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Thread: Speeding fine conundrum ?

  1. #91

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    Well I have just returned home to find the photograph of the second offence waiting for me.
    This time the picture is of the back of my car, same as before showing my registration number but the car pictured does not have a tow bar & mine was purchased with a tow bar fitted.
    I have just contacted the dealer who is willing to confirm that my car was supplied with a tow bar fitted so I will be sending off a letter to the relevant Police force with a picture of the rear of my car showing the tow bar, no details filled in on the fine paperwork & a covering letter explaining that the car they have photographed is not mine.
    Nice one!
    That should be the clincher.
    If you report the same to the camera people and the police...
    They should be on the lookout for the offending car.

  2. #92

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    Well I have just returned home to find the photograph of the second offence waiting for me.
    This time the picture is of the back of my car, same as before showing my registration number but the car pictured does not have a tow bar & mine was purchased with a tow bar fitted.
    I have just contacted the dealer who is willing to confirm that my car was supplied with a tow bar fitted so I will be sending off a letter to the relevant Police force with a picture of the rear of my car showing the tow bar, no details filled in on the fine paperwork & a covering letter explaining that the car they have photographed is not mine.
    Hopefully that'll be enough for them and they'll accept that its another car.

    Be interesting to know how many people get caught like this and end up just paying the fine so it doesn't go any further.

  3. #93

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Just had a horrible thought...

    Check the serial number inside the engine compartment to make sure it's not YOUR car that is the clone.

  4. #94

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobh View Post
    Just had a horrible thought...

    Check the serial number inside the engine compartment to make sure it's not YOUR car that is the clone.
    Already done that, mine is the real car

  5. #95
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    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I forgot to mention that during my last call to the Safety Camera Unit I mentioned that the picture they had sent me was of a car that was a slightly different colour to mine & that the number plate did not have the dealers name under it as mine does.
    I asked if if I could email them pictures of my car to show what I meant.
    This I did & have got up this morning to find an email waiting from them that says that they cannot accept the photographs as due to the data protection act my email address must contain my full name ?
    I have 2 email addresses neither of which contains my full name as when I set them up my full name was already in use.
    I now have to either borrow or buy a camera & get pictures printed out & post them in.
    I included my full name, DOB & the fine reference number in the email so who do they think is emailing them other me ?
    How many peoples email address contains their full name ?
    More unnecessary awkwardness on their part to make things as difficult as possible as far as I am concerned.
    If all they want is an email address with your full name, you can just open a new account (Gmail, Yahoo etc).

  6. #96

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    TBH I am not opening a 3rd email account just because the safety camera unit are making things awkward.
    Since my last post I have spoken to 101 who have involved the police.
    I have been told to expect contact from the police within 24 hours.
    I have been told by 101 to write to the safety camera unit again informing them that the police are now involved & to put the prosecution on hold whilst the police investigate.
    They have given me a reference number to quote to the safety camera unit & have told me on no account to send back the notice of intended prosecution.
    Looks like several more visits to the local post office to send off recorded delivery letters.

  7. #97

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    TBH I am not opening a 3rd email account just because the safety camera unit are making things awkward.
    Since my last post I have spoken to 101 who have involved the police.
    I have been told to expect contact from the police within 24 hours.
    I have been told by 101 to write to the safety camera unit again informing them that the police are now involved & to put the prosecution on hold whilst the police investigate.
    They have given me a reference number to quote to the safety camera unit & have told me on no account to send back the notice of intended prosecution.
    Looks like several more visits to the local post office to send off recorded delivery letters.
    Glad you're not giving in to their bullying tactics, it's a terrible system with the main goal of raising revenue at the cost (and chagrin) of motorists.

  8. #98

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    I am still expecting problems based on everything I have read online, such as being told that I could easily have removed the tow bar, that the cameras are not designed to pick out anything other than the digits/letters on the number plate etc.
    At the end of the day though I have a number of different things, albeit individually small, that mount up to fair argument IMHO that the car being photographed is not mine.
    The crunch will come if the safety camera units refuse to accept my reasons for the car not being mine & proceed with prosecuting me in court.

