If you report the incidents as crimes , you have a far better chance of anyone believing it isn't your car involved .
If you were in fact driving the car and go down this road and it gets proved , you will go to prison unfortunately.
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If you report the incidents as crimes , you have a far better chance of anyone believing it isn't your car involved .
If you were in fact driving the car and go down this road and it gets proved , you will go to prison unfortunately.
I was not driving the car, the 2 family members who theoretically could have got hold of my keys swear they did not drive it, & as far as I am concerned the car was on the drive at the time of both incidents.Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
I will contact the police today & see if I can report the 2 incidents as crimes although how I would do that I do not know as the car has not been stolen & has been in my possession the entire time ?
The fact that I ordered (& received within 24 hours) new number plates online without any documentation proves that anyone can get number plates made up to clone a car if they want to.
Thats ****ed up. I think the advice to see a lawyer is spot on - will cost but whats the alternative?
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/wa...fordable-help/
Do you have free legal coverage with your insurance? Are you part of a motoring organisation?
I'm not sure the free legal coverage would apply to a motor insurance conviction
I have legal coverage with my insurance but that only covers me if I have injured someone or someone else"s property or someone is suing me.
It cannot be used to defend myself against a speeding prosecution.
You say you know it's not your car?
In which case it's clearly a clone
So let it go to court they need to prove it's you and not a car that looks like yours.
If they still don't believe you, lawyer up at that stage
Unfortunately unlike criminal law where you are deemed to be innocent until the prosecution proves your guilt, in civil motoring law you are deemed to be guilty unless you can prove your innocence.
They don"t have to prove that it is me & my car, I have to prove that either it is not me, not my car or both.
The cloning article Alfonzo Perez linked to https://www.moneysupermarket.com/car...s-car-cloning/ shows the problems a genuine owner has in trying to prove if someone has had plates made up & fitted them to a similar car.
Also it shows how easy it is to do
This has all happened within 3 weeks of buying a new (to me car) & I genuinely do think that there is a clone driving around.
Following on from my post above, did you use a credit/debit card while you were away on the day of the ticket?Unfortunately unlike criminal law where you are deemed to be innocent until the prosecution proves your guilt, in civil motoring law you are deemed to be guilty unless you can prove your innocence.
They don"t have to prove that it is me & my car, I have to prove that either it is not me, not my car or both.
The cloning article Alfonzo Perez linked to https://www.moneysupermarket.com/car...s-car-cloning/ shows the problems a genuine owner has in trying to prove if someone has had plates made up & fitted them to a similar car.
Also it shows how easy it is to do
This has all happened within 3 weeks of buying a new (to me car) & I genuinely do think that there is a clone driving around.
Obviously it depends on how far from home you were in the camper but if you can prove that you were somewhere else then that would be enough proof that it wasn't you driving?
^^^ This
IMG_0299.GIF
From what you have said do you think that your car could have been cloned?
https://www.moneysupermarket.com/car...s-car-cloning/
I would report it to the police & ask them if this could have happened i.e. prompt them to investigate this as opposed to them maybe thinking that you are merely trying to wriggle out of a speeding fine. Maybe worth also speaking to the DVLA & asking a few questions there i.e. were there any issues with the car before you bought it.
If you have little/no joy then, as has already been suggested on here, I would seek immediate legal advice.
Actually I have read that article already.
Unfortunately every case I have read of of people who have done that have still been found guilty & ended up with more points a larger fine & court costs than a small fine & a few points if they had admitted guilt.
In that case I would seek immediate legal advice as you don't know how long this will go on for. I take it from above that you have checked your car insurance but have you also checked your home insurance to see it it includes legal expenses cover? If so the insurer will normally have a 24 hour helpline, maybe worth ringing them first to get some advice & also see if you are covered. If not well worth biting the bullet & contacting a solicitor - some may offer an initial free consultation.
Sounds like some super poltergeist at large
As far as the first one goes, surely phone records can prove you were in a different place at the time of the offence if you were on holiday?
