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Thread: Speeding fine conundrum ?

  1. #61

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I am pretty sure I can prove that it wasn"t me driving the car for the first offence when I was away in the camper as my wife was with me.
    I am not sure if I used a card whilst away as we usually take all our food & drink with us & take enough cash with us to pay for anything whilst we are away such as meals out, milk, newspapers etc but she will vouch for me.
    The second offence I was home on my own as my wife was out for the day.
    I have just checked my home insurance & it says
    "Legal Expenses cover offers up to 50,000 in costs to pursue your legal rights arising from a range of circumstances including personal injury, employment, the purchase or sale of goods or services and damage, nuisance or trespass to your property. It also provides access to a 24/7 legal advice helpline for you and your family on any personal legal matter.
    This cover is automatically included in your Home Insurance policy."
    So I will ring them in the morning & see if they can do anything or give me any advice.
    Just so that people understand how easy cloning is & how difficult it is to prove, this is all that needs to be done.
    Have a popular car, see a similar colour & model (it dosen"t have to be the same colour, year etc), go online & get a set of plates made for the reg you have seen for 17 (no V5 or other documentation needed), fit them to your car & then speed through every speed camera you see, red light, park on double yellow lines etc.
    All the fines will be sent to the registered owner, which is not you, job done !
    evidence comes in many forms. if you were in a camper then did you visit a campsite, in which case there may be a log book with your signature on it. you can then prove where you were and that you were in a camper van. if you were in a camper not in your house then you couldn't possibly know who took your car without your permission.

    for the second part if you were at home did you use the internet, phone, take a call, receive a package? anything which shows that you were at home can be used as evidence that you were not driving.

    you do need to report a crime to the police, if someone has taken your car without your permission. I would also seek legal advice as the system is stacked against you.

  2. #62
    International TH63's Avatar
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    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    I think TISS is spot on. I know a solicitor isn't cheap, but neither are speeding fines these days, then there's the points and the impact on your insurance, you may even have difficulty GETTING insurance.

    Worth an initial appointment at least to fully understand your options.

  3. #63

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Don't forget to include a Daily Newspaper in your photo of the number plate change. Digital Date stamps can be faked but the daily paper in the photo is still reliable evidence.

  4. #64

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    The original poster sounds like a rotter to me. And if there's one thing worse than a rotter it's a tightfisted rotter. In the unlikely event it wasn't him tearing around the streets at breakneck speed, he should content himself with the knowledge that in paying the fines he's helping to lower the country's annual deficit.

    But seriously, having your number plate cloned could result in a driving ban in next to no time plus a court appearance should the phantom driver reach crazy speeds.

  5. #65

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    I would go as far as saying you would like to report two crimes
    I quite like this idea of reporting two crimes. Would the Police be prepared to log them as crimes I wonder.

  6. #66

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    I have today fitted new plates to my car (ordered yesterday arrived today) with a Welsh flag on the left hand side & taken a photograph of the plates on the car with today"s Echo at the side of the plate for date confirmation.
    I have sent my V5 in to the DVLA with a covering letter stating that I want a new registration as I believe my car has been cloned.
    I have returned the first NIP (speeding fine) signed & dated but with no information filled in on it with a covering letter stating that I was on holiday at the time of the alleged offence, my wife will confirm that, that my car was on drive, that to the best of my knowledge no one drove the car & that I believe the car in their picture is a clone.
    I have also told them that I have received another ticket that I believe is down to a clone of my car & that I have applied to the DVLA to have a new registration issued due to my concerns.
    I will now wait & see what their reply is.

  7. #67

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I have today fitted new plates to my car (ordered yesterday arrived today) with a Welsh flag on the left hand side & taken a photograph of the plates on the car with today"s Echo at the side of the plate for date confirmation.
    I have sent my V5 in to the DVLA with a covering letter stating that I want a new registration as I believe my car has been cloned.
    I have returned the first NIP (speeding fine) signed & dated but with no information filled in on it with a covering letter stating that I was on holiday at the time of the alleged offence, my wife will confirm that, that my car was on drive, that to the best of my knowledge no one drove the car & that I believe the car in their picture is a clone.
    I have also told them that I have received another ticket that I believe is down to a clone of my car & that I have applied to the DVLA to have a new registration issued due to my concerns.
    I will now wait & see what their reply is.
    I think thats a good response. Let us know how you get on and good luck

  8. #68

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    I think thats a good response. Let us know how you get on and good luck
    In the meantime​ you should put the old number plate back on and get a few more speeding tickets, just to seal the deal.