  9. #99

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Interesting developments.Keep fighting this.

  10. #100

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I am still expecting problems based on everything I have read online, such as being told that I could easily have removed the tow bar, that the cameras are not designed to pick out anything other than the digits/letters on the number plate etc.
    At the end of the day though I have a number of different things, albeit individually small, that mount up to fair argument IMHO that the car being photographed is not mine.
    The crunch will come if the safety camera units refuse to accept my reasons for the car not being mine & proceed with prosecuting me in court.
    Well if it gets to court, at least you'll get to plead your case to an actual human rather than the circle-jerk system of responses that you're currently enduring.

  11. #101

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Well if it gets to court, at least you'll get to plead your case to an actual human rather than the circle-jerk system of responses that you're currently enduring.
    Don't ask Tandy to be your advocate

  12. #102

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    I am still expecting problems based on everything I have read online, such as being told that I could easily have removed the tow bar, that the cameras are not designed to pick out anything other than the digits/letters on the number plate etc.
    At the end of the day though I have a number of different things, albeit individually small, that mount up to fair argument IMHO that the car being photographed is not mine.
    The crunch will come if the safety camera units refuse to accept my reasons for the car not being mine & proceed with prosecuting me in court.
    How much did the camera pick out in your case? If there was a distinctive decal just to one side of the reg plate would it have picked it out? Just asking, because your dilemma has prompted me to try the decal idea.

    It is absurd that anyone would try to argue that you may have removed the tow bar before the alleged speeding took place and then put it back on afterwards! It's not exactly a 5 minute job and why would you do that?

  13. #103

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    What I meant is that the camera system is designed to get a clear picture of the number plate & not necessarily capture the driver as well, if the picture is of the front of the car.
    The first picture shows the whole of the front of my car but you cannot see anyone sat in the front of the car driving even though you can clearly see the steering wheel.
    It is as if the car is totally driverless.
    The other picture shows the whole of the back of my car.
    In both cases the registration on the number plate is crystal clear but there is no sign in either picture of the dealers details which were printed across the plate under the numbers & letters.
    I would have thought that as the pictures are so clear everything on the plate would show up, dealers details, side badge etc but I don"t know ?

  14. #104

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    What I meant is that the camera system is designed to get a clear picture of the number plate & not necessarily capture the driver as well, if the picture is of the front of the car.
    The first picture shows the whole of the front of my car but you cannot see anyone sat in the front of the car driving even though you can clearly see the steering wheel.
    It is as if the car is totally driverless.
    The other picture shows the whole of the back of my car.
    In both cases the registration on the number plate is crystal clear but there is no sign in either picture of the dealers details which were printed across the plate under the numbers & letters.
    I would have thought that as the pictures are so clear everything on the plate would show up, dealers details, side badge etc but I don"t know ?
    I think that is a fairly simple question to answer, have you put your predicament on pepipoo ?

    It would be a very clever camera that only picked up number plates and nothing else. They will pick up your reg number even if you have illegal "show" plates on your car.

  15. #105

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    What is "pepipoo" ?
    BTW I have been looking at my online banking this morning & I have a debit card transaction for the day of the offence from a cafe in St Davids.
    Again not a cast iron alibi on it"s own but evidence that on the day of the alleged first speeding offence I had lunch 130 miles away from where the supposed offence occurred.

  16. #106

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    OK I have found "pepipoo" online, registered & raised a thread.
    I filled in the "NIP Wizard" form & got the answer "If you can show that after reasonable diligence you have been unable to determine the identity of the driver, you will not be guilty of S172 failure to provide"
    I think that with all that I have done that I have indeed shown "reasonable diligence" in trying to determine who was driving.

  17. #107
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    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    I'm really keen to hear how this goes. It really angers me that on the one hand you get rich people able to afford the services of that Nick Freeman who would most likely get these "offences" thrown out, meanwhile the ordinary bloke in the street is denied justice.