Obviously that doesn't prove that your car was on the drive but it'll certainly show that you couldn't have been driving it, thus exonerating yourself of making a false statement etc.
I know that this is going to sound made up but I was in West Wales & had no phone coverage so did not use my phone.
Also even I proved that it was not me driving it does not alter the fact that in the eyes of the law although I must provide the details of the driver if it was not me.
I really don"t know what to do hence the thread.
But surely if you dont know then you can't tell them?
Unfortunately unlike criminal law where you are deemed to be innocent until the prosecution proves your guilt, in civil motoring law you are deemed to be guilty unless you can prove your innocence.
They don"t have to prove that it is me & my car, I have to prove that either it is not me, not my car or both.
The cloning article Alfonzo Perez linked to https://www.moneysupermarket.com/car...s-car-cloning/ shows the problems a genuine owner has in trying to prove if someone has had plates made up & fitted them to a similar car.
Also it shows how easy it is to do
This has all happened within 3 weeks of buying a new (to me car) & I genuinely do think that there is a clone driving around.
Really???
Change your number plates to ones with the Welsh flag on the side or something similar, notify whoever needs to know and wait for the next fine to hit the doormat. If you've had two you're gonna get three!
Yes providing evidence it wasn't you driving the car is the first step. Do you live with anyone who would verify your whereabouts?
Also the dealer's name not being under the reg number on the photo needs exploring. If its not shown in the second photo you may have something solid to challenge with.
Would the dealership be worth contacting?Ask them to check the photos against the car.
I was going to suggest checking bank statements for the first 'offence' that could at least prove you were in a completely different location at that time. The Camera people won't be interested but it may be admissable in court and can at least back you against a claim that you were obstructing the legal process.
As said by RhiwBlue - I'd also put something on your vehicle that makes it clearly stand out from front and back and get date stamped photos when that's being done to use against any future NIPs.
I am pretty sure I can prove that it wasn"t me driving the car for the first offence when I was away in the camper as my wife was with me.
I am not sure if I used a card whilst away as we usually take all our food & drink with us & take enough cash with us to pay for anything whilst we are away such as meals out, milk, newspapers etc but she will vouch for me.
The second offence I was home on my own as my wife was out for the day.
I have just checked my home insurance & it says
"Legal Expenses cover offers up to £50,000 in costs to pursue your legal rights arising from a range of circumstances including personal injury, employment, the purchase or sale of goods or services and damage, nuisance or trespass to your property. It also provides access to a 24/7 legal advice helpline for you and your family on any personal legal matter.
This cover is automatically included in your Home Insurance policy."
So I will ring them in the morning & see if they can do anything or give me any advice.
Just so that people understand how easy cloning is & how difficult it is to prove, this is all that needs to be done.
Have a popular car, see a similar colour & model (it dosen"t have to be the same colour, year etc), go online & get a set of plates made for the reg you have seen for £17 (no V5 or other documentation needed), fit them to your car & then speed through every speed camera you see, red light, park on double yellow lines etc.
All the fines will be sent to the registered owner, which is not you, job done !
evidence comes in many forms. if you were in a camper then did you visit a campsite, in which case there may be a log book with your signature on it. you can then prove where you were and that you were in a camper van. if you were in a camper not in your house then you couldn't possibly know who took your car without your permission.
for the second part if you were at home did you use the internet, phone, take a call, receive a package? anything which shows that you were at home can be used as evidence that you were not driving.
you do need to report a crime to the police, if someone has taken your car without your permission. I would also seek legal advice as the system is stacked against you.
I think TISS is spot on. I know a solicitor isn't cheap, but neither are speeding fines these days, then there's the points and the impact on your insurance, you may even have difficulty GETTING insurance.
Worth an initial appointment at least to fully understand your options.
Good Solicitor....get the 2 matters heard in the same Court on application. You will have to give evidence. The first more provable defence will cast doubt on the second. If you win...your costs can be claimed back from the Crown....if you lose then disaster as per previous posts.
It's so unfair. We clearly have a two-tier justice system in this country.
Justice for those who can afford it.
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