The way to stop terrorism in this country

[Eric Cartman]

Col Richard Kemp (former head of Cobra) said the same sort of thing on the Nicky Campbell show the other day so I doubt it will be long before it is suggested, he went as far as saying..

“Deport People We Don't Like, Even When We Can't Prove They've Done Anything Wrong!”

This is exactly how these powers would end up being used.

If every Muslim knew someone who was locked up indefinitely for standing in the wrong place at the wrong time there would be a far greater number of people suceptable to radicalisation.

[goslow]

Remove islam,remove islamic terrorism..

[tigerbaybluebird]

Remove islam,remove islamic terrorism..

Well said, this sounds like a good plan Enoch

[Eric Cartman]

Well said, this sounds like a good plan Enoch

Remove sex, remove rape.

Feckin easy this.

[blue matt]

Not possible while we are in the EU

Not sure on the family idea, but, if you are found guilty of any terrorist act in anyway shape of form, even handing out literature ( which seemed to have still been happening only a few weeks ago in the market on Moss side ), these people who the secret service know about, bring them in, investigate them, kick down doors and find them, then lock them up, no communication with the outside world, they will be no harm to us

we have over 3000 on a UK watch list, we cannot watch them all while they are on the streets, it would be slightly easier if they were locked up

So you don't want to lock up everyone on the watchlist to make it easier to watch them then? I must be seeing things.

I would read it again

you might find that i said " if you are found guilty of any terrorist act in anyway shape of form, even handing out literature "

I also said that " we cannot watch them all while they are on the streets, it would be slightly easier if they were locked up " Of course it would be easier, even you must agree with that, but at no point did i say we should lock them up without being found guilty

[Eric Cartman]

I would read it again

you might find that i said " if you are found guilty of any terrorist act in anyway shape of form, even handing out literature "

I also said that " we cannot watch them all while they are on the streets, it would be slightly easier if they were locked up " Of course it would be easier, even you must agree with that, but at no point did i say we should lock them up without being found guilty

You want to though don't you?

Do you think these measures would lead to more or less radicalised young Muslims?

[life on mars]

Something has to be done and sadly the Liberal approach is not working.

We are not going to win this , we have to cut out the cancer before it spreads any further, we can't allow any more asylum seekers in .

If someone choses to go and fight for these radicals they stay there, there background in the UK is fully investigated and associates arrested on caution, will it radicalised, yep , but we're facing it anyway, they ain't going to become peace loving in the meantime.

If we know who they are now remove thier passports .

Oh and a complete ban on rucksacks and other any other bag at any events, it's not a picnic it's an event , just go and watch it .

[Eric Cartman]

Something has to be done and sadly the Liberal approach is not working.

We are not going to win this , we have to cut out the cancer before it spreads any further, we can't allow any more asylum seekers in .

If someone choses to go and fight for these radicals they stay there, there background in the UK is fully investigated and associates arrested on caution, will it radicalised, yep , but we're facing it anyway, they ain't going to become peace loving in the meantime.

If we know who they are now remove thier passports .

Oh and a complete ban on rucksacks and other any other bag at any events, it's not a picnic it's an event , just go and watch it .

Bags are checked when you go in at most events. How would this work? No bags anywhere near? Won't 'they' just target somewhere you cant search all bags like a train station?

What exactly is 'the liberal approach'? That might come across as flippant but I am struggling to see anything overly 'liberal' about our approach towards terrorism as a country (and rightly so).

The government have already said they have no idea how many UK citizens might have been to Syria and other countries where IS are active. I think most people who travel there go via Turkey. British nationals made 1.6 million visits to Turkey in 2016, sounds like hundreds of thousands of passports to tear up.

I am not against a tougher approach per se but little of what I have read on here in the last few days is possible and when it does pass that test it is usually bonkers and would only serve to increase the problems we see.

[blue matt]

What exactly is 'the liberal approach'? That might come across as flippant but I am struggling to see anything overly 'liberal' about our approach towards terrorism as a country (and rightly so).