  9. #69
    First Team El Gwapo's Avatar
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    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I have today fitted new plates to my car (ordered yesterday arrived today) with a Welsh flag on the left hand side & taken a photograph of the plates on the car with today"s Echo at the side of the plate for date confirmation.
    I have sent my V5 in to the DVLA with a covering letter stating that I want a new registration as I believe my car has been cloned.
    I have returned the first NIP (speeding fine) signed & dated but with no information filled in on it with a covering letter stating that I was on holiday at the time of the alleged offence, my wife will confirm that, that my car was on drive, that to the best of my knowledge no one drove the car & that I believe the car in their picture is a clone.
    I have also told them that I have received another ticket that I believe is down to a clone of my car & that I have applied to the DVLA to have a new registration issued due to my concerns.
    I will now wait & see what their reply is.
    Keep us posted - interesting dilemma (but a worry for you no doubt)

  10. #70

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    In the meantime​ you should put the old number plate back on and get a few more speeding tickets, just to seal the deal.

  11. #71

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I have today fitted new plates to my car (ordered yesterday arrived today) with a Welsh flag on the left hand side & taken a photograph of the plates on the car with today"s Echo at the side of the plate for date confirmation.
    I have sent my V5 in to the DVLA with a covering letter stating that I want a new registration as I believe my car has been cloned.
    I have returned the first NIP (speeding fine) signed & dated but with no information filled in on it with a covering letter stating that I was on holiday at the time of the alleged offence, my wife will confirm that, that my car was on drive, that to the best of my knowledge no one drove the car & that I believe the car in their picture is a clone.
    I have also told them that I have received another ticket that I believe is down to a clone of my car & that I have applied to the DVLA to have a new registration issued due to my concerns.
    I will now wait & see what their reply is.
    Good on you for not rolling over and taking the fines when you weren't responsible for them.

    Ultimately they've now got a responsibility to investigate it - if they don't then you're well within your rights to refuse to acknowledge the charges.

  12. #72

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    I've nothing to add that will help solve the situation Headlight finds himself in, but will add the observation that it seems against all natural justice that he has to go to the sort of lengths he has done just to give himself a chance (and it's no more than that at this stage) of getting the fines overturned - people are presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt in this country, why should it be different in cases like this?

    Hope things get sorted out for you in the end .

  13. #73

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    The only possible difference I can see from the photo I have is that on my front plate the dealers name is below the reg where as there is nothing below the plate in the photo.
    However again this could just be how these photos come out (I have never seen one before) & could be due to flash/glare ?
    The colour of the car in the photo is slightly different to the colour of mine but again this could be due to light/flash/glare as the car is a dark brown metallic although to me it looks dark grey metallic & in the photo it looks a slightly lighter grey metallic.
    When number plates are issued , the name of the supplying garage or shop is put below the number plate . The supplying garage has to take a copy of the V5 and the log book . I would ask if you can have a better quality photo as the fact there doesn't appear to be a supplier on the speeding photos would show they were not yours . If you can prove you were camping that should be enough to clear your name .
    You can buy "show" plates on line . It is a way of getting round the number plate law.

    I had a similar experience with one of our courtesy cars where we hadn't registered someone driving it , as a limited company they couldn't issue points but they did hand out a whopping 700 fine .

  14. #74

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    If you report the incidents as crimes , you have a far better chance of anyone believing it isn't your car involved .
    If you were in fact driving the car and go down this road and it gets proved , you will go to prison unfortunately.

  15. #75

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    I forgot to mention that during my last call to the Safety Camera Unit I mentioned that the picture they had sent me was of a car that was a slightly different colour to mine & that the number plate did not have the dealers name under it as mine does.
    I asked if if I could email them pictures of my car to show what I meant.
    This I did & have got up this morning to find an email waiting from them that says that they cannot accept the photographs as due to the data protection act my email address must contain my full name ?
    I have 2 email addresses neither of which contains my full name as when I set them up my full name was already in use.
    I now have to either borrow or buy a camera & get pictures printed out & post them in.
    I included my full name, DOB & the fine reference number in the email so who do they think is emailing them other me ?
    How many peoples email address contains their full name ?
    More unnecessary awkwardness on their part to make things as difficult as possible as far as I am concerned.

  16. #76

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock View Post
    If you report the incidents as crimes , you have a far better chance of anyone believing it isn't your car involved .
    If you were in fact driving the car and go down this road and it gets proved , you will go to prison unfortunately.
    I was not driving the car, the 2 family members who theoretically could have got hold of my keys swear they did not drive it, & as far as I am concerned the car was on the drive at the time of both incidents.
    I will contact the police today & see if I can report the 2 incidents as crimes although how I would do that I do not know as the car has not been stolen & has been in my possession the entire time ?
    The fact that I ordered (& received within 24 hours) new number plates online without any documentation proves that anyone can get number plates made up to clone a car if they want to.

  17. #77

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    Don't forget to include a Daily Newspaper in your photo of the number plate change. Digital Date stamps can be faked but the daily paper in the photo is still reliable evidence.
    And a shit casio telling the time.

  18. #78

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    Don't forget to include a Daily Newspaper in your photo of the number plate change. Digital Date stamps can be faked but the daily paper in the photo is still reliable evidence.
    In these days of Photoshop, how does that work?

