a coronary.

  19. #49

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Face facts boys and admit it - you have a passionate hatred for anyone who is a conservative or anyone who has voted conservative. You hated Thatcher, you hated Major, you despised Cameron and Osbourne, and now you turn all your bile against May. In reality though it wouldn't matter who was elected Tory Leader you would hate them to.

    Mother fecking Theresa could have a blue rosette on and you would no doubt act the same way. No problem though lads - this is only a Cardiff City Message Board afterall
    Wow. Hang on sunshine. My best mates voted Tory and UKIP. We have fierce arguments but I do not chose friends based on their politics. At a guess I have more friends who vote Tory than any other party. You do not know me so don't make such generalised comments about someone who is a total stranger to you.
    As for Tory politicians there are some decent ones out there. Ken Clark,Anna Soubry and even David Davis are people I have respect for. May is awful.

  20. #50

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Wow. Hang on sunshine. My best mates voted Tory and UKIP. We have fierce arguments but I do not chose friends based on their politics. At a guess I have more friends who vote Tory than any other party. You do not know me so don't make such generalised comments about someone who is a total stranger to you.
    As for Tory politicians there are some decent ones out there. Ken Clark,Anna Soubry and even David Davis are people I have respect for. May is awful.
    Anna Soubry says it all

  21. #51

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    Anna Soubry says it all
    Well she spoke more accurately for the 48% of us that voted Remain than any other politician. I suspect you voted out and would see her differently

  22. #52

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Wow. Hang on sunshine. My best mates voted Tory and UKIP. We have fierce arguments but I do not chose friends based on their politics. At a guess I have more friends who vote Tory than any other party. You do not know me so don't make such generalised comments about someone who is a total stranger to you.
    As for Tory politicians there are some decent ones out there. Ken Clark,Anna Soubry and even David Davis are people I have respect for. May is awful.

    Theresa May - the longest ever serving Home Secretary (without getting sacked) , so awful she isn't. You may hate because of her politics, because she is a woman, because she has grey hair, no children or even because she is diabetic. But to say she is awful at her job is pushing it some. But each to their own I guess.

  23. #53

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Theresa May - the longest ever serving Home Secretary (without getting sacked) , so awful she isn't. You may hate because of her politics, because she is a woman, because she has grey hair, no children or even because she is diabetic. But to say she is awful at her job is pushing it some. But each to their own I guess.
    I thought she was ok as Home Secretary as it happens and was brave when she stood in front of the Police Federation making clear there would be cuts. As PM she has been dire relying on meaningless soundbites,wanting to bring back grammar schools and hiding during the EU campaign and now during the election campaign. If that impresses you fill yer boots.

  24. #54

    Re: This Tory campaign

    It fills my boots much more than Corbyn, or a boot each of Farron, Corbyn and the SNP thats for sure.
    Who else would you have preferred as Tory Leader ?

  25. #55

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    It fills my boots much more than Corbyn, or a boot each of Farron, Corbyn and the SNP thats for sure.
    Who else would you have preferred as Tory Leader ?
    As with Labour the Tories are really short of talent. A younger Ken Clark would be fine but he was never going to be Tory leader because of his pro European views.Of the current crop I am struggling. Davis has some authority but lost out to Cameron in 2005. Beyond them Hammond is just about passable. I have no time for the right wing Brexiteers.
    If Clark had become leader I may even have thought the unthinkable and voted Tory. He did a damn good job as Chancellor and didn't get the credit for it.

  26. #56

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Easy there Princess you'll give yerself a coronary.
    eh?

  27. #57

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    It fills my boots much more than Corbyn, or a boot each of Farron, Corbyn and the SNP thats for sure.
    Who else would you have preferred as Tory Leader ?
    How many feet do you have?

  28. #58

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    How many feet do you have?
    A third leg?

  29. #59

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Face facts boys and admit it - you have a passionate hatred for anyone who is a conservative or anyone who has voted conservative. You hated Thatcher, you hated Major, you despised Cameron and Osbourne, and now you turn all your bile against May. In reality though it wouldn't matter who was elected Tory Leader you would hate them to.

    Mother fecking Theresa could have a blue rosette on and you would no doubt act the same way. No problem though lads - this is only a Cardiff City Message Board afterall
    I didn't mind Major. I'd prefer him Clarke and hesletine then may Davies, Gove and thatbfat blomde prick who doesn't deserve anything more then an insulting name.

  30. #60

    Re: This Tory campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    As with Labour the Tories are really short of talent. A younger Ken Clark would be fine but he was never going to be Tory leader because of his pro European views.Of the current crop I am struggling. Davis has some authority but lost out to Cameron in 2005. Beyond them Hammond is just about passable. I have no time for the right wing Brexiteers.
    If Clark had become leader I may even have thought the unthinkable and voted Tory. He did a damn good job as Chancellor and didn't get the credit for it.
    You'd want a young Ken Clark to be leader of the conservatives and in charge of Brexit talks - that's a good one that

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