Liberal approach, well for me it is people who the Secret service know will try and commit a terrorist attack / support in an attack / raise funds for a terror group / radicalise others / , for me it is pretty liberal to allow them to walk our streets / rise our trains etc etc, now thats pretty Liberal

UK citizens might have been to Syria and other countries where IS are active. I think most people who travel there go via Turkey. British nationals made 1.6 million visits to Turkey in 2016, sounds like hundreds of thousands of passports to tear up.

I am not against a tougher approach per se but little of what I have read on here in the last few days is possible and when it does pass that test it is usually bonkers and would only serve to increase the problems we see.

How many of these 1.6 Million are on a terror watch list ? ? ? lets look at them, its a start, or have they all gone to Syria to " study the Quran " ? ??

[Eric Cartman]

Liberal approach, well for me it is people who the Secret service know will try and commit a terrorist attack / support in an attack / raise funds for a terror group / radicalise others / , for me it is pretty liberal to allow them to walk our streets / rise our trains etc etc, now thats pretty Liberal

That is quite an accusation and a damning judgement of our intelligence service.

Do you think the intelligence agencies are similarly 'liberal' in their approach in America or should we look to copy them?

[life on mars]

Bags are checked when you go in at most events. How would this work? No bags anywhere near? Won't 'they' just target somewhere you cant search all bags like a train station?

What exactly is 'the liberal approach'? That might come across as flippant but I am struggling to see anything overly 'liberal' about our approach towards terrorism as a country (and rightly so).

The government have already said they have no idea how many UK citizens might have been to Syria and other countries where IS are active. I think most people who travel there go via Turkey. British nationals made 1.6 million visits to Turkey in 2016, sounds like hundreds of thousands of passports to tear up.

I am not against a tougher approach per se but little of what I have read on here in the last few days is possible and when it does pass that test it is usually bonkers and would only serve to increase the problems we see.

Blue Matt has replied on a few points , as for bags, they are holding device , so lets take that option away from events, which have mass impact risks ,remove half hearted bag searches by half-hearted security people,
you simply cannot attend an event with a bag , and why would you anyway ?? and separateexit and entry points , this may help in some way to make our world safer ,doing nothing is no longer an option .

[Eric Cartman]

How many of these 1.6 Million are on a terror watch list ? ? ? lets look at them, its a start, or have they all gone to Syria to " study the Quran " ? ??

I would imagine they are 'looking at' anyone who has travelled to Turkey and is on any kind of watch list. Do you think they aren't doing this?

[Eric Cartman]

Blue Matt has replied on a few points , as for bags, they are holding device , so lets take that option away from events, which have mass impact risks ,remove half hearted bag searches by half-hearted security people,
you simply cannot attend an event with a bag , and why would you anyway ?? and separateexit and entry points , this may help in some way to make our world safer ,doing nothing is no longer an option .

I was thinking about exactly this. I go to Lords every year with my dad, there are bag searches and body searches (mostly for alcohol mind). There are a few points outside of the ground where someone could set off a bomb and kill 25+ people easily. Have we reached the point where you would want to set up a perimeter around any event and allow no bags within say, 1 mile, of the venue? Is this practical?

No bags at the event wouldn't have saved anyone last Monday, the guy wasn't in the arena.

[life on mars]

I was thinking about exactly this. I go to Lords every year with my dad, there are bag searches and body searches (mostly for alcohol mind). There are a few points outside of the ground where someone could set off a bomb and kill 25+ people easily. Have we reached the point where you would want to set up a perimeter around any event and allow no bags within say, 1 mile, of the venue? Is this practical?

No bags at the event wouldn't have saved anyone last Monday, the guy wasn't in the arena.

It would fail if you had a system that stopped non ticket holders in, yes build perimeter fences and seperate exits and entries with scanner detection as you do at airports ,we have to do something, this is our children's children futures ,they despise ou western society and specifically the liberation of women , this is not about foregin policy, they want wreck ouf society , and cause total chaos, we have to be smart .

[Eric Cartman]

It would fail if you had a system that stopped non ticket holders in, yes build perimeter fences and seperate exits and entries with scanner detection as you do at airports ,we have to do something, this is our children's children futures ,they despise ou western society and specifically the liberation of women , this is not about foregin policy, they want wreck ouf society , and cause total chaos, we have to be smart .