  18. #108

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Agreed.
    This has been playing on my mind since I received the fine as although I know that I definitely have not committed the offence things that I have read online suggest that I could still be found guilty & that if I do not accept the fine I could end up with more points, a bigger fine & court costs than if I just pleaded guilty

  19. #109

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    OK I have found "pepipoo" online, registered & raised a thread.
    I filled in the "NIP Wizard" form & got the answer "If you can show that after reasonable diligence you have been unable to determine the identity of the driver, you will not be guilty of S172 failure to provide"
    I think that with all that I have done that I have indeed shown "reasonable diligence" in trying to determine who was driving.
    The people who post on there are ex police officers , judges, speeding experts.

    I took advice from a policeman , that I had a brilliant case, when two knob policemen came right up behind me one dark evening blinding me in a normal police car. He advised I fight the case as they had no way of measuring my speed , the story is of course a bit more involved. I sent my letter in pleading not guilty , went on pepipoo registered my case. My defense was torn to shreds , had to get a solicitor who cost a fortune, had a fine 5 times the usual FFP was lucky to escape with the usual 3 points.

  20. #110

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    What is "pepipoo" ?
    BTW I have been looking at my online banking this morning & I have a debit card transaction for the day of the offence from a cafe in St Davids.
    Again not a cast iron alibi on it"s own but evidence that on the day of the alleged first speeding offence I had lunch 130 miles away from where the supposed offence occurred.

    What was the time difference between your debit card transaction in St David's and the speeding offence?
    Just a thought.

  21. #111

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    Agreed.
    This has been playing on my mind since I received the fine as although I know that I definitely have not committed the offence things that I have read online suggest that I could still be found guilty & that if I do not accept the fine I could end up with more points, a bigger fine & court costs than if I just pleaded guilty
    Justice will prevail.













    Hopefully

  22. #112

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Alien View Post
    What was the time difference between your debit card transaction in St David's and the speeding offence?
    Just a thought.
    There is no time on my online bank statement just the date of the transaction but iirc it would have been about 12 noon so about 1 hour before the supposed offence.

  23. #113

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    If you accepted guilt you would also have increased insurance premiums for five years.

  24. #114

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Alien View Post
    What was the time difference between your debit card transaction in St David's and the speeding offence?
    Just a thought.
    They will just say he's given his card to someone else to use. It's only creditable evidence if it's prosecuting evidence. I kid you not.

  25. #115

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    UPDATE :
    After taking advice I have written to the safety camera unit stating that my car was locked on my drive with the keys locked in my house & that no one had access to the car at the time of the alleged offence & that I do not believe that the car in their photo is mine.
    I included photo"s of my car as proof.
    I did not return the S172 form as I cannot legally put any details down on it as I was not the driver & I do not know who the driver was as it was not my car.
    I have informed DVLA & the Police that I believe that my car has been cloned & included that information along with the ref numbers the Police gave me in the letter.
    I am now waiting for a reply from the safety camera unit.
    I will be surrendering my registration to the DVLA & getting a new one.

  26. #116

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Good for you. Keep us posted

  27. #117

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Well done. Don't let the bast Ards grind you down.

    Your username now seems ironic

  28. #118

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Good Solicitor....get the 2 matters heard in the same Court on application. You will have to give evidence. The first more provable defence will cast doubt on the second. If you win...your costs can be claimed back from the Crown....if you lose then disaster as per previous posts.

  29. #119
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    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengs View Post
    Good Solicitor....get the 2 matters heard in the same Court on application. You will have to give evidence. The first more provable defence will cast doubt on the second. If you win...your costs can be claimed back from the Crown....if you lose then disaster as per previous posts.
    It's so unfair. We clearly have a two-tier justice system in this country.

    Justice for those who can afford it.

  30. #120

    Re: Speeding fine conundrum ?

    I have today received a letter from the South Wales Safety Camera Unit confirming that my speeding prosecution has been cancelled !
    My car registration number has been put on the Police National Computer Automatic Number Recognition Database.
    I have today sent a copy of this letter to the Bristol Safety Camera Unit & hope to get that prosecution cancelled also.

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