  19. #79

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I forgot to mention that during my last call to the Safety Camera Unit I mentioned that the picture they had sent me was of a car that was a slightly different colour to mine & that the number plate did not have the dealers name under it as mine does.
    I asked if if I could email them pictures of my car to show what I meant.
    This I did & have got up this morning to find an email waiting from them that says that they cannot accept the photographs as due to the data protection act my email address must contain my full name ?
    I have 2 email addresses neither of which contains my full name as when I set them up my full name was already in use.
    I now have to either borrow or buy a camera & get pictures printed out & post them in.
    I included my full name, DOB & the fine reference number in the email so who do they think is emailing them other me ?
    How many peoples email address contains their full name ?
    More unnecessary awkwardness on their part to make things as difficult as possible as far as I am concerned.
    Not sure about why it's a data protection act thing, but it probably means they want a work email address that's likely to have your full name, not a hotmail/gmail. What it's got to do with the price of chips, I've no idea.

  20. #80

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    In these days of Photoshop, how does that work?
    In the old days you used to send yourself a copy (normally the music you created) via recorded deliver and sealed with a wax stamp and not open until the time to prove was necessary, or something like that!

  21. #81

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OurManFlint II View Post
    In the old days you used to send yourself a copy (normally the music you created) via recorded deliver and sealed with a wax stamp and not open until the time to prove was necessary, or something like that!
    You can still use Photoshop on it beforehand.

  22. #82
    International TH63's Avatar
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    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I forgot to mention that during my last call to the Safety Camera Unit I mentioned that the picture they had sent me was of a car that was a slightly different colour to mine & that the number plate did not have the dealers name under it as mine does.
    I asked if if I could email them pictures of my car to show what I meant.
    This I did & have got up this morning to find an email waiting from them that says that they cannot accept the photographs as due to the data protection act my email address must contain my full name ?
    I have 2 email addresses neither of which contains my full name as when I set them up my full name was already in use.
    I now have to either borrow or buy a camera & get pictures printed out & post them in.
    I included my full name, DOB & the fine reference number in the email so who do they think is emailing them other me ?
    How many peoples email address contains their full name ?
    More unnecessary awkwardness on their part to make things as difficult as possible as far as I am concerned.
    You don't need a camera, you should be able to use your phone and download the photos onto film at Boots

  23. #83

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    This thread has certainly thrown up some interesting and worrying stuff. Too late for the OP I know but maybe the moral of the story is to make sure that you have some unique marker (e.g. an unusual decal) next to the number plate so as to minimise the risk should someone decide to clone your registration number?

  24. #84

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I have been to my local police station who have told me it is nothing to do with them & I must discuss it with the safety camera unit that issued the fine.
    The keys to the car were in my house whilst I was away for the first offence & 2 family members have keys to my house but they both have cars, nicer cars than mine, & & both have assured me that they have not driven it.
    For the second offence I was in the house, the keys were in the house & the car was definitely on my drive.

    What di you tell them. Its definitely to do with them if the car has been cloned. Nothing to do with speed camera unit.

    you dont have a teenager who could of nicked it do you?

    Invest in a CCTV unit on your window to show the car there for future tickets.
    Last edited by Barry Dragon; 10-05-17 at 09:35.

  25. #85

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Strange that a driver with an impeccable record wasn't offered a speed awareness course too for such small margins over the limit

  26. #86

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    You can still use Photoshop on it beforehand.
    But the date it was posted is the key. I knew a musician that used to write for bigger artist and he sent his music to himself recorded delivery so any disputes to the ownership of the music he had the date it was posted and a recording/sheet music inside the envelope.

    Felt i was missing out on the biggest thread so wanted to contribute something

  27. #87

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhiw-Blue View Post
    Strange that a driver with an impeccable record wasn't offered a speed awareness course too for such small margins over the limit
    That only come after you plead guilty...

  28. #88

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I was not driving the car, the 2 family members who theoretically could have got hold of my keys swear they did not drive it, & as far as I am concerned the car was on the drive at the time of both incidents.
    I will contact the police today & see if I can report the 2 incidents as crimes although how I would do that I do not know as the car has not been stolen & has been in my possession the entire time ?
    The fact that I ordered (& received within 24 hours) new number plates online without any documentation proves that anyone can get number plates made up to clone a car if they want to.
    Reporting it will only strengthen your case.

    Have you gone to PEPIPOO for advice?

  29. #89

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    I can't see it matters what registration plates you have. Anyone can do that, have 2 sets of number plates. It takes 2 minutes to change them. Or even a couple of stickers on the plate. That won't get the poor bloke off the 'charge'.

  30. #90

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Well I have just returned home to find the photograph of the second offence waiting for me.
    This time the picture is of the back of my car, same as before showing my registration number but the car pictured does not have a tow bar & mine was purchased with a tow bar fitted.
    I have just contacted the dealer who is willing to confirm that my car was supplied with a tow bar fitted so I will be sending off a letter to the relevant Police force with a picture of the rear of my car showing the tow bar, no details filled in on the fine paperwork & a covering letter explaining that the car they have photographed is not mine.

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