I don't know how much clearer I can make this. I am talking about crowds outside the venue, as you see at every concert and large sporting event. There was security on Monday, this bomb went off in the foyer outside the ticket process.

So I will ask again, you are for some kind of exclusion zone around any event? 1 mile? Where no one is allowed a bag. What about, for example, Oxford Street or Leicester Square on an evening or weekend? No bags there too?

I just don't see how this is possible.

[blue matt]

That is quite an accusation and a damning judgement of our intelligence service.

Do you think the intelligence agencies are similarly 'liberal' in their approach in America or should we look to copy them?

quite an accusation and a damning judgement of our intelligence service ? ? you must be seeing things again

Not really, just the way our country is, or maybe its Europe, we will see soon enough, from what i have seen on the news ( and specials ) the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) doesnt help us alot

We know our intelligence do a great job, I bet its a very frustrating job, they have a massive list with people they know have the know how / will to commit a terrorist attack / support in an attack / raise funds for a terror group / radicalise others, yet still have to sit and watch them, maybe is the Security services and police were given a free'er reign then they could do more

as for America, I know they use different methods, does it work better ? ? not being in the field, i couldnt really tell

[blue matt]

I don't know how much clearer I can make this. I am talking about crowds outside the venue, as you see at every concert and large sporting event. There was security on Monday, this bomb went off in the foyer outside the ticket process.
.

reports on the news, that people walked into the arena with NO bag check, Nothing at all, these were from people who were at the gig

[Eric Cartman]

reports on the news, that people walked into the arena with NO bag check, Nothing at all, these were from people who were at the gig

My point was that Manchester would have have happened bag search or no bag search. Every event has crowded areas outside the secure zone so LOM's points about bag searches were redundant unless we decide to just ban people carrying bags in crowded places.

[lardy]

Remove bags remove terrorism

[Eric Cartman]

quite an accusation and a damning judgement of our intelligence service ? ? you must be seeing things again

Not really, just the way our country is, or maybe its Europe, we will see soon enough, from what i have seen on the news ( and specials ) the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) doesnt help us alot

We know our intelligence do a great job, I bet its a very frustrating job, they have a massive list with people they know have the know how / will to commit a terrorist attack / support in an attack / raise funds for a terror group / radicalise others, yet still have to sit and watch them, maybe is the Security services and police were given a free'er reign then they could do more

as for America, I know they use different methods, does it work better ? ? not being in the field, i couldnt really tell

Which bits of the ehrc would you like to see changed to help the Intelligence services do a better job of protecting the country? What would you like them to be able to do?

Rather than being inhibited by some liberal agenda they are probably prevent from doing more because they aren't funded well enough. Makes me wonder a little bit whether trident is worth it right now.

I ask about America because Omar Mateen was known to authorities in America and was investigated for connections to terrorism.

More information about these watchlists would be useful. How often are these people later found to have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism? I would imagine quite often they are associates who are in no way connected. I lived with a guy at uni for 2 years, we later found out that for 4 years he had been stealing thousands of pounds from his employer. None of us had a clue until we randomly searched his name on the internet.

[life on mars]

I don't know how much clearer I can make this. I am talking about crowds outside the venue, as you see at every concert and large sporting event. There was security on Monday, this bomb went off in the foyer outside the ticket process.

So I will ask again, you are for some kind of exclusion zone around any event? 1 mile? Where no one is allowed a bag. What about, for example, Oxford Street or Leicester Square on an evening or weekend? No bags there too?

I just don't see how this is possible.

Sorry fell asleep before replying of course you could not prepare an exclusion zone around places like Oxford Street ,thats not what's being discussed .

My point and apologies for not being clearer , you could at the larger events, that attract the larger crowds, as its the impact they are looking for .

Take the venues in our own city and then consider could you cordoned them off with a perimeter zone ,I think you could, not perfect but doable ,at least it provides some protection ::

Motorpoint.
SWALEC Stadium.
Principality Stadium.
Cardiff City Stadium .
Millennium Centre.

This is about doing something .

I'm suprised you've not added some ideas into the discussion .

My post is attempting to simply stimulate debate and suggest we should do something to protect the innocent ,who in the main are families going to these large events , and large events could be better controlled than they are now , as with politicians and critics , it's easy to pick holes , but harder to come up with answers and workable solutions .

In my humble view you could protect larger groups of people better at larger events , by cordening off streets and venue areas, having designated pick up points, secured seperate ,various exits , scanning points, not perfect but something better than exists now.

Oh and no bags at venues for attendees or pick ups.

With that in place , will it happens again I guess so ,but with most attacks they seem to move onto something different we have not thought of , once it's been tried a few times .

[blue matt]

i wonder if we did more than just " watch " them

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...r-attack-in-UK

[blue matt]

Which bits of the ehrc would you like to see changed to help the Intelligence services do a better job of protecting the country? What would you like them to be able to do?

Rather than being inhibited by some liberal agenda they are probably prevent from doing more because they aren't funded well enough. Makes me wonder a little bit whether trident is worth it right now.

I ask about America because Omar Mateen was known to authorities in America and was investigated for connections to terrorism.

.

personally, i am just going on " experts " i have seen on the news and " special news programs " about the ECHR, numerous reports have said it hinders the secret service and out ability to deal with the threats, i know they are experts and all that, maybe you know more then them ? ? i certainly dont

I guess Omar is the Pulse gunman ? ? ? i could google it, but on my touchpad and cannot be bothered to open another tab
Of course mistakes will be made, but in the US ( and over here ) for every Omar mistake, i bet they have thwarted many more attacks, we know one will always get through

[blue matt]

Bags are checked when you go in at most events. How would this work? No bags anywhere near? Won't 'they' just target somewhere you cant search all bags like a train station?

What exactly is 'the liberal approach'? That might come across as flippant but I am struggling to see anything overly 'liberal' about our approach towards terrorism as a country (and rightly so).

The government have already said they have no idea how many UK citizens might have been to Syria and other countries where IS are active. I think most people who travel there go via Turkey. British nationals made 1.6 million visits to Turkey in 2016, sounds like hundreds of thousands of passports to tear up.

I am not against a tougher approach per se but little of what I have read on here in the last few days is possible and when it does pass that test it is usually bonkers and would only serve to increase the problems we see.

I would imagine they are 'looking at' anyone who has travelled to Turkey and is on any kind of watch list. Do you think they aren't doing this?

come on, you used the figure 1.6 million to prove its a massive number and it is unfeasible to pull them in for questioning, of course they cannot for 1.6 million, but i wonder what very small % of that 1.6 mil is on a watch list, they could of course pull them in and see what they have been upto

[Eric Cartman]

Sorry fell asleep before replying of course you could not prepare an exclusion zone around places like Oxford Street ,thats not what's being discussed .

My point and apologies for not being clearer , you could at the larger events, that attract the larger crowds, as its the impact they are looking for .

Take the venues in our own city and then consider could you cordoned them off with a perimeter zone ,I think you could, not perfect but doable ,at least it provides some protection ::

Motorpoint.
SWALEC Stadium.
Principality Stadium.
Cardiff City Stadium .
Millennium Centre.

This is about doing something .

I'm suprised you've not added some ideas into the discussion .

My post is attempting to simply stimulate debate and suggest we should do something to protect the innocent ,who in the main are families going to these large events , and large events could be better controlled than they are now , as with politicians and critics , it's easy to pick holes , but harder to come up with answers and workable solutions .

In my humble view you could protect larger groups of people better at larger events , by cordening off streets and venue areas, having designated pick up points, secured seperate ,various exits , scanning points, not perfect but something better than exists now.

Oh and no bags at venues for attendees or pick ups.

With that in place , will it happens again I guess so ,but with most attacks they seem to move onto something different we have not thought of , once it's been tried a few times .

My proposed solution is that we carry on as normal. That again might sound flippant but I would rather take my chances than spend my life walking through scanners and having sniffer dogs and police with automatic guns lining up outside events.

Of course peoples behaviour will change with regards to their kids. I have six nieces and nephews and I very much doubt we will be taking them to many events because their parents will decide it isn't worth the